The left believes in government. The right believes in freedom.

[S.J.]

You really need to ENGAGE in debate and stuff your haughty 'holier than thou' narcissism.

I'm more than happy to, when the debate is with someone who can be intellectually honest.

You folks represent maybe 20% of the population, max, yet you're a big part of the problem.

The rest of us have to deal with the effects of your behaviors.

.

My behavior? Heaven forbid I exercise my first amendment rights. I will ALWAYS stick up for people who are being swindled, trampled and crushed by plutocrats, aristocrats, Wall Street thieves, insurance cartels and any other group of barracudas who try to feed on We, the People.

Except if that swindler happens to be Obama, or any of his suck-ups in Congress.

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

We don't live in Europe or Australia. And what a PARTY calls itself is irrelevant. Liberals and conservatives exist is all nations. And the differences have existed since man started walking upright.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

Liberals oppose the right to self-defense, the right to religious liberty, the right to start your own business, the right to open a coal mine, the right to drill for oil, etc. etc. etc. You're not standing up for the little guy when you're passing massive taxes on businesses while giving subsidies to big solar. And what about the freedom to choose your healthcare?

Liberalism in America was taken over by the progressives, particularly the two Roosevelts, William Jennings Bryan, and Woodrow Wilson. I'm a liberal in the vein of Grover Cleveland, Abraham Lincoln, and Thomas Jefferson.

Are you sure?

Yes. Slavery is wrong and deprives other people of their natural rights. While I think Lincoln did things that increased government too much, it was largely justifiable to win the Civil War. With regards to TJ, he believed in limited government and American values. He was a pragmatist, though, who bought Louisiana and fought against the Barbary pirates.

 

[American4Americ]

Liberals oppose the right to self-defense, the right to religious liberty, the right to start your own business, the right to open a coal mine, the right to drill for oil, etc. etc. etc. You're not standing up for the little guy when you're passing massive taxes on businesses while giving subsidies to big solar. And what about the freedom to choose your healthcare?

Liberalism in America was taken over by the progressives, particularly the two Roosevelts, William Jennings Bryan, and Woodrow Wilson. I'm a liberal in the vein of Grover Cleveland, Abraham Lincoln, and Thomas Jefferson.

Are you sure?

Yes. Slavery is wrong and deprives other people of their natural rights. While I think Lincoln did things that increased government too much, it was largely justifiable to win the Civil War. With regards to TJ, he believed in limited government and American values. He was a pragmatist, though, who bought Louisiana and fought against the Barbary pirates.

Apparently tyranny, and unconstitutional acts are justifiable. Are you now going to tell me that TJ's nonexistent economic policy was justifiable too? Or that his "American Values" of pigeonholing Americans into living an agricultural lifestyle is somehow compatible with current day patriotism?

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

Are you sure?

Yes. Slavery is wrong and deprives other people of their natural rights. While I think Lincoln did things that increased government too much, it was largely justifiable to win the Civil War. With regards to TJ, he believed in limited government and American values. He was a pragmatist, though, who bought Louisiana and fought against the Barbary pirates.

Apparently tyranny, and unconstitutional acts are justifiable. Are you now going to tell me that TJ's nonexistent economic policy was justifiable too? Or that his "American Values" of pigeonholing Americans into living an agricultural lifestyle is somehow compatible with current day patriotism?

Here's the difference. Back then, pragmatism might mean the government spending 2.8% of GDP instead of 2.5%. Now, all governments suck up 40% of the GDP every year. TJ turned around and supported industry when he realized that agriculture couldn't be the most important thing. Look, Obama and his liberal allies want massive government, socialized medicine, and a government that controls us instead of the other way around. No way Lincoln or Jefferson would support Obama's tyrannical, despotic actions. Lincoln fought against slavery. Obama wants to enslave people to perpetual government dependency.

 

[ladythundermous]

(Hoossier4Freedom) Business makes mistakes with the environment, but the people of West Virginia are infinitely better off with open coal mines than closed ones. The fact is that safer forms of energy, like natural gas, are being blocked by anti-fracking liberals despite their net effect of lowering CO2 emissions. And liberals are the ones blocking the opening of clean coal plants.

Look, I'm not saying free enterprise is perfect. But it's a whole lot better than Obama's top-down, trickle-up poverty approach that's bankrupting our country.
__________________
My values are simple: we need to stop abrogating individual liberty in order to give more power to the state. Let's stop assuming that government serves "We the People" in its action. Truth is, the government so often fails in basic endeavors like creating a website. Individual initiative and free enterprise will win over central planning any day. To those who insist that more government is the solution, I implore them to look at this: Index of Economic Freedom: Promoting Economic Opportunity and Prosperity by Country[/url]
(I hope I got your username right..... kinda new using this website.....)

HELLO!???! WAKE UP PEOPLES! THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT A GOVERNMENT AS BIG AS OURS IS, IS GOOD; THEN I CHALLENGE YOU, I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU, TO REMEMBER AND RESEARCH THE QUOTES STATED, AND DEEPLY STUDY THE DOCUMENTS CREATED, AND THE HISTORY THAT MOTIVATED SOME VERY COURAGEOUS, DETERMINED, CREATIVE AND DEDICATED MEN; WHO ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BIRTH OF OUR COUNTRY AND THE BELIEF THAT FREEDOM CAN EXIST! IF YOU BELIEVE THAT "OUR" CURRENT GOVT. RULE IS A GOOD THING 4 "WE THE PEOPLE"... THEN YOU OBVIOUSLY SLEPT THRU AMERICAN HISTORY, AND NEED TO LEARN SOME VERY IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT WHAT BEING A TRUE AMERICAN....A PATRIOT, REALLY MEANS! I read something recently, don't remember who stated it, but it was very profound! ..... "When someone says they are a patriot, then they are considered by our govt. to be a potential terrorist against the US govt." WTF??? BIG GOVT IS, AND HISTORY PROVES IT TO BE SO, IS AN ENTITY OF ITS OWN & FAILS TO BE 'OF' AND 'FOR' THE PEOPLE IT IS OVER! REMEMBER THE MAGNA CARTA, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, THE CONSTITUTION, AND THE BASICS THAT OUR FOUNDATIONS ARE ABOUT! THE LACK OF AWARENESS AND KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS ARE A HUGE PART OF THE CURRENT SITUATIONS AFFECTING EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN OUR COUNTRY NOW!!

 

[American4Americ]

Yes. Slavery is wrong and deprives other people of their natural rights. While I think Lincoln did things that increased government too much, it was largely justifiable to win the Civil War. With regards to TJ, he believed in limited government and American values. He was a pragmatist, though, who bought Louisiana and fought against the Barbary pirates.

Apparently tyranny, and unconstitutional acts are justifiable. Are you now going to tell me that TJ's nonexistent economic policy was justifiable too? Or that his "American Values" of pigeonholing Americans into living an agricultural lifestyle is somehow compatible with current day patriotism?

Here's the difference. Back then, pragmatism might mean the government spending 2.8% of GDP instead of 2.5%. Now, all governments suck up 40% of the GDP every year. TJ turned around and supported industry when he realized that agriculture couldn't be the most important thing. Look, Obama and his liberal allies want massive government, socialized medicine, and a government that controls us instead of the other way around. No way Lincoln or Jefferson would support Obama's tyrannical, despotic actions. Lincoln fought against slavery. Obama wants to enslave people to perpetual government dependency.

Here is the REAL difference. Government back then meaning completely restraining your freedom like John Adams, or A. Lincoln. And what early America didn't have in sheer government size made up in massive trade destroying tariffs.

TJ also made a bunch of nonsensical trade embargoes.

 

[Moonglow]

Here's the simple difference between the left and the right on economic issues. They trust bigger government. We trust you. Liberals want to raise the minimum wage because they don't think you have the right to form your own contract with your employer. They passed social security/Medicare/Obamacare because they think that the government is better at spending your money than you are. Now, 1/3 to 1/2 of people's paychecks are going to Uncle Sam to pay for those who don't earn a paycheck. The left's core principles are rooted in the fact that they do not believe that people have a right to pursue their own happiness and follow their own hopes and dreams.

The right recognizes that there are natural differences in ability and effort and that to truly promote human happiness and dignity, we should give all the right to pursue their own course. We believe in free will, a free market, and a free people. So the next time you hear a leftist babbling about income inequality, remember that what those leftists really want to do is to take away your freedom.

In a right to work state you do not have the ability to negotiate a contract with your employer, you are given what they give you. If you believe in free market then don't try to take on a corporate giant, you will see what servitude of indebtedness it will bring you.
I am a liberal and I have never ask or taken away for anyone.

Income tax was created to make up the shortfall of federal revenue because of the coming of Prohibition.

 

[Bombur]

I don't believe in much other than the need to make sure markets are working the way they are meant to work and if they are not we should do what we can to fix them.

Blindly believing in government or freedom is stupid.

 

[KNB]

This is a job:

It was in fact one of the most important jobs in American history, if anyone bothers to review the facts. Who supports Americans' right to have this job? Conservatives think that "Marihuana" is a dangerous, evil narcotic that will destroy America, so they want the big government to kick in our front doors and shove guns to our heads because "you might commit a crime when you're high". Progressives know that "Marihuana" is one of the planet's most versatile natural resources and will make America stronger and more independent like it did during World War II (and every other war prior to the 1950s), and can possibly cure cancer.

Synthetic plastics and synthetic pharmaceuticals alike, along with fossil fuels for energy and forests for paper and lumber, will be replaced by industrial hemp, providing a more sustainable economy and environment, when America and the world are free to have this job again.

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

Apparently tyranny, and unconstitutional acts are justifiable. Are you now going to tell me that TJ's nonexistent economic policy was justifiable too? Or that his "American Values" of pigeonholing Americans into living an agricultural lifestyle is somehow compatible with current day patriotism?

Here's the difference. Back then, pragmatism might mean the government spending 2.8% of GDP instead of 2.5%. Now, all governments suck up 40% of the GDP every year. TJ turned around and supported industry when he realized that agriculture couldn't be the most important thing. Look, Obama and his liberal allies want massive government, socialized medicine, and a government that controls us instead of the other way around. No way Lincoln or Jefferson would support Obama's tyrannical, despotic actions. Lincoln fought against slavery. Obama wants to enslave people to perpetual government dependency.

Here is the REAL difference. Government back then meaning completely restraining your freedom like John Adams, or A. Lincoln. And what early America didn't have in sheer government size made up in massive trade destroying tariffs.

TJ also made a bunch of nonsensical trade embargoes.

I never said I supported Adams. I supported TJ against his oppression. That being said, the government was still small back then. Owning other people as your property is 100% wrong and anti-freedom, and not all of Lincoln's actions were good, but they were mostly necessary to preserve freedom for those who were considered property.

 

[S.J.]

This is a job:

It was in fact one of the most important jobs in American history, if anyone bothers to review the facts. Who supports Americans' right to have this job? Conservatives think that "Marihuana" is a dangerous, evil narcotic that will destroy America, so they want the big government to kick in our front doors and shove guns to our heads because "you might commit a crime when you're high". Progressives know that "Marihuana" is one of the planet's most versatile natural resources and will make America stronger and more independent like it did during World War II (and every other war prior to the 1950s), and can possibly cure cancer.

Synthetic plastics and synthetic pharmaceuticals alike, along with fossil fuels for energy and forests for paper and lumber, will be replaced by industrial hemp, providing a more sustainable economy and environment, when America and the world are free to have this job again.

Well, you're just flat out wrong about that. In fact, you have it completely backwards. Most of today's conservatives and nearly all libertarians want marijuana decriminalized and many want it legal. It's the so-called moderate (liberal) Republicans on the GOP side that want to keep it illegal. And the Democrats want to keep it illegal because it gives them more control over people, which is what they are all about. If what you say were true, why didn't the Democrats move to legalize it during the first two years of Obama's presidency, when they had full control of the government?

 

[Bombur]

This is a job:

It was in fact one of the most important jobs in American history, if anyone bothers to review the facts. Who supports Americans' right to have this job? Conservatives think that "Marihuana" is a dangerous, evil narcotic that will destroy America, so they want the big government to kick in our front doors and shove guns to our heads because "you might commit a crime when you're high". Progressives know that "Marihuana" is one of the planet's most versatile natural resources and will make America stronger and more independent like it did during World War II (and every other war prior to the 1950s), and can possibly cure cancer.

Synthetic plastics and synthetic pharmaceuticals alike, along with fossil fuels for energy and forests for paper and lumber, will be replaced by industrial hemp, providing a more sustainable economy and environment, when America and the world are free to have this job again.

Well, you're just flat out wrong about that. In fact, you have it completely backwards. Most of today's conservatives and nearly all libertarians want marijuana decriminalized and many want it legal. It's the so-called moderate (liberal) Republicans on the GOP side that want to keep it illegal. And the Democrats want to keep it illegal because it gives them more control over people, which is what they are all about. If what you say were true, why didn't the Democrats move to legalize it during the first two years of Obama's presidency, when they had full control of the government?

lol