The Jews and the Native Americans

[Coyote]

[


So the jews never lived there before 1948?

Who claimed that?

 

[Coyote]

So the jews never lived there before 1948?

No

I don't think history will support you on that....

 

[Coyote]

Anyone care to post archeology or real artifacts datelining who was there first?

It is irrelevant as to "who was there first". Chances are, there was yet another people earlier and more people later and those who are there now are not the same people that were there thousands of years ago but have been mixed with successive migrations.

It has no bearing on the issue but is a diversion.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Why don't you ask Tinmore directly rather than lumping him into "you Muslims"?

Ask him what?

PF is engaged in group think, as is the way of Muslims. Muslims do and think what the Clerics say.

What about you, would you agree to a treaty that Arab Muslims (which is what "Palestinians" are) get full rights in Israel - the day that Jews get full rights in Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia..

I mean, you want things to be "fair" right? You're not just seeking the conquest of Israel to drive the Infidels out, right?

{Saudi Arabia is a glaring example of religious apartheid. The religious institutions from government clerics to judges, to religious curricula, and all religious instructions in media are restricted to the Wahhabi understanding of Islam, adhered to by less than 40% of the population. The Saudi government communized Islam, through its monopoly of both religious thoughts and practice. Wahhabi Islam is imposed and enforced on all Saudis regardless of their religious orientations. The Wahhabi sect does not tolerate other religious or ideological beliefs, Muslim or not. Religious symbols by Muslims, Christians, Jews and other believers are all banned. The Saudi embassy in Washington is a living example of religious apartheid. In its 50 years, there has not been a single non-Sunni Muslim diplomat in the embassy. The branch of Imam Mohamed Bin Saud University in Fairfax, Virginia instructs its students that Shia Islam is a Jewish conspiracy.[22]}

Freedom of religion in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, but that's different because.... ALLAHU AKBAR...

 

[Michelle420]

[


So the jews never lived there before 1948?

Who claimed that?

I was asking a question.

I will be asking lots of them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

All lands belongs to the God
in the ancient time the Canaanies who are the Arabs live in this land and this written in their book, Jewish Book "Old Bible" ,, so historically this land belong to those who lived there for many years.

I see you refer to your god as "al-Ilah," or in Hebrew, "Ba'al."

Good for you, so many Muslims try and pretend Allah is the Hebrew/Christian god.

 

[Michelle420]

Anyone care to post archeology or real artifacts datelining who was there first?

It is irrelevant as to "who was there first". Chances are, there was yet another people earlier and more people later and those who are there now are not the same people that were there thousands of years ago but have been mixed with successive migrations.

It has no bearing on the issue but is a diversion.

It's irrelevant to you.

But I wanted to know, is that ok?

 

[Coyote]

[


So the jews never lived there before 1948?

Who claimed that?

Did I make the statement that someone said it ?


I was asking a question.

I wil be asking lots of them.

Well...considering it came out of the blue, non-sequitor so to speak, I kind of wondered...

It's a question that had no relevance to the post you were answering

 

[Michelle420]

Who claimed that?

Did I make the statement that someone said it ?


I was asking a question.

I wil be asking lots of them.

Well...considering it came out of the blue, non-sequitor so to speak, I kind of wondered...

It's a question that had no relevance to the post you were answering

Coyote, I am learning about the issue, I am going to ask a lot of questions.

If you find them irrelevant feel free not to respond.

I ask because I want to know each sides opinion instead of just reading wikipedia.

It is something I am interested in knowing , the personal viewpoints and opinions of each side.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Did I make the statement that someone said it ?


I was asking a question.

I wil be asking lots of them.

Well...considering it came out of the blue, non-sequitor so to speak, I kind of wondered...

It's a question that had no relevance to the post you were answering

Coyote, I am learning about the issue, I am going to ask a lot of questions.

If you find them irrelevant feel from not to respond.

I ask because I want to know each sides opinion instead of just reading wikipedia.

It is something I am interested in knowing , the personal viewpoints and opinions of each side.

OK, Hashem promised the land to Abraham. So the Jews (called the Hebrews at that time), conquered the land from the idol-worshipping Canaanites. David established a great kingdom there, and Solomon built the Temple. The wicked Romans destroyed the Temple in 70 AD, and drove the Jews out. For two thousand years, Jews experienced pogroms, blood libels, inquisitions, pogroms and the Holocaust. Meanwhile, the savage Arabs took over Israel and totally neglected the land, as Mark Twain attests to. In the 1800's the Jews finally returned and made the desert bloom.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Anyone care to post archeology or real artifacts datelining who was there first?

From an anthropological stand point, this is all absurd. The Arabs that we know now didn't migrate to the Middle East until the 2nd through 4th century AD. The Medes, Persians, Assyrians, Caucasians all, fought nearly perpetual war amongst themselves and the Greeks, until Rome marched in a defeated all of them. When Rome declined, the power vacuum allowed the North African people to invade in a very similar fashion as the Mexicans are doing to America. They squatted and interbred with the decimated indigenous populations and became the dominate ethnic group. Muhammad united them under the Cult of Islam, he and the Caliphs murdered virtually all remaining Caucasians.

Arabs are new comers to the Middle East.

On the other hand, the Ashkenazi Jews were not originally from the Middle East either. The original Hebrews were, but not that many of them survived. Most modern Jews descend from Ashkenazi stock.

Who was there first? People long since wiped out.

 

[Michelle420]

Anyone care to post archeology or real artifacts datelining who was there first?

From an anthropological stand point, this is all absurd. The Arabs that we know now didn't migrate to the Middle East until the 2nd through 4th century AD. The Medes, Persians, Assyrians, Caucasians all, fought nearly perpetual war amongst themselves and the Greeks, until Rome marched in a defeated all of them. When Rome declined, the power vacuum allowed the North African people to invade in a very similar fashion as the Mexicans are doing to America. They squatted and interbred with the decimated indigenous populations and became the dominate ethnic group. Muhammad united them under the Cult of Islam, he and the Caliphs murdered virtually all remaining Caucasians.

Arabs are new comers to the Middle East.

On the other hand, the Ashkenazi Jews were not originally from the Middle East either. The original Hebrews were, but not that many of them survived. Most modern Jews descend from Ashkenazi stock.

Who was there first? People long since wiped out.

So from that stand point nobody really has any "right" to the land.

So for either side to say so is moot.

However, in 1948 something changed and jews moved back in arabs didn't like it and our country supported it.

That about the gist of it?

 

[Michelle420]

For the Israeli's - it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home. For the Palestinians - it's about ending the occupation by a foreign power.

So one side it's religious reasons and the other side it's just wanting property rights were palestinians there first historically?

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

Only Palestine had Palestinians before 1948.

No.

You said they don't control it.

I have no idea.

I was just asking questions.

The whole thing seems so weird to me.

I was just trying to understand why it's such a big deal to give one strip of land to people other then muslims.

If that isn't the issue then tell me what the issue is from your point of view.

Ah, well that's the fallacy.

It's not a religious issue.

It's an issue regarding the rights of self determination for two groups of people: the Palestinians and the Israeli's.

The Israeli's have their strip and the Palestinians want their own strip. The argument is borders and how the two nations will interact to guarantee sovereignty and security.

Why is giving Palestinians a state such a big deal? Cause they are Muslim?

Actually, that is not what I said. "it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home"

Israeli's are a diverse people and many of them are quite secular. A big reason for them is to never again be a homeless people subject to another holocaust in a country where they are unwanted. For others, religious Zionism drives them to complain what was the Israel of thousands of years ago.

For the Palestinians - I did not state they were there "first" historically". In fact, none of those groups really "first" as they are now defined. The Jews were altered significantly by the diaspora, the Palestinians are comprised of many religions and a mixture of ethnic groups over successive migrations pf peoples. For the most part, the Jews and Palestinians are really the same people.

The Palestinians lost their lands to the Israeli occupation and there are many people still alive from that. For them - it IS about land and an end to foreign occupation.

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

By that logic, Israel is Palestinian.

France, Italy, Germany and Austria are all Swiss.

So the jews never lived there before 1948?

So the jews never lived there before 1948?

No

I don't think history will support you on that....

Anyone care to post archeology or real artifacts datelining who was there first?

It is irrelevant as to "who was there first". Chances are, there was yet another people earlier and more people later and those who are there now are not the same people that were there thousands of years ago but have been mixed with successive migrations.

It has no bearing on the issue but is a diversion.

Who claimed that?

Did I make the statement that someone said it ?


I was asking a question.

I wil be asking lots of them.

Well...considering it came out of the blue, non-sequitor so to speak, I kind of wondered...

It's a question that had no relevance to the post you were answering

Not exactly out of the blue either.

 

[Lipush]

Did I make the statement that someone said it ?


I was asking a question.

I wil be asking lots of them.

Well...considering it came out of the blue, non-sequitor so to speak, I kind of wondered...

It's a question that had no relevance to the post you were answering

Coyote, I am learning about the issue, I am going to ask a lot of questions.

If you find them irrelevant feel free not to respond.

I ask because I want to know each sides opinion instead of just reading wikipedia.

It is something I am interested in knowing , the personal viewpoints and opinions of each side.

What is exactly that you wish to know?

 

[Michelle420]

Well...considering it came out of the blue, non-sequitor so to speak, I kind of wondered...

It's a question that had no relevance to the post you were answering

Coyote, I am learning about the issue, I am going to ask a lot of questions.

If you find them irrelevant feel free not to respond.

I ask because I want to know each sides opinion instead of just reading wikipedia.

It is something I am interested in knowing , the personal viewpoints and opinions of each side.

What is exactly that you wish to know?

I've been posting questions for a few pages now go back a few and read them and respond if you desire to.



I wanted to know how this all began from each persons perspective and how it can be resolved from each persons perspective.

I ask more questions if someone answers something and adds information that makes me curious about their opinion.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I know, but I never once saw a pro-Palestinian here blame the Palestinians for ANYTHING concerning their issues

Oh, I don't know about that - they haven't done themselves any favors with civilian-targeted terrorism. They're pursuing a better route with the UN.

Not only terrorism, but refusing generous offers by Barak and Olmert, to keep this wound festering.

The only Zionist offers were offers demanding Palestinians surrender and give up their lands and legal rights.

 

[sealadaigh]

Anyone care to post archeology or real artifacts datelining who was there first?

From an anthropological stand point, this is all absurd. The Arabs that we know now didn't migrate to the Middle East until the 2nd through 4th century AD. The Medes, Persians, Assyrians, Caucasians all, fought nearly perpetual war amongst themselves and the Greeks, until Rome marched in a defeated all of them. When Rome declined, the power vacuum allowed the North African people to invade in a very similar fashion as the Mexicans are doing to America. They squatted and interbred with the decimated indigenous populations and became the dominate ethnic group. Muhammad united them under the Cult of Islam, he and the Caliphs murdered virtually all remaining Caucasians.

Arabs are new comers to the Middle East.

On the other hand, the Ashkenazi Jews were not originally from the Middle East either. The original Hebrews were, but not that many of them survived. Most modern Jews descend from Ashkenazi stock.

Who was there first? People long since wiped out.

i do not think it accurate to label a people who have had a contiuous presense in a region for nearly two millenia as newcomers. not do i think it accurate to label a religion that has nearly 1.5 billion adherents and 20% of the worlds population as a cult even though most religions began as cults.

"indigenous" is a very strange and vague word. one might claim that those jews who have lived in jerusalem for millenia (and i have no problem defining them as "indigenous") are actually indigenous to southern iraq via abram.

and to further complicate matters, the jews were originally a tribe of people before they became a religious group (simplistically). it would be as if someone were to make the claim that christians are indigenous to israel because that religion sprang from judaic tradition in the holy land.

 

[MHunterB]

Oh, I don't know about that - they haven't done themselves any favors with civilian-targeted terrorism. They're pursuing a better route with the UN.

Not only terrorism, but refusing generous offers by Barak and Olmert, to keep this wound festering.

The only Zionist offers were offers demanding Palestinians surrender and give up their lands and legal rights.

Every time someone posts a lie like the above bolded sentence, they are showing the rest of us a reason to NOT support the cause embraced by the lying individual.

The Palestinians deserve a far better advocate for their cause. While their cause is just, there should be no need to lie.

 

[toastman]

Oh, I don't know about that - they haven't done themselves any favors with civilian-targeted terrorism. They're pursuing a better route with the UN.

Not only terrorism, but refusing generous offers by Barak and Olmert, to keep this wound festering.

The only Zionist offers were offers demanding Palestinians surrender and give up their lands and legal rights.

Link ?

Also since when do the losers of the war dictate how the peace treaty will be played out ?

 

[Lipush]

Coyote, I am learning about the issue, I am going to ask a lot of questions.

If you find them irrelevant feel free not to respond.

I ask because I want to know each sides opinion instead of just reading wikipedia.

It is something I am interested in knowing , the personal viewpoints and opinions of each side.

What is exactly that you wish to know?

I've been posting questions for a few pages now go back a few and read them and respond if you desire to.



I wanted to know how this all began from each persons perspective and how it can be resolved from each persons perspective.

I ask more questions if someone answers something and adds information that makes me curious about their opinion.

It is depends of who you ask how it "all began".

For us it began once this land was promised to us.

If you ask a Palestinian, he or she will tell a different story.

Question is, though, IMHO, is not how it began, but how it will be over.

Much more interesting to know