Democracy: Syncretic In The Middle East

Restrictions on Freedom of Movement
  • Permit System: Palestinians require time-limited, often arbitrarily denied permits from Israeli authorities to enter Israel, East Jerusalem, or travel between the West Bank and Gaza.
  • Physical Barriers: Permanent checkpoints, roadblocks, and the separation barrier in the West Bank restrict travel within the territory, with 85% of the barrier built inside the West Bank, restricting access to land.
  • Road Restrictions: Specific roads are often restricted or forbidden for vehicles bearing Palestinian license plates.
Since the Oslo Accords, there is an international border between Israel (Area C) and Palestine (Areas A and B). Border controls and checkpoints are NORMAL. I don't have "freedom of movement" between Canada and the US (even though I am a citizen of both countries). I have to go through a checkpoint. This is between two friendly countries, not between two countries at war with each other. Of course, there is going to be a checkpoint. But everyone goes through the checkpoints. It isn't limited to Arab Palestinians.

And let's consider why Arab Palestinians need a permit (visa). Just like if my husband (who is Canadian and not a dual citizen) must have a permit to work in the US, so too must Arab Palestinians have a permit (visa) to work in Israel. Again, this is NORMAL. Why do Arab Palestinians want to work in Israel? Because the pay is higher in Israel. So, they go through the motions of travelling to another country for work.

Nearly 20,000 (!) citizens of Gaza had work permits for Israel prior to October 7. You will recall that those citizens provided detailed information to Hamas: how many people lived in each house, which homes had dogs, the location of the schools and daycares, the places where the weapons were stored. Information that was used to expedite the slaughter and hostage-taking.

The right of Israeli citizens to life takes precedence over the desire of Gazans to seek employment in Israel.

Now, having said all that, the "swiss cheese" character of the territory, which requires Arab Palestinians in Areas A and B to pass through Area C on their way through to other parts of Areas A and B, is silly. Areas A and B should be contiguous so that this isn't necessary. The only explanation I have is that Oslo was intended to be temporary. No one expected the Arab Palestinians to turn down their State.
Civil and Political Rights Restrictions
  • Freedom of Assembly/Expression: Military orders ban many forms of protest and political organization, with arrests for speech considered to "offend" the military.
  • Land and Property: Widespread home demolitions, forced evictions, and restrictions on building are common in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
  • Residency Rights: East Jerusalem Palestinians face potential revocation of residency, often categorized as a "silent transfer" to reduce the Arab population.
Area C is Israel and is under Israel's civil administration. By law. The 300,000 or so Arab Palestinians in this territory are required to adhere to that law. Illegal construction will result in home demolitions, and evictions. The Arab Palestinians (just like the Israelis) are trying to alter the "facts on the ground" by encroaching upon and claiming parts of Area C as their own. They take advantage of land laws in Area C (very strange and overlapping combination of Ottoman, Jordanian, and Israeli) to claim and register land as "theirs". They use NGOs and donations from other states to illegally build schools and other infrastructure. They build hundreds of miles of illegal roads. They build entire villages and then connect these back to Area B in order to expand. They abuse the legal system in place in Israel to build.
Legal and Administrative Restrictions
  • Two-Tier System: In the West Bank, Palestinians are subject to military law, while Israeli settlers in the same territory are subject to Israeli civilian law.
Yes. Two systems for two different citizenships. The Arab Palestinians in Areas A and B are foreigners to Israel. They aren't governed by Israeli law. The Arab Palestinians residing in Area C can't be subject to Israeli law. The application of Israeli law to Arab Palestinians would be the application of Israeli sovereignty over Area C (commonly, and incorrectly, called "annexation"). The international community frowns on that, remember?

Arab Palestinians in Areas A, B, and C are all subject to Palestinian law.

My point in all this, is that these administrative details are to be expected in this prolonged process of an emerging new State (or a population resisting the emergence of a new State and I mean the Arabs here). Is it messy? Sure. Is it SLAVERY. Absolutely not.
 
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I guess you're not going to address the extensive restrictions on their freedoms that Arab Palestinians face. I don't blame you, they are repugnant.
Ha. Just took me some time to write it up.
 
Since the Oslo Accords, there is an international border between Israel (Area C) and Palestine (Areas A and B). Border controls and checkpoints are NORMAL. I don't have "freedom of movement" between Canada and the US (even though I am a citizen of both countries). I have to go through a checkpoint. This is between two friendly countries, not between two countries at war with each other. Of course, there is going to be a checkpoint. But everyone goes through the checkpoints. It isn't limited to Arab Palestinians.
There are other, less charitable views:

Restricting movement is one of the main tools that Israel employs to enforce its regime of occupation over the Palestinian population in the Occupied Territories. Israel restricts the movement of Palestinians within the Occupied Territories, between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, into Israel, and abroad. Only Palestinians are restricted in this manner, while settlers and other civilians – Israeli and foreign – are free to travel.

Palestinians’ freedom of movement in the Occupied Territories lies completely at the mercy of the state’s whims, the instructions given to soldiers at the local (DCO), and the way in which they implement them. This state of affairs forces Palestinians to live in constant uncertainty, making it difficult to perform simple tasks and make plans. A Palestinian leaving home in the morning cannot know whether he or she is going to make it work – on time or at all – or to keep a medical appointment, visit family or catch a movie. She might make it, or she might be delayed at a checkpoint for hours, detained and humiliated by soldiers. She may have to turn around and go back the way she came. She may get arrested.

The restrictions on movement and the uncertainty they generate also bear implications for the Palestinian economy and its development potential. In several reports on the issue, the World Bank found that these restrictions are a major factor impeding economic stability and growth in the Occupied Territories. Reasons include delays in the arrival of goods, non-arrival of raw materials, the separation between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the inability to set schedules and meet them.

The present situation

Israel manages the Occupied Territories as three separate, unrelated areas: the Gaza Strip, which it has held under blockade for more than a decade; the West Bank, where it exercises full military control; and East Jerusalem, which it has annexed to its sovereign territory. Israel allows Palestinians to travel between these areas only if they obtain a special permit, which it rarely issues.

As part of the blockade on the Gaza Strip, Israel prohibits Palestinians from entering and leaving the area except in extremely rare cases, which include urgent, life-threatening medical conditions and a very short list of merchants. Israel limits import into Gaza and almost completely prohibits exports out of it. This policy has driven the Gazan economy to collapse, pushing unemployment there over the 40% mark.

In the West Bank, Israel controls all entry and exit points – including those leading to East Jerusalem, which it has annexed. Israel uses this control not only to block Palestinians from entering sovereign Israeli territory – even if only in transit to and from the Gaza Strip – but also to monitor all travel abroad from the West Bank, often denying passage based solely on its own considerations.

Inside Jerusalem, Israel has installed checkpoints that cut the Palestinian neighborhoods on the other side of the Separation Barrier off from the rest of the city. This forces 140,000 Palestinian Jerusalemites to cross busy, crowded checkpoints in order to enter their own city.

Israel also controls Palestinian travel inside the West Bank. Two major checkpoints split the West Bank in three: The Za’atara checkpoint between Nablus and Ramallah, which is staffed some of the time, and the Container checkpoint east of Abu Dis, which is always staffed. The traffic arteries, together with other checkpoints and roadblocks, direct all Palestinian traffic moving between the north and south of the West Bank into the roads that are controlled by these two checkpoints. The military has also installed iron gates at the entrances to the vast majority of West Bank villages, allowing it to isolate them within minutes and with minimal personnel.

As of January 2017, there are 98 checkpoints in the West Bank:

  • 59 permanent checkpoints located deep within the West Bank, 18 of them in Area H2 in the city of Hebron, where Israeli settlement enclaves have been established. Some of these checkpoints are constantly staffed, some only at daytime or for part of the day, and some are hardly ever staffed. Inspections at the checkpoints vary, but are often random.
  • 39 staffed checkpoints, which are considered points of entry into Israel although most are located several kilometers into the West Bank. These checkpoints are always staffed, and inspections are rigorous.
  • According to 2017 figures provided by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), 2,941 flying checkpoints were counted along West Bank roads (an average of 327 a month) until the end of September. A total of 5,587 flying checkpoints were counted in 2016.  According to OCHA, as of January 2017, there were 476 unstaffed physical obstacles along West Bank roads – including dirt mounds, concrete blocks, and fenced-off segments. Of these, 124 were gates installed at the entrances to villages – 59 of them closed and 65 open most of the time, except when the military decides to close them
To View list of checkpoints click here.

The restrictions on movement within the West Bank have institutionalized the separation between Israeli settlers and Palestinians. The main network of roads was built to serve settlers, on land expropriated from Palestinians. Israel completely prohibits Palestinians from using about 40 kilometers of these roads – including almost eight kilometers of Route 443 and almost seven kilometers within the city of Hebron, near the settlements established there. Another 20 kilometers of these roads are partially off limits to Palestinians.

In addition, Israel has created an alternate network of roads intended for Palestinians only. Referred to as “fabric-of-life roads”, they were also paved on land expropriated from Palestinians and include tunnels and bypass roads. According to OCHA, Israel has paved 49 kilometers of such roads, including 43 tunnels and underpasses. While this network does allow for vehicular travel between the Palestinian “islands” that Israel has created throughout the West Bank, Israel still prevents territorial contiguity between these communities. This road network also allows Israel to easily cut off traffic between different parts of the West Bank.

The permit system

To enforce the movement restrictions, Israel instituted a permit system that requires all Palestinian residents of the Occupied Territories to obtain a permit in order to enter Israel, East Jerusalem included, for any purpose whatsoever – including work, medical care and family visits. Palestinians must obtain a permit in order to transit through Israel for travel between the West Bank and Gaza Strip. As part of its blockade policy, Israel refuses to issue such permits to residents of Gaza, with rare exceptions.

In attempting to obtain these permits, Palestinians face an arbitrary, entirely non-transparent bureaucratic system. Applicants have no way of assessing the chances that their applications will be approved or how soon. Many applications are denied without explanation, with no real avenue for appeal. In addition, permits already granted are easily revoked, also without explanation.

Since October 2003, Israel has also been enforced a permit system in the “seam zone” – areas severed from the West Bank by the Separation Barrier, often separating landowners from their land. Under this system, Palestinian farmers must apply for permits to access their own land and renew them repeatedly. Restrictions are imposed on anyone who is not a landowner, and on bringing in farming equipment.

Background

Initially, after the occupation began, Palestinians from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip could travel almost entirely freely. Tens of thousands worked in Israel. Palestinians from the West Bank, Gaza and Israel maintained family ties; students from Gaza studied in West Bank universities; and extensive trade took place among Palestinians, no matter where they lived.

In January 1991, during the Gulf War, Israel changed its policy, introducing a demand that any Palestinian wishing to enter Israel or East Jerusalem, including for the purpose of travel between the West Bank and Gaza, must obtain a personal permit from Israel. This policy split the Occupied Territories into three separate areas – the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza – leaving travel between them entirely dependent on Israel’s approval.

The impact of this policy change was not immediately apparent. In the first few months, a great many permits were issued and for relatively long durations. As a rule, most Palestinians were still able to routinely enter Israel or travel between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. However, Israel gradually reduced the number of permits issued and they became harder and harder to obtain, until, in March 1993, after Palestinians from the Occupied Territories killed nine Israeli civilians and six members of the Israeli security forces, Israel imposed full closure “until further notice”.

To enforce the closure, Israel installed checkpoints along the Green Line (the boundary between Israel’s sovereign territory and the West Bank), between East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank, and on the Gaza border, and required Palestinians wishing to cross them to obtain a permit. These permits are canceled every time the military imposes a “complete closure” on the Occupied Territories, such as on Jewish holidays. The military often revokes Israeli entry permits after attacks, too – sometimes for all Palestinians in the West Bank, sometimes for residents of the attacker’s community, and sometimes, only for his or her family members.

Over the course of the second intifada, Israel imposed severe restrictions on Palestinian movement even inside the Occupied Territories. In the West Bank, it installed dozens of checkpoints and hundreds of physical obstacles – such as dirt mounds, concrete blocks and ditches – and also began building the Separation Barrier. Some of these obstacles have been removed and others have become permanent checkpoints, but altogether they formed the most extensive, longest-lasting restrictions on Palestinian movement since the beginning of the occupation, disrupting the daily lives of all residents.

Israel put up checkpoints inside the Gaza Strip as well, dividing it into three separate areas. In 2005, it implemented the Disengagement Plan, withdrawing its permanent military presence from Gaza, which made travel there free again. In June 2007, after Hamas took power, Israel imposed a blockade on the Gaza Strip – a policy still in effect today – prohibiting, with rare exceptions, entry and exit.
 
There are other, less charitable views:
Yes, I am aware of the "less charitable views". The problem with "less charitable views" such as this one is that it makes three (incorrect) assumptions:

1. That Israel has no right to control its borders.
2. That security concerns are irrelevant or negated.
3. That citizens of Israel and citizens of Palestine have the same rights within Israel.

And then, of course, these "less charitable views" dapple the conversation with emotive, false, and demonizing language.

I'm not going to respond to the entire cut-and-paste. It is unnecessary to do so as this cut-and-paste doesn't address the three points listed above, which was the thrust of my argument in my last post. But a few things that caught my eye:

Only Palestinians are restricted in this manner, while settlers and other civilians – Israeli and foreign – are free to travel.
This is not true. Everyone entering Israel is subject to border control. For Israeli citizens, as you would expect, the process is expedited.

Also, Israelis are not "free to travel". They are prohibited from entering Areas A and B.
Palestinians’ freedom of movement in the Occupied Territories lies completely at the mercy of the state’s whims, security threat level, the instructions given to soldiers at the local (DCO), and the way in which they implement them.
Fixed it for ya.
As part of the blockade on the Gaza Strip, Israel prohibits Palestinians from entering and leaving the area except in extremely rare cases, which include urgent, life-threatening medical conditions and a very short list of merchants.
Israel does not prohibit people from entering and leaving Gaza. Israel controls its own border.
The restrictions on movement within the West Bank have institutionalized the separation between Israeli <snip> and Palestinians.
Oslo institutionalized the separation of Israeli citizens and Palestinian citizens.

I'm also going to add that I have a good deal of sympathy for the struggles and genuine suffering of the Palestinians.
 
Yes, I am aware of the "less charitable views". The problem with "less charitable views" such as this one is that it makes three (incorrect) assumptions:

1. That Israel has no right to control its borders.
2. That security concerns are irrelevant or negated.
3. That citizens of Israel and citizens of Palestine have the same rights within Israel.
1. Israel controls its borders AND those of Palestine
2. The security concerns of Palestinians are irrelevant or negated.
3. The citizens of Israel and citizens of Palestine have the same rights within Area C.

Based on reports from the United Nations, human rights organizations, and legal analyses, Israeli citizens and Palestinian residents do not have the same rights within Area C of the West Bank.
Area C, which constitutes approximately 60% of the West Bank and is under full Israeli military and civil control, is characterized by a dual legal system.
Wikipedia +1
  • Israeli Settlers in Area C: Subject to Israeli civil law and administrative protections, Israeli settlers in Area C enjoy the same rights and liberties as citizens living within Israel proper. They benefit from infrastructure development, planning permits, and legal protections.
  • Palestinians in Area C: Palestinians are governed by Israeli military law, which is administered by the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT). They face severe restrictions on construction, building permits, and land access, making it virtually impossible for them to build legally, leading to high rates of home demolitions.
    Human Rights Watch +4
This disparity is often described by human rights organizations (such as Amnesty International, B'Tselem, and Human Rights Watch) as a discriminatory system that treats residents differently based on nationality.
Wikipedia +1
Key Differences in Rights:
  • Planning and Zoning: Palestinians are denied building permits for most of Area C, while settlements expand via a separate, parallel planning system.
  • Infrastructure Access: Palestinian communities are frequently denied access to water, power, and sewage networks, often relying on expensive, temporary solutions.
  • Legal Status: Palestinians in Area C live in a constant state of uncertainty, facing the threat of home demolitions, eviction, and displacement, while Israeli settlers reside in permanent communities, often with government subsidies.
    Human Rights Watch +2
Note: Area C is considered occupied territory under international law, and the settlement of civilians there is considered a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, a position supported by the United Nations and the International Court of Justice (ICJ)
 
The 22 Arab countries, which are members of the Arab League and span North Africa and the Middle East, are: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.
Aha did you just list a bunch of countries that the West has spent 100+ years making sure can have no agency over themselves, including establishing a successful Democracy? What a fail.
 
Note: Area C is considered occupied territory under international law, and the settlement of civilians there is considered a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, a position supported by the United Nations and the International Court of Justice (ICJ)
I wanted to address this first and separately for its common repetition in every circle, even though it is not correct. The ICJ has never been asked, and has never opined on the boundary where Israel ends and some "State of Palestine" begins. There has never been such a boundary and there is no legal basis for pretending one exists. Further, Area C is under the full civil and military control of Israel by treaty, with the full agreement of the PA.
 
Based on reports from the United Nations, human rights organizations, and legal analyses, Israeli citizens and Palestinian residents do not have the same rights within Area C of the West Bank.
Okay, let's discuss Area C. The foundation to understanding Area C is that it was never intended to be permanent. It is unworkable as a permanent solution, or even, as now, a long-term one. Some portion of the Area C was intended to be ceded to the new State of Palestine and some portion to be retained by Israel.

Israeli citizens and Palestinian citizens do not have the same rights in Area C because the rights follow the citizenship, and not the residency. The Arabs living in Area C are governed by Palestine, not Israel. Palestine is responsible for providing these citizens with social services, health care, education, etc.

However, Israel is the governing authority over the territory. Israel is responsible for planning and development.

Both Israelis and Palestinians are encroaching on Area C, mostly following and close to the existing administrative lines (the Green Line for Israel and the Area B line for Palestine) as existing communities grow and expand. It is natural for communities to expand over time, There are about 350,000 Palestinians living in Area C. And about 500,000 Israelis.

Both Israelis and Palestinians are also creating communities outside of Israel's governing authority. We can use the term "illegal" to describe them. These are communities built without following Israeli regulations, such as obtaining the correct building permits, or developing a community plan. Palestinians are also taking advantage of the somewhat haphazard and confusing combination of land laws to assert control over land.

Oops. Accidently hit the post button before I was finished. More coming...
 
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Continued from above...

So, in pursuit of democracy, and assuming that we want to move away from the status quo, what does Israel do with these 350,000 (and growing) non-citizen residents?

Does Israel offer them citizenship?
Does Israel cede parts of the territory to the PA?
If Israel cedes territory along the Area B administrative lines to Palestine, does she also assert sovereignty over territory along the Israel/Area C lines?
Does Israel make a unilateral decision on future borders?

What are the consequences of each potential "solution"?
 
Aha did you just list a bunch of countries that the West has spent 100+ years making sure can have no agency over themselves, including establishing a successful Democracy? What a fail.
Are you claiming that that was the Democrat's doing??????
 
I think Augustine_ was referring to the colonial powers, mainly England and France. We know you blame every evil on the Democrats so it is hard to know when you are serious and when you are just delusional.
Conservatives in the West will overthrow a Democracy, replace it with an autocracy, and then say the people there are incapable of Democracy.
 
I think Augustine_ was referring to the colonial powers, mainly England and France. We know you blame every evil on the Democrats so it is hard to know when you are serious and when you are just delusional.
The first two words....

"facts not in evidence."
 
Learn not to lie.



I hope your name is Herman so it rhymes with what you are.



You posted a series of lies about me.....





"That is exactly NOT what you want.



You want to go back to a time when gays couldn't marry and had to hide in the closet.

You want to go back to a time when you got health care only if you could afford it.

You want to go back to a time when the only religions allowed were Jewish and Christian.

You want to go back to a time when racial and sex discrimination was accepted practice.

You want to go back to a time when all charity came from the religion you belonged to.

You want to go back to a time when pollution was an accepted part of business.

I could go on. Get Ready For A One-Party Nation post# 118



If you can't produce any quotes of mine that support your statements, then you are what you always were, a lying sack of offal.
 
Learn not to lie.

I hope your name is Herman so it rhymes with what you are.

You posted a series of lies about me.....

"That is exactly NOT what you want.

You want to go back to a time when gays couldn't marry and had to hide in the closet.

You want to go back to a time when you got health care only if you could afford it.

You want to go back to a time when the only religions allowed were Jewish and Christian.

You want to go back to a time when racial and sex discrimination was accepted practice.

You want to go back to a time when all charity came from the religion you belonged to.

You want to go back to a time when pollution was an accepted part of business.

I could go on. Get Ready For A One-Party Nation post# 118

If you can't produce any quotes of mine that support your statements, then you are what you always were, a lying sack of offal.
I don't need a quote of yours since, as you are a Trump supporter, that list is 100% accurate and you have never denied any of them. Sorry you don't like the message but don't shoot the messenger.
 
15th post
I don't need a quote of yours since, as you are a Trump supporter, that list is 100% accurate and you have never denied any of them. Sorry you don't like the message but don't shoot the messenger.
Herman the Vermin.....lying scum.
 
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