The Jews and the Native Americans

[P F Tinmore]

What are they pushing for?

There is still more support than not for a two state solution: PSR poll 45 - Full analysis

Though less hope of success.

The biggest pro Palestinian campaign, BDS, does not mention a state and have no position on one or two states.

Then there are those who believe they already have a state but it is occupied.

What does BDS push for?

The end of Israeli occupation and colonisation of Arab land, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and respect for the right of return of Palestinian refugees.[1]

Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Michelle420]

Why? This is not a religious conflict.

Ok so why does either side care about the land then?

For the Israeli's - it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home. For the Palestinians - it's about ending the occupation by a foreign power.

So one side it's religious reasons and the other side it's just wanting property rights were palestinians there first historically?

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

 

[Michelle420]

Why don't the palestinians open up all the borders and offer to share it with everyone including the small strip of land ?

Do you mean share it with Israelis ?

Yeah with everyone including Israeli's.

Be like the united states and let everyone have their own personal freedoms.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ok so why does either side care about the land then?

For the Israeli's - it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home. For the Palestinians - it's about ending the occupation by a foreign power.

So one side it's religious reasons and the other side it's just wanting property rights were palestinians there first historically?

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

Only Palestine had Palestinians before 1948.

 

[Michelle420]

For the Israeli's - it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home. For the Palestinians - it's about ending the occupation by a foreign power.

So one side it's religious reasons and the other side it's just wanting property rights were palestinians there first historically?

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

Only Palestine had Palestinians before 1948.

oh I see.

 

[flowery]

Why don't the palestinians open up all the borders and offer to share it with everyone including the small strip of land ?

Do you mean share it with Israelis ?

Yeah with everyone including Israeli's.

Be like the united states and let everyone have their own personal freedoms.

There is a huge difference between two things:

Coming to my country , stay may be forever, have a descent job and study in our public schools , with good intention hurting no one

and

invade my country , steal my lands, destroy my home & school and kill my family

Am I right ?

 

[Michelle420]

Do you mean share it with Israelis ?

Yeah with everyone including Israeli's.

Be like the united states and let everyone have their own personal freedoms.

There is a huge difference between two things:

Coming to my country , stay may be forever, have a descent job and study in our public schools , with good intention hurting no one

and

invade my country , steal my lands, destroy my home & school and kill my family

Am I right ?

Sure that makes sense stealing and killing is wrong and none of us should do it we should be loving and accepting of each other including our differences religiously, non-religiously and all other ways too.

If they went there for religious reasons, they must have been there at some point before 1948, otherwise it makes no sense why they just took the land.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

So one side it's religious reasons and the other side it's just wanting property rights were palestinians there first historically?

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

Only Palestine had Palestinians before 1948.

oh I see.

70% of the population of Jordan is Palestinian. Queen Noor of that country is Palestinian.

 

[MHunterB]

"Why don't we throw everyone out of New Jersey and give it to Israel. After all, those people have the rest of the US to live in."

I can only answer this joke with another joke.

It's obvious this poster hasn't spent time in New Joisey: all the tolls on all the bridges are paid by people *leaving* Jersey because they know people are willing to pay to get out!

I have been there. It is no prize.

It was once called the "stupid law" capital of the US. Since then, I think other states are trying to win that recognition.

See, I *knew* you weren't trying to be nice!

I think after Rep Cheryl Jacques proposed outlawing crossbows up here, that MA may have overtaken the 'Garden State'.......

 

[Coyote]

Ok so why does either side care about the land then?

For the Israeli's - it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home. For the Palestinians - it's about ending the occupation by a foreign power.

So one side it's religious reasons and the other side it's just wanting property rights were palestinians there first historically?

Actually, that is not what I said. "it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home"

Israeli's are a diverse people and many of them are quite secular. A big reason for them is to never again be a homeless people subject to another holocaust in a country where they are unwanted. For others, religious Zionism drives them to complain what was the Israel of thousands of years ago.

For the Palestinians - I did not state they were there "first" historically". In fact, none of those groups really "first" as they are now defined. The Jews were altered significantly by the diaspora, the Palestinians are comprised of many religions and a mixture of ethnic groups over successive migrations pf peoples. For the most part, the Jews and Palestinians are really the same people.

The Palestinians lost their lands to the Israeli occupation and there are many people still alive from that. For them - it IS about land and an end to foreign occupation.

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

By that logic, Israel is Palestinian.

France, Italy, Germany and Austria are all Swiss.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The end of Israeli occupation and colonisation of Arab land, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and respect for the right of return of Palestinian refugees.[1]

Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And you Muslims will offer full equality for Jews in Jordan and Saudi Arabia, right?

Oh wait - it's a one sided coin - as always with you Muslims.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Only Palestine had Palestinians before 1948.

No Arab was ever called a "Palestinian" before 1948.

Over 90% of "Palestinians" are descended from Egyptian or Jordanian stock within 3 generations.

You whole justification is utter bullshit - a complete fabrication. The simple fact is that you will not suffer Infidels to control what you view as Muslim land.

 

[Coyote]

The end of Israeli occupation and colonisation of Arab land, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and respect for the right of return of Palestinian refugees.[1]

Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And you Muslims will offer full equality for Jews in Jordan and Saudi Arabia, right?

Oh wait - it's a one sided coin - as always with you Muslims.

Why don't you ask Tinmore directly rather than lumping him into "you Muslims"?

 

[Michelle420]

So....I'm not clear on the point you are attempting to make. It sounds something like this:

Palestinians don't control their own borders therefore they should all move out into the other countries.

Correct?

No.

You said they don't control it.

I have no idea.

I was just asking questions.

The whole thing seems so weird to me.

I was just trying to understand why it's such a big deal to give one strip of land to people other then muslims.

If that isn't the issue then tell me what the issue is from your point of view.

Ah, well that's the fallacy.

It's not a religious issue.

It's an issue regarding the rights of self determination for two groups of people: the Palestinians and the Israeli's.

The Israeli's have their strip and the Palestinians want their own strip. The argument is borders and how the two nations will interact to guarantee sovereignty and security.

Why is giving Palestinians a state such a big deal? Cause they are Muslim?

For the Israeli's - it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home. For the Palestinians - it's about ending the occupation by a foreign power.

So one side it's religious reasons and the other side it's just wanting property rights were palestinians there first historically?

Actually, that is not what I said. "it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home"

Israeli's are a diverse people and many of them are quite secular. A big reason for them is to never again be a homeless people subject to another holocaust in a country where they are unwanted. For others, religious Zionism drives them to complain what was the Israel of thousands of years ago.

For the Palestinians - I did not state they were there "first" historically". In fact, none of those groups really "first" as they are now defined. The Jews were altered significantly by the diaspora, the Palestinians are comprised of many religions and a mixture of ethnic groups over successive migrations pf peoples. For the most part, the Jews and Palestinians are really the same people.

The Palestinians lost their lands to the Israeli occupation and there are many people still alive from that. For them - it IS about land and an end to foreign occupation.

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

By that logic, Israel is Palestinian.

France, Italy, Germany and Austria are all Swiss.

So the jews never lived there before 1948?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

No.

You said they don't control it.

I have no idea.

I was just asking questions.

The whole thing seems so weird to me.

I was just trying to understand why it's such a big deal to give one strip of land to people other then muslims.

If that isn't the issue then tell me what the issue is from your point of view.

Ah, well that's the fallacy.

It's not a religious issue.

It's an issue regarding the rights of self determination for two groups of people: the Palestinians and the Israeli's.

The Israeli's have their strip and the Palestinians want their own strip. The argument is borders and how the two nations will interact to guarantee sovereignty and security.

Why is giving Palestinians a state such a big deal? Cause they are Muslim?

Actually, that is not what I said. "it's a combination of religion, Zionism, and a desire to never again be a people without a home"

Israeli's are a diverse people and many of them are quite secular. A big reason for them is to never again be a homeless people subject to another holocaust in a country where they are unwanted. For others, religious Zionism drives them to complain what was the Israel of thousands of years ago.

For the Palestinians - I did not state they were there "first" historically". In fact, none of those groups really "first" as they are now defined. The Jews were altered significantly by the diaspora, the Palestinians are comprised of many religions and a mixture of ethnic groups over successive migrations pf peoples. For the most part, the Jews and Palestinians are really the same people.

The Palestinians lost their lands to the Israeli occupation and there are many people still alive from that. For them - it IS about land and an end to foreign occupation.

How did they get the power when 5 countries surrounding it are palestinian?

By that logic, Israel is Palestinian.

France, Italy, Germany and Austria are all Swiss.

So the jews never lived there before 1948?

They lived there in ancient times. Their Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, and they were dispersed throughout the world. They returned in the 1800's.

 

[flowery]

Since it is not religious tell me why they are fighting over this land for so long.

Because ,, Israel is a BIG thief

It want to steal this land that belong to Palestinians (Muslims & Christians) in the name of religion and lies !

 

[flowery]

Why I ask the question is because I want a general consensus of which came first, since to both sides it seems to be important.

Historically in every country there has been tribal disputes over beliefs which were socially constructed to govern each tribe.

I just want to develop a timeline for each sides belief.

All lands belongs to the God
in the ancient time the Canaanies who are the Arabs live in this land and this written in their book, Jewish Book "Old Bible" ,, so historically this land belong to those who lived there for many years.

 

[flowery]

So the jews never lived there before 1948?

No

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Since it is not religious tell me why they are fighting over this land for so long.

Because ,, Israel is a BIG thief

It want to steal this land that belong to Palestinians (Muslims & Christians) in the name of religion and lies !

You're the thief. You stole 57 lands!!

 

[Michelle420]

Anyone care to post archeology or real artifacts datelining who was there first?