Zone1 The fundamental differences between a follower of Christ and Catholicism is...

[FoghornLeghorn]

Let's take a look at what Jesus says according to the Bible.

Salvation is from the Jews. (John 4)
He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mark 16:16)
Unless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3)
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:54)

As you pointed out in the OP:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)

Many non-Catholic Christian churches do not believe in the true presence of Christ--body, blood, soul, and divinity--in the Eucharist. They give another explanation for what Christ "really" meant. Scripture, tradition, and outside historical sources affirm Christ's true presence in the Eucharist was practiced from earliest Christianity until Protestants began practicing a different belief about fifteen hundred years later. Another scriptural verse: Who is not with me is against me, and he who does gather with me, scatters. (Matthew 12:30)

It should be remembered that the Catholic Church also teaches that non-Catholic Christian churches are members of the Body of Christ.

At every Mass the Catholic Church teaches the Old Testament (from the Jews). It teaches Baptism (a sacrament), Repentance and Reconciliation (a sacrament), the full presence of Christ in the Eucharist (a sacrament).

Perhaps your question should be, Must a follower of Christ observe all of Jesus' points for salvation as the Catholic Church observes; or can salvation be at hand for someone who observes even just one of the four points of salvation?

None of this directly answers my question. Anyway, neither Jesus nor the apostles said that salvation is only possible through a church. The Catholic Church created that doctrine, not Jesus.

 

[ding]

None of this directly answers my question. Anyway, neither Jesus nor the apostles said that salvation is only possible through a church. The Catholic Church created that doctrine, not Jesus.

What do you think the Church is exactly?

The Church isn’t the hierarchy. The Church is the members who make up the body of Christ and is an unbroken lineage back to the time of Christ. Protestants chose to break from this body and form their own body of Christ. Protestants chose to ignore the most important command of Jesus to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

The Church is the members who make up the body of Christ and is an unbroken lineage back to the time of Christ.

Jesus's church is his body of faithful followers, regardless of man-made denominations or no denomination at all. Are we in agreement?

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

...but there is too much chance you would churn out something in the order of Call no man father

Clearly you and the Catholic Church disagree with Jesus's commandment and willfully violate it.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

That statement is pure ignorance. I would ask for you to specify one thing, but there is too much chance you would churn out something in the order of Call no man father--which in fact makes my point when it comes to Biblical history and etymology.

That really bothers you, doesn't it. Just DONT. You'll feel better for having obeyed

BTW, Rush would say "you're too smart by half"

 

[ding]

Jesus's church is his body of faithful followers, regardless of man-made denominations or no denomination at all. Are we in agreement?

No. Not when you attack other denominations.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you are going to attack my denomination as false, your denomination is fair game to be attacked as false.

 

[ding]

Clearly you and the Catholic Church disagree with Jesus's commandment and willfully violate it.

It’s you who refuses to follow Jesus’ command to eat his flesh and drink his blood. All because it shocks you. According to Jesus you have no life in you.

 

[ding]

That really bothers you, doesn't it. Just DONT. You'll feel better for having obeyed

BTW, Rush would say "you're too smart by half"

I doubt it does bother her. You aren’t a member of the body of Christ. You belong to some insignificant sect that pays lip service to God.

 

[Meriweather]

It is not done today because you don't have political power. The Catholic Church does not have a modern Constantine to do it's bidding. But you soon will.
The Bible calls that political leader the "Beast." And he comes with "the False Prophet"

But you asked me what error I see in your church. I told you. Now you want to change the subject and convince me your counterfeit is the true Church

Your conclusions about errors in the Catholic Church stem from faulty premises, and much twisting and tangling on your part--often to the point I haven't a clue of what you are talking about. In the above: You bring up a political leader, claiming he is yet to come. That political leader was in fact a Roman back in the time John wrote Revelation. So many things such as this is why you and I cannot have a good conversation. Hatred of the Catholic faith is blinding.

 

[Meriweather]

None of this directly answers my question. Anyway, neither Jesus nor the apostles said that salvation is only possible through a church. The Catholic Church created that doctrine, not Jesus.

You asked why the Catholic Church says outside the Church there is no salvation. I point out what the Catholic Church teaches and follows based on Jesus' teachings on salvation. Which one of the four teachings I listed is wrong, is something Jesus did not say?

That's why I suggested a better question from you might be how many of Jesus' four teachings on salvation must be followed in order to be saved? What say you?

 

[Meriweather]

Clearly you and the Catholic Church disagree with Jesus's commandment and willfully violate it.

Catholics understand what Jesus was saying about people starting a new sect and, after Father Abraham, called themselves Father of that sect. Jesus plainly says that the Father of the faith/religion he is teachings comes from God--not from any man. Jesus was speaking of founders of a different religion...i.e., Martin Luther (Lutherans); Joseph Smith (LDS); William Seymour (Pentecostals). Catholics stay with Jesus only, who is the Word of the Father.

 

[ding]

Tell that to ding, he and I are the only two on this board who aren't afraid to call his bible a book of lies.

And the Catholic church has got our backs on that too!

Where do we begin to receive the truth? How do you feel about the 'big fish and Jonah story?

Ding and I have cleared our beliefs with the pope already. Are you still going with Satan's lies?

You really are a dolt.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

Catholics understand what Jesus was saying about people starting a new sect and, after Father Abraham, called themselves Father of that sect. Jesus plainly says that the Father of the faith/religion he is teachings comes from God--not from any man. Jesus was speaking of founders of a different religion...i.e., Martin Luther (Lutherans); Joseph Smith (LDS); William Seymour (Pentecostals). Catholics stay with Jesus only, who is the Word of the Father.

Incorrect. Jesus was talking about exalting mere men with lofty titles. The Catholic Church could get around this by calling priests "brother" but instead chose to violate Jesus's commandment by calling them "Father". In the spiritual sense we have only ONE Father and that is our creator.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

You asked why the Catholic Church says outside the Church there is no salvation. I point out what the Catholic Church teaches and follows based on Jesus' teachings on salvation. Which one of the four teachings I listed is wrong, is something Jesus did not say?

That's why I suggested a better question from you might be how many of Jesus' four teachings on salvation must be followed in order to be saved? What say you?

Love God, repent from wrongdoing, obey God, love one another. That's it.

 

[Meriweather]

Incorrect.

Biblical history and the various use of the word 'Father' in Biblical times say differently.

Love God, repent from wrongdoing, obey God, love one another. That's it.

Then it is your opinion all can safely ignore what Jesus said about baptism and the Eucharist being part of salvation? In your formula it appears Jesus and his teachings (the entire New Testament) are not needed as Exodus and Deuteronomy cover all you list.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

Then it is your opinion all can safely ignore what Jesus said about baptism and the Eucharist being part of salvation?

I don't believe that Jesus condemns Godly people because they weren't baptized or take communion. Do you have Biblical evidence that says otherwise?

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

Biblical history and the various use of the word 'Father' in Biblical times say differently.

OK. Let's see it.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't believe that Jesus condemns Godly people because they weren't baptized or take communion. Do you have Biblical evidence that says otherwise?

I am addressing the OP's challenge about the Catechism of the Catholic Church saying, "Outside the Church there is no salvation." I am merely pointing out why the Church says this, and that is because the Church follows all four points Jesus made about salvation.

I am sure you recall Jesus' statement about eating his body and drinking his blood--and am equally sure you have an interpretation that brushes all this aside. The Church stays with what Jesus said and the practice of the Apostolic church regarding communion.

If you follow the Catechism of the Catholic Church past picking and choosing something you feel is a useful club for bashing the Catholic faith, you would have also noted that the Church points out that it follows Christ's command to spread the Good News (as he taught) throughout the world. It follows through with God is a power beyond the Church and His hands are capable of reaching those outside the Church.

You joined recently, so may not know I am from a family of atheists, and who married an atheist. I trust in God. For someone to even suggest I believe/say that God condemns non-believers I regard as insulting based on pure ignorance. Those of us who have complete trust in God have no reason to bash atheists--or anyone outside the Catholic faith. As for me...I chose to begin following Jesus' Way of Salvation early in this life. Why wait for salvation and the beauty of God's Ways until after death?

 

[Meriweather]

OK. Let's see it.

I'm sharing what my own years of study have taught me. Those who wish to do their own fact checking should go for it on their own time. It's what I did.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

It's impossible to reason with Catholics through the scriptures because they don't recognize the scriptures, as I pointed out in the OP.