The compromise on SS that both sides should be able to agree on.

[Rigby5]

That’s why you need to have cash. So even if the market tanks when you first retire, you live off the cash + SS, and just ride the market back up.

As far as the COVID crash, not only did I not sell, I was looking to scoop up some bargains. Problem was that the market rebounded SO quickly - really sharp V - that I hesitated for a brief time and lost the opportunity.

You can't "ride the market back up.
Once a company like Enron tanks, they NEVER come back up again.

 

[Lesh]

You can't "ride the market back up.
Once a company like Enron tanks, they NEVER come back up again.

We do NOT need Russian sock puppets like this clown talking aboyut our retirement

 

[initforme]

SS is possibly the greatest accomplishment America has ever conceived of program wise. It has helped millions upon millions. The vast vast majority support it.

 

[Blues Man]

The Republican position, in a nutshell: Social Security isn't really an investment system, it's basically a ponzi scheme where the government taxes you, spends it on current payments, and legislatively (pseudo-arbitrarily) chooses how much to pay out and when. It would be better to abolish it and leave that money in the hands of people who can then use the free market to choose if, when, and how to invest and spend their money.

The Democrat position, in a nutshell: Social Security isn't just about retirement, it's really about providing a fundamental safety net. Disability is funded through Social Security also, and it would be unfathomable for the disabled to end up homeless and dying on the street. And the fact of the matter is that many people end up not being good at being disciplined enough to invest in their retirements adequately so if we take away Social Security we'll have tons of old people becoming homeless and dying on the streets from exposure and hunger. Social Security can be saved and made solvent with again with updated adjustments to the pseudo-arbitrary tax and spending levels.

The solution:
Keep Social Security and restructure it. One half of SS taxes go to funding disability programs. The other half gets privatized and directed to a 401k or IRA of the taxpayer's choosing. The result would be much like an employer sponsored retirement plan, except that the taxpayer would have more control to choose with whom and how their retirement funds are invested.

Why should it be so difficult for either side to agree to this?

It's still cheaper to buy your own disability insurance AND private disability insurance pays better benefits.

So let people control all of the 12.4% of their lifetime income and they'll be better off

 

[Blues Man]

SS is possibly the greatest accomplishment America has ever conceived of program wise. It has helped millions upon millions. The vast vast majority support it.

And it has successfully kept generations of people from achieving true financial independence

 

[Lesh]

And it has successfully kept generations of people from achieving true financial independence

Horseshit

It has kept generation after generation of the nation's elderly from ending their lives in abject poverty

 

[Blues Man]

Horseshit

It has kept generation after generation of the nation's elderly from ending their lives in abject poverty

By denying them the opportunity to become wealthy.

 

[Lesh]

By denying them the opportunity to become wealthy.

You realize that makes no sense right?

 

[Blues Man]

You realize that makes no sense right?

It makes perfect sense because 12.4 % of a person's lifetime income is mismanaged by the idiots in the government resulting in an abysmally low return

 

[Lesh]

It makes perfect sense because 12.4 % of a person's lifetime income is mismanaged by the idiots in the government resulting in an abysmally low return

Resulting in a GUARENTEED return...as long as people like you don't fuck it up

 

[Blues Man]

Resulting in a GUARENTEED return...as long as people like you don't fuck it up

A guaranteed return is a guaranteed loss.

There is not any 45 year period where the stock market has ever shown a negative return.

 

[Lesh]

A guaranteed return is a guaranteed loss.

There is not any 45 year period where the stock market has ever shown a negative return.

Yea that's all well and good...as long as when those crashes happen (and as we have seen they do) you haven't recently retired or about to retire.

Or haven't made bad investments or pulled money out for various reasons

Be honest. You're just whining because your financial situation is such that YOU don't need social security (although you'll gladly accept it) and in your mind could have been so much MORE wealthy if only you had that money to invest

 

[Blues Man]

Yea that's all well and good...as long as when those crashes happen (and as we have seen they do) you haven't recently retired or about to retire.

Or haven't made bad investments or pulled money out for various reasons

Be honest. You're just whining because your financial situation is such that YOU don't need social security (although you'll gladly accept it) and in your mind could have been so much MORE wealthy if only you had that money to invest

Doesn't matter.

Even if the market drops at the end of the period the gains are still there. Besides that you never cash out all your investments when you retire. You leave the bulk of it in the market and as the market recovers which it always does then you still get a continuing appreciation of your investments

And what do you mean "accept it" IT"S MY FUCKING MONEY

 

[Lesh]

Even if the market drops at the end of the period the gains are still there

If you have recently retired and don't have social security...you asre pulling dollars out at twice the rate you would have...and can't recoup that loss because you have spent that money. If you were planning on retiring you have to put that off for years

Besides that you never cash out all your investments when you retire.

But every dollar you DO pull out is not only of less value...but can not be reinvested because you had to live on that money

Example...in 2008...the market lost HALF its value. If you had to live on the proceeds from stock sales (because you had no social security) every $100 you take out was worth $ 200 before the crash...and will be SPENT because you have bills to pay so it is not available to "recoup the loss"

 

[Blues Man]

If you have recently retired and don't have social security...you asre pulling dollars out at twice the rate you would have...and can't recoup that loss because you have spent that money. If you were planning on retiring you have to put that off for years

But every dollar you DO pull out is not only of less value...but can not be reinvested because you had to live on that money

Example...in 2008...the market lost HALF its value. If you had to live on the proceeds from stock sales (because you had no social security) every $100 you take out was worth $ 200 before the crash...and will be SPENT because you have bills to pay so it is not available to "recoup the loss"

No you're not.

And you don't seem to realize that what you call "The Market" isn;t the entirety of all investments. The DJ Average only reflects the average of 500 companies and ignores NASDAQ entirely.

And the dollar is worth the same no matter when you sell stocks. It's the value of the stock that changes not the value of the dollar. So even if you sell SOME assets for moeny to live on you still are in positive returns over the lifetime of your portfolio and since you still leave all the rest of your assets invested then those assets will increase in value as you progress into your retirement

You really don;t understand money at all.

 

[Lesh]

It's the value of the stock that changes not the value of the dollar.

The value of that stock determines how MANY dollars you have to pull out. And how many you have left. Are you pretending to be stupid?

And oh yea...the Nasdaq did no better in 2007 than the Dow dumfuk.

THIS is the intelligence of people trying to kill social security folks

Sheesh

 

[berg80]

You have it wrong.

What is necessary is for people to plan for their retirement.

If they don't do it then that is their problem.

Now that sounds like a Repub plan to me. A plan that ensures greater wealth disparity, a huge increase in homelessness for the elderly, people dying in the streets....while the rich step over the bodies......a Repub wet dream.
Rick Scott wants to end SS, end Medicare, and have everyone pay a federal income tax no matter how destitute they are. He'll have to build very high walls around his mansion, the one he earned by defrauding the public, to keep out the riff-raff.

Rick Scott Proposed 'All Americans' Should Pay Income Tax, Then Denied That He Did - FactCheck.org

A multipart policy plan released by Sen. Rick Scott on Feb. 22 says "all Americans" should have to pay "income tax," while saying that "over half of Americans" currently do not. But in an interview later that day, after criticism from congressional Democrats, the Florida senator falsely claimed...

www.factcheck.org

TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Rick Scott is used to being attacked for the historic $1.7 billion Medicare fraud fine slapped on his former hospital company.

Democrats: Medicare fraud is 'fungus' Scott will never get rid of

For Scott’s campaign, Democrats’ decision not to put real money behind the issue is a sign that it has been litigated — and won — by Scott.

www.politico.com

 

[Blues Man]

The value of that stock determines how MANY dollars you have to pull out. And how many you have left. Are you pretending to be stupid?

And oh yea...the Nasdaq did no better in 2007 than the Dow dumfuk.

THIS is the intelligence of people trying to kill social security folks

Sheesh

No it doesn't.

You sell what you need to cover your expenses. The price of the stock dictates how much stock you need to sell to receive a specific dollar amount.

And as I said there has not been a single period of over 20 years where anyone in the market received negative returns so even if the market drops near the end of your working career you still have a positive annualized return of 7% or better so even even at the worst your ROR was more than 3 times what the government pays on social security

if you sell a stock at a lower price that selling price is still most likely going to be higher than when you bought the stock so you don;t lose any money on the trade.



AND since you don;t cash in your entire portfolio when you retire the bulk of your money is still going to appreciate

 

[Blues Man]

Now that sounds like a Repub plan to me. A plan that ensures greater wealth disparity, a huge increase in homelessness for the elderly, people dying in the streets....while the rich step over the bodies......a Repub wet dream.
Rick Scott wants to end SS, end Medicare, and have everyone pay a federal income tax no matter how destitute they are. He'll have to build very high walls around his mansion, the one he earned by defrauding the public, to keep out the riff-raff.

Rick Scott Proposed 'All Americans' Should Pay Income Tax, Then Denied That He Did - FactCheck.org

A multipart policy plan released by Sen. Rick Scott on Feb. 22 says "all Americans" should have to pay "income tax," while saying that "over half of Americans" currently do not. But in an interview later that day, after criticism from congressional Democrats, the Florida senator falsely claimed...

www.factcheck.org

TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Rick Scott is used to being attacked for the historic $1.7 billion Medicare fraud fine slapped on his former hospital company.

Democrats: Medicare fraud is 'fungus' Scott will never get rid of

For Scott’s campaign, Democrats’ decision not to put real money behind the issue is a sign that it has been litigated — and won — by Scott.

www.politico.com

Allowing people to control the 12.4% of their lifetime income will actually result in people having far more to retire on.

Even a person who makes an average of 45K over his entire working life will retire with over a million dollars in his portfolio

 

[initforme]

True financial independence comes from nothing less than 6 figures starting out. From square one.