The compromise on SS that both sides should be able to agree on.

[CrusaderFrank]

As long as the market doesn't tank (has tanked twice in the last 15 years)

And ya don't make bad investments

Or find a "need" that money...for who knows what

Again...they tried this in Chile and it was an abject disaster

You don't know dick about Chile. Especially compared to Socialist Utopia Venezuela

 

[Lisa558]

As long as the market doesn't tank (has tanked twice in the last 15 years)

And ya don't make bad investments

Or find a "need" that money...for who knows what

Again...they tried this in Chile and it was an abject disaster

So you just hold on until the market recovers. In fact, if you have dry powder, it’s a great buying opportunity.

You just have to make sure you have enough in cash to cover emergencies, so you don’t have to sell in a down market. Then, enjoy the ride back up!

 

[Flash]

Think only Dems don't plan for retirement?

What's your solution for people who have 401k's who set a retirement date then have the stock market tank wiping out their retirement savings? Start over again & work till they're 90 or they drop?

I don't have a solution because it is none of my business.

My business is to plan for my retirement and it is your business to plan for yours.

If you don't do it right then that is your problem. If I don't do it right then it is my problem.

 

[Couchpotato]

The Republican position, in a nutshell: Social Security isn't really an investment system, it's basically a ponzi scheme where the government taxes you, spends it on current payments, and legislatively (pseudo-arbitrarily) chooses how much to pay out and when. It would be better to abolish it and leave that money in the hands of people who can then use the free market to choose if, when, and how to invest and spend their money.

The Democrat position, in a nutshell: Social Security isn't just about retirement, it's really about providing a fundamental safety net. Disability is funded through Social Security also, and it would be unfathomable for the disabled to end up homeless and dying on the street. And the fact of the matter is that many people end up not being good at being disciplined enough to invest in their retirements adequately so if we take away Social Security we'll have tons of old people becoming homeless and dying on the streets from exposure and hunger. Social Security can be saved and made solvent with again with updated adjustments to the pseudo-arbitrary tax and spending levels.

The solution:
Keep Social Security and restructure it. One half of SS taxes go to funding disability programs. The other half gets privatized and directed to a 401k or IRA of the taxpayer's choosing. The result would be much like an employer sponsored retirement plan, except that the taxpayer would have more control to choose with whom and how their retirement funds are invested.

Why should it be so difficult for either side to agree to this?

Does the “investor” get to pass the wealth he built on to his family if he doesn’t use all of it in His lifetime?

 

[Lesh]

So you just hold on until the market recovers. In fact, if you have dry powder, it’s a great buying opportunity.

Unless you're looking to retire or just HAVE retired when the crash happens...

Oh and don't get cold feet...like most peple do and sell as the market drops because you don't know how low it will get or if it ever WILL come back.

My brother in law cashed out half his 401 when the covid crash came...because there was no guarantee it would EVER come back...I told him not to but...hey...

Lost a boatload

 

[Lesh]

You just have to make sure you have enough in cash to cover emergencies, so you don’t have to sell in a down market. Then, enjoy the ride back up!

Sounds like you're sitting on a lot of cash.

If you're counting on using the money that would have gone into Social Security as your investment...you ain't GOT that kind of cash

 

[CowboyTed]

Cuz people don’t want old people dying in the streets and clogging up street corners and hospitals just because they didn’t save.

Got to laugh... The so called christians ae the ones that will leave old people to die...

The same people will say where abortion is an ultimate sin even though Jesus never mentioned it and in other places is is vague...

Jesus specifically said to look after the poor. There is no ambiguity about that... The right here are just setting it up so there will be winners and losers... They should know that getting rid or defunding SS will just create more poor and also make it harder for them... This goes beyond christian, it is about basic morality...

1. Luke 6:20-21
   Then he looked up at his disciples and said: ‘Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.’
2. Luke 4:16-19
   When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written: ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favour.’
3. Matthew 25:34-36
   Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’
4. Mark 10:21-22
   Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, ‘You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
5. Mark 12:41-44
   He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. Then he called his disciples and said to them, ‘Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.’
6. Luke 14:12-14
   He said also to the one who had invited him, ‘When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.’
7. Luke 16:19-25
   There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried.
8. Luke 11:39-42
   Then the Lord said to him, ‘Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You fools! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? So give for alms those things that are within; and see, everything will be clean for you. But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and herbs of all kinds, and neglect justice and the love of God.’
9. Luke 12:16-21
   Then he told them a parable: ‘The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, ‘What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?’ Then he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, ‘Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.’ But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God.’

 

[Rigby5]

The Republican position, in a nutshell: Social Security isn't really an investment system, it's basically a ponzi scheme where the government taxes you, spends it on current payments, and legislatively (pseudo-arbitrarily) chooses how much to pay out and when. It would be better to abolish it and leave that money in the hands of people who can then use the free market to choose if, when, and how to invest and spend their money.

The Democrat position, in a nutshell: Social Security isn't just about retirement, it's really about providing a fundamental safety net. Disability is funded through Social Security also, and it would be unfathomable for the disabled to end up homeless and dying on the street. And the fact of the matter is that many people end up not being good at being disciplined enough to invest in their retirements adequately so if we take away Social Security we'll have tons of old people becoming homeless and dying on the streets from exposure and hunger. Social Security can be saved and made solvent with again with updated adjustments to the pseudo-arbitrary tax and spending levels.

The solution:
Keep Social Security and restructure it. One half of SS taxes go to funding disability programs. The other half gets privatized and directed to a 401k or IRA of the taxpayer's choosing. The result would be much like an employer sponsored retirement plan, except that the taxpayer would have more control to choose with whom and how their retirement funds are invested.

Why should it be so difficult for either side to agree to this?

Many reasons to not touch Social Security.

One is that the SS surplus is used to finance the national debt, and if you did not have that, we would all have to pay a whole lot more on taxes, in order to finance the national debt, and we would not get back any of that money.

Another reason is that private 401K programs are extremely risky because they are almost always put into the stock market, that is totally unproductive. It can only go up for some people, as much as it goes down for someone else. There is no injection of funds from anywhere else except stock buyers. So for ever winner, there has to be a loser.
And there are lots of losers. Like all the thousands of people who put all their retirement funds into Exxon.
Private pension funds are vastly too risky.
Since we can't let anyone get kicked out on the street, again all that would do is vastly raise taxes.

 

[Rigby5]

How about this then?

We make SS voluntary?

If you don't want to be in the program then you don't have to be.

That way if you really trust the government bureaucrats to provide for your retirement then you can sign up for it.

If you don't save for retirement or if you don't get the government to do it for you then you are shit out of luck and it is your own damn fault?

Sound fair?

Wrong.
Almost no one can or does properly plan for retirement unless forced to.
They feel invincible and do not understand or are able to afford what retirement means or requires.

And even those who TRY to invest privately for retirement in a 401k, still often get wiped out through no fault of their own.
Stock are a horrible and insane means of investing, as the stock market constantly crashes on a cyclic basis.
You buy and own ZERO equity in anything when you buy stocks.
They can instantly become worth nothing.
Investing in stocks for retirement is totally insane.

 

[Rigby5]

Funny how social security is constantly running out of money but welfare isn't

It is only a temporary bubble from the Boomer generation.
By 2040, Social Security will be fine again.

But actually there is no real welfare.
The closest thing is ADC, (Aid to Dependent Children) and Disability, and both of those come out of the Social Security surplus.

 

[Lesh]

Many reasons to not touch Social Security.

One is that the SS surplus is used to finance the national debt, and if you did not have that, we would all have to pay a whole lot more on taxes, in order to finance the national debt, and we would not get back any of that money.

Another reason is that private 401K programs are extremely risky because they are almost always put into the stock market, that is totally unproductive. It can only go up for some people, as much as it goes down for someone else. There is no injection of funds from anywhere else except stock buyers. So for ever winner, there has to be a loser.
And there are lots of losers. Like all the thousands of people who put all their retirement funds into Exxon.
Private pension funds are vastly too risky.
Since we can't let anyone get kicked out on the street, again all that would do is vastly raise taxes.

The last thing any of us needs is a Russian sock puppet telling us anything about Social Security.

Fuckem

 

[Rigby5]

The same way we paid for the trillions used to bail out Wall Street.

Wall St paid that all back.
It was just a temporary loan.

 

[Lesh]

Wall St paid that all back.
It was just a temporary loan.

Nope. No Russian sock puppets need chime in.

Thanks

 

[Rigby5]

The last thing any of us needs is a Russian sock puppet telling us anything about Social Security.

Fuckem

Social Security is an open book.
No one needs to be taught anything about how SS works.
But people DO need to learn that the stock market is an insane place to put money.
It is NOT at all stable, companies frequently go under, leaving behind worthless stock.
And even companies that are doing well, can have their stock go down due to a simple market prejudice or misunderstanding.
Again, just look at what happened to all those 401k programs invested in Exxon.
They all dropped to a value of zero.
Watch this:

 

[pknopp]

Wall St paid that all back.
It was just a temporary loan.

No they didn't.

 

[Winco]

Funny how social security is constantly running out of money but welfare isn't

SS is constantly running out of money?

I'm sure you know you are incorrect.
But maybe you are that misinformed.

 

[Lisa558]

Unless you're looking to retire or just HAVE retired when the crash happens...

Oh and don't get cold feet...like most peple do and sell as the market drops because you don't know how low it will get or if it ever WILL come back.

My brother in law cashed out half his 401 when the covid crash came...because there was no guarantee it would EVER come back...I told him not to but...hey...

Lost a boatload

That’s why you need to have cash. So even if the market tanks when you first retire, you live off the cash + SS, and just ride the market back up.

As far as the COVID crash, not only did I not sell, I was looking to scoop up some bargains. Problem was that the market rebounded SO quickly - really sharp V - that I hesitated for a brief time and lost the opportunity.

 

[Lesh]

That’s why you need to have cash.

Which most people don't have. Yea I know YOU do...but who gives a shit. We don't make national policy based on you.

As far as the COVID crash, not only did I not sell, I was looking to scoop up some bargains.

A lot of people DID sell...because they were scared...and lost a lot of their retirement. That's how it works with the market

 

[Rigby5]

I wrote Exxon bankruptcy, and I meant Enron.

 

[Rigby5]

No they didn't.

Yes they did.
It would be illegal for the government to give funds to only a few companies, not all, and not require payback.