The American Genocide of the Indians—Historical Facts and Real Evidence

[Vastator]

What, you never heard of the Old Copper Culture?

https://www.science.org/content/article/ancient-native-americans-were-among-world-s-first-coppersmiths

Interesting. No I hadn't heard. Regardless it appears they did little more than cold hammer, and grind unusually pure ore, in much the manner they would have stone, bone, or wood. And when the easy pickings ran out, they didn't pursue refinement, and continued usage. Much akin to the Aztecs using gold. It could be worked cold, as such that's what they did. Despite this, they were still for all intents, and purposes a stone age culture...

 

[martybegan]

Interesting. No I hadn't heard. Regardless it appears they did little more than cold hammer, and grind unusually pure ore, in much the manner they would have stone, bone, or wood. And when the easy pickings ran out, they didn't pursue refinement, and continued usage. Much akin to the Aztecs using gold. It could be worked cold, as such that's what they did. Despite this, they were still for all intents, and purposes a stone age culture...

Europe didn't get into the Iron Age until they could refine and smelt iron, working meteoric iron didn't count.

 

[Mushroom]

Pie in the sky conjecture posited by the the single radio carbon dating of one bone, mixed in with heavy doses of Grahm Hancock style imaginary history. In short you link is a joke.

Wow, you so easily just reject something because you do not want to believe it.

However, the oldest route for importation of chickens to the Americas appears to be through Polynesia prior to Columbus. At the archaeological site of El Arenal in coastal Chile, excavators found 50 chicken bones that represented at least five different chickens. As Storey and colleagues report in another article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the site has been confidently dated to 700-1390 AD, meaning these bones are the earliest evidence of chickens in the Americas, having arrived at least a century before Columbus.

Ancient DNA Explains How Chickens Got To The Americas

Why did the chicken cross the Pacific? To get to your Thanksgiving table!

www.forbes.com

Here is the entire study, in case you are actually interested.

Home | EIF

islandheritage.org

But it was not "one bone", and it is now pretty widely accepted.

Just like the Old Copper Culture, simply because you have never heard of it, does not mean it did not exist.

 

[Mushroom]

And when the easy pickings ran out, they didn't pursue refinement, and continued usage.

Wow, you obviously looked over none of the actual references I posted, did you? You are just making up your own theory based on absolutely no evidence at all.

And why would they pursue "refinement"? It was already almost pure copper. However, that was also only the groups around where native copper could be found.

In modern Mexico, they were making bronze, as they had in Eurasia. Because the copper was not pure, and had to be smelted out of the ore. And it had the same natural ingredients that allowed those in Eurasia to also discover bronze.

You know, it might actually be a good idea to do some actual research, instead of simply dismissing things you do not like.

 

[fncceo]

Tecumseh was forming a warband of over 1,000 warriors, and his group and others had been attacking settlers and settlements for months prior. And the conflict continued for years afterwards

And Tecumsah's statue at The US Naval Academy, is honored and revered.

He is lauded as a noble adversary.

 

[Mushroom]

And Tecumsah's statue at The US Naval Academy, is honored and revered.

He is lauded as a noble adversary.

Of course. Just as Chief Solano was revered by the Spanish and they named a region of California that is now Solano County after him. Even though he led a rebellion against them.

Simply dismissing and demonizing an adversary is a rather recent thing from what I have seen. And to be honest, I never understood it. I myself have paid respects to Japanese soldiers killed in battle at war cemeteries in Japan. And there are groups throughout Europe wo maintain and respectfully care for cemeteries for German soldiers killed in both World Wars.

Hell, one of the greatest Union Generals was partially named after him. William Tecumseh Sherman's middle name was given to him because his father was one of those that respected the Shawnee leader. And it must be remembered that his father, Charles Sherman served as an officer in the Ohio Militia in the war and fought against him.

 

[Vastator]

Wow, you so easily just reject something because you do not want to believe it.

Ancient DNA Explains How Chickens Got To The Americas

Why did the chicken cross the Pacific? To get to your Thanksgiving table!

www.forbes.com

Here is the entire study, in case you are actually interested.

Home | EIF

islandheritage.org

But it was not "one bone", and it is now pretty widely accepted.

Just like the Old Copper Culture, simply because you have never heard of it, does not mean it did not exist.

"According to Storey and colleagues, the domestic chicken came to the Americas by multiple routes."

I prefer more solid, peer reviewed studies, over articles simply published. Interesting if true. But not in keeping with what the majority of archeologists conclusions.

 

[Mushroom]

I prefer more solid, peer reviewed studies

laughs

It is peer reviewed. As I said, you simply are one of those that rejects anything you do not agree with.

Have a nice day.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Savages ? calling Native Indians savages Lol!, some of you people have not learned a damn thing since Sand Creek or Wounded Knee through to the lynchings of black people and the Genocidal wars that have killed millions like Vietnam, and you talk of savages.

No written language,no wheel,believe in spirits wantonly killing other tribes.
Yeah I'd call them savages because thats what they were.

 

[sparky]

4 pages of identity crisis......~S~

 

[EvilCat Breath]

That is not true at all, they were advancing.

One thing that should be remembered, is that today most anthropologists believe that North American Indians were the first to use copper. Actually predating the use in Eurasia by at least 2,000 years. So quite literally, while those in Europe, Asia, and Africa were still using at most stone tools and weapons, a lot of the Americas were already using copper. Primarily because North America has the largest deposit of native copper on the planet. So literally all they had to do was pull it out of the ground and beat it into shape.

However, that same easy to use copper was also long term the problem, as they never had to develop the refining or smelting techniques that were used in the rest of the world to actually convert copper ore into a useful end product. And without that, they never looked into alloys, like bronze. There were a few cultures that actually did develop bronze by 1500, but it had barely made the leap from jewelry to tools, and not really to weapons yet.

They were advancing, but much more slowly as they had a much lower population density. And they had other barriers that slowed their progress. Like the aforementioned large amounts of native copper, so they never had to learn about smelting and refining raw ore. Also, the very noticeable lack of any kind of animals that could be domesticated into beasts of burden. The rest of the world had camels, horses, cattle, donkeys, and more that could be domesticated into beasts of burden. The Americas had none of that, other than in South America where they had the llama.

Lack of any animals that could be readily domesticated other than chickens and ducks also did a lot to hold back their agricultural and technological development. That is why I often laugh when people wonder that they did not have the wheel. Oh, they had it, but only for toys. Because quite literally, without an animal to pull a cart like oxen or horses, what use is a cart in the first place? Why would anybody invent something they could not use?

The Aztecs had the wheel as a toy. The North American Natives never developed the wheel. They hauled goods on a sled called a travois. It could be pulled by a horse or even a dog.
There was no written language and little way to disseminate information.

The relationship between the Natives and European settlers was far from simply divided between enemies. It was quite complicated. The Natives had no concept of property. The mere idea of owning land was unheard of. They knew hunting rights. When whites offered to buy land, the Indians were happy to sell. They just sold the hunting land of other tribes. Then the whites put up fences. Certainly cause for war.

 

[Deadstick]

No written language,no wheel,believe in spirits wantonly killing other tribes.
Yeah I'd call them savages because thats what they were.

I bet you regret you could not have been there to wipe some out.

 

[Hellbilly]

No written language,

Wrong as usual.

Cherokee

 

[Mushroom]

No written language. no wheel, believe in spirits wantonly killing other tribes

The Mayans, the Aztecs, the Zapotecs, the Incans, the Olmecs. They all had written languages.

And they did indeed have the wheel. What they lacked was beasts of burden to pull anything even remotely like a cart. So there was never any reason to develop it into anything useful.

And you really do not know much ab out Indian mythology, do you? That is nothing like any of their beliefs, and I would love you to give some kinds of links saying that is anything even close to true.

 

[Mushroom]

Wrong as usual.

View attachment 868900
Cherokee

OK, the Cherokee did not have a written language.

What you are posting the written Cherokee language, as created by Sequoyah in the 1820s. It is not pre-Columbian.

 

[martybegan]

The Mayans, the Aztecs, the Zapotecs, the Incans, the Olmecs. They all had written languages.

Note the title of the thread, those weren't around when or where the US or the British Colonies were around.

Were there written languages in NORTH America?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I bet you regret you could not have been there to wipe some out.

Yeah....it's a real shame.
I was born way to late.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wrong as usual.

View attachment 868900
Cherokee

Bullshit.
The Cherokee used English letters?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The Mayans, the Aztecs, the Zapotecs, the Incans, the Olmecs. They all had written languages.

And they did indeed have the wheel. What they lacked was beasts of burden to pull anything even remotely like a cart. So there was never any reason to develop it into anything useful.

And you really do not know much ab out Indian mythology, do you? That is nothing like any of their beliefs, and I would love you to give some kinds of links saying that is anything even close to true.

We're talking about American indians.

 

[Mushroom]

The Aztecs had the wheel as a toy. The North American Natives never developed the wheel. They hauled goods on a sled called a travois. It could be pulled by a horse or even a dog.
There was no written language and little way to disseminate information.

And as I have stated several times, without a beast of burden, what use was there for a wheel? On the uneven ground they lived in, a travois was actually more efficient than the wheel was. Hell, many European cultures also use the travois until fairly recent times. For the exact same reason, and they had beasts of burden.

But pre-Columbian, there was no such thin in the Americas as a horse drawn travois, they had no horses. They were pulled by people, or by dogs.

And there were multiple written languages. I already listed multiple written languages, do I need to list them again?

The relationship between the Natives and European settlers was far from simply divided between enemies. It was quite complicated. The Natives had no concept of property. The mere idea of owning land was unheard of. They knew hunting rights. When whites offered to buy land, the Indians were happy to sell. They just sold the hunting land of other tribes. Then the whites put up fences. Certainly cause for war.

Of that I am very aware. In fact, they had no concept of owning anything you could not carry with you for the most part.

And they did have a somewhat concept of ownership of land, but it was not permanent. A tribe in order to avoid war, exchange brides, or other reasons would have an exchange of something with another for favorable rights to use an area of land. However, it was not permanent. So they understood something like "If we give you three baskets of obsidian, you let us remain at where these two rivers meet for the year". Or "We give you three daughters, and we get to stay in this valley for a year". But as you said, there was no concept of permanent ownership so they were always for a period of time.

So when the Europeans were offering what sounded to them like the same deal, they had no problem accepting it. And of course they often had no problem selling land that they did not even live on in the first place. Like most famously Peter Minuit, who bought the land from essentially poachers who were traveling through the area and did not actually live there.