I suspect not one American in 500 knows about the Massacre of 1622.

[Seymour Flops]

My post was deleted yesterday as off topic.

In July 1610, West sent Gates against the Kecoughtan. "Gates lured the Indians into the open by the means of music-and-dance by his drummer, and then slaughtered them. "

Indian massacre of 1622 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If that is true then you are subjected to an injustice in my opinion. Assuming what you say is the whole truth.

Perhaps not as big an injustice as the settlers or the native tribal people who were slaughtered.

But an injustice none the less.

 

[pknopp]

If that is true then you are subjected to an injustice in my opinion. Assuming what you say is the whole truth.

Perhaps not as big an injustice as the settlers or the native tribal people who were slaughtered.

But an injustice none the less.

As close as I recall my entire post was.....

"don't we need to mention the slaughter of native Americans before this"?

 

[Seymour Flops]

• Territorial Encroachment: As the English tobacco economy grew, settlers increasingly seized prime agricultural lands, displacing the Powhatan people.

I don't find that claim very credible at all.

Why would white settlers want to take farmland that had been farmed already by the native tribal people? There was more available free land then anything else? Except perhaps oxygen and water.

Why would they risk land that might be farmed out when they could have fresh brand new land?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Savagery.

Tulsa race massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Obvious Rest of the Story

The Aframs were hooking White teenagers on drugs. Only time they've done that?

 

[Kruska]

Interesting.

How did that work out for him?

Gave the Colonists something to think about, (around 900 of them got killed) and provided his tribe 4 more years of survival.

At the time they used to call it: better to die in honor and up-keeping tradition - then becoming enslaved and robbed of their lands, culture and traditions.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Apparently the indians fought every f***ing group they ever came in contact with.

Invade and take land, and guess what happens.

 

[jacksonlamb]

The Obvious Rest of the Story

The Aframs were hooking White teenagers on drugs. Only time they've done that?

Klan lie.

 

[pknopp]

The Obvious Rest of the Story

The Aframs were hooking White teenagers on drugs. Only time they've done that?

You can make whatever crap up you want but it changes nothing.

 

[jacksonlamb]

You can make whatever crap up you want but it changes nothing.

But let her change the crap. We don't want to.

 

[Godboy]

Right, it was the men who captured and tortured people. What is your point? It that supposed to refute anything that I have said. ? If you think so spell it out, YOU are uniquely savage in your racism, hate and ethnocentric stupidity.

You clearly dont know the history of indians. Yes the men also tortured captives, but MOST of the torture was done by the women of the tribe. There are MANY horror stories from people who survived these ordeals.

From Google AI -

Yes, historical accounts and anthropological studies indicate that Native American women—particularly in Eastern Woodlands societies like the Iroquois and Huron—played a major role in the prolonged torture of male captives, often serving as the primary executors of this ritualistic violence.

While warriors were responsible for capturing enemies, the prisoners were often turned over to the women of the village, who were tasked with administering retribution for the loss of their own kin in war.
Arkansas State University +2
Key Aspects of Women’s Role in Torture:

• Ritualistic Vengeance: The torture of male captives was often not motivated by raw brutality, but was a religious and social ritual designed to avenge deaths within the tribe.
• "Making Women" of Captives: The torture of male captives served as an effeminating act, where women would humiliate captives, often referred to as "making them women" in a social sense.
• The Gauntlet and Torture Roles: Women and children often participated in the "gauntlet," where captives were forced to run between lines of villagers who would strike, burn, or cut them. 17th-century reports detail women using methods such as cutting, biting, and using fire on prisoners.
• Surviving Evidence: Jesuit missionaries in the 17th century documented Huron and Iroquois women actively torturing prisoners.
  Fisher Digital Publications +3

Contextual Factors:

• Not All Tribes: This practice was more common among the Eastern Woodlands and some Plains cultures, rather than all Native American tribes.
• Survival or Death: While captives were often killed through torture, they could also be spared, adopted, or enslaved, with women and children prisoners usually being kept alive and integrated into the tribe, while adult men faced a higher likelihood of torture.
• Difference from European Perspectives: The active role of women in such violence often shocked European settlers, who brought different cultural expectations regarding the roles of women.

 

[Godboy]

Right, it was the men who captured and tortured people. What is your point? It that supposed to refute anything that I have said. ? If you think so spell it out, YOU are uniquely savage in your racism, hate and ethnocentric stupidity.

The Story of Matilda Lockhart
The Capture (1838): At age 13, Matilda and several other children were kidnapped by a Penateka Comanche raiding party in Guadalupe County, Texas.

The Injuries: After two years of captivity, she was brought to San Antonio in March 1840 for a prisoner exchange. Witnesses, including Mary Maverick, described her as being "utterly degraded" and physically mutilated. Most notably, her nose had been burned off to the bone; she explained that Comanche women would wake her by shoving burning wood into her face.

The Outbreak of War: Matilda informed Texan officials that the Comanche were still holding 13 more captives, despite their claims to have brought everyone. This revelation, combined with the visible evidence of her torture, led the Texans to attempt to seize the Comanche chiefs as hostages until the others were released.
The Council House Fight: This attempted seizure turned into a bloody melee inside the San Antonio Council House, resulting in the deaths of 35 Comanches (including 12 chiefs) and 7 Texans.

 

[Godboy]

Invade and take land, and guess what happens.

A few million scattered indians claimed the entirety of North America? Nah, if you cant control your territory, then it never belonged to you in the first place.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Both sides were brutal, both.

 

[jacksonlamb]

A few million scattered indians claimed the entirety of North America? Nah, if you cant control your territory, then it never belonged to you in the first place.

We are talking about the land they lived on and used.

 

[Godboy]

We are talking about the land they lived on and used.

They did a shitty job at governing their territories. They should have tried diplomacy instead of butchering innocent families. They were steamrolled as a result of this failure.

This is human evolution. Weak cultures die off, strong cultures get stronger, and the entire world then reaps the rewards.

 

[jacksonlamb]

They did a shitty job at governing their territories. They should have tried diplomacy instead of butchering innocent families. They were steamrolled as a result of this failure.

This is human evolution. Weak cultures die off, strong cultures get stronger, and the entire world then reaps the rewards.

they were a paleolithic people doing very well on their land that they used

Yes, the Euro-Americans should have tried diplomacy.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Gave the Colonists something to think about, (around 900 of them got killed) and provided his tribe 4 more years of survival.

At the time they used to call it: better to die in honor and up-keeping tradition - then becoming enslaved and robbed of their lands, culture and traditions.

Indigians

Their lands: Up for grabs from any neighboring tribe at any time.

Their culture: Thrill-killing intertribal genocide.

Their traditions: Unevolved since the Stone Age.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You can make whatever crap up you want but it changes nothing.

The Way They Were Wasn't

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Both sides were brutal, both.

The Whites Were into Creative Destruction; the Ferals Were into Perpetual Destruction

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yes, the Euro-Americans should have tried diplomacy.

Mumbling at Munich