The Aftermath of the Trial

[numan]

I do not regard Americans as congenitally or uniquely stupid and deluded -- their pre-eminence in these qualities in the modern world is due to the simple fact that US wealth and power make Americans the most profitable to brainwash and exploit by the most evil elements of modern society.

Americans were never a particularly admirable lot, but compared to the exceedingly low level of mind and character of most modern Americans, the Americans before World War II look like heroes and sages.

I could care less if Numan attacks "me" personally. If he disagrees with my points or thinks I'm an idiot then he should feel free to say so.

If you go over my postings, you will find that at no point did I attack you personally -- with the possible exception of referring to you as "Mr. Antiquated" -- jocosely playing on your web name. If you found that offensive, I apologize. I think it is more correct to say that you attacked me personally, though, of course, this is immaterial to me. If you imagine that I attacked you personally, it can only be because I do not agree with views you hold dear.
Now I do know that many, many Americans regard anything less than fulsome and overblown jingoism as personally insulting and tantamount to treason -- yet I maintain it is not so.

While I do like both of you, there is something we can do about this. Numan stated that Americans were never a particularly admirable lot. You can chip away at that piece he put on the board by posting each and every exceptional American throughout history, from George Washington Carver to John F. Kennedy. When he makes broad assertions like that, he makes himself vulnerable....

And, on the whole, Wake, I rather like you -- so far. Yet I find a certain illogic in regarding "never a particularly admirable lot" as being especially insulting. After all, it merely means "fair to middling". This may be offensive to the pompous and self-important jingoism which, over the years, has made Uncle Sam such a figure of mockery all over the world, I cannot see that any rational person would be offended by it.

While, ever since the Insurrectionary Terrorists established the Republic so long ago, I have found the political figures of American history a rather depressing lot, I can think of many Americans I admire -- if you will just grant me a little time to recollect.

I do have a soft spot in my heart for Nathaniel Hawthorne. How could one not warm to an American capable of saying,

"The United States are suited for many admirable purposes, but not to live in."

That "are" is a nice period touch, don't you think?

.

 

[Caroljo]

Who shot Trayvon for being a thug? He was shot because he committed a violent act.

Oh, and there aren't any Zimmerman groupies, only Trayvon Groupies. You don't see us wearing Trayvon T-shirts.

If I had a son, he would look like Zimmerman.

if the truth be told if Obama had a son at probably look more like Zimmerman

Maybe not....Moochelle is darker that Barak. She is full black isn't she? Lol! Guess I've never looked into that! Anyway, his son would have had bigger ears.

 

[numan]

Are you the pot or the kettle?

I think of myself as the snowy linen napkin whom the pots and the kettles call black.

.

 

[freedombecki]

Trayvon Martin was a thug in training. This is not important except in one respect. Was being a young thug, just trying his wings, the kind of person who would have a propensity to attack others? The jury, upon the testimony of Rachel Jeantel that Martin probably threw the first punch, concluded that he was.

There's very little question that Trayvon Martin gave George Zimmerman a beating before Zimmerman pulled a gun and shot him. It was about as clear cut a case of self defense as I've ever seen yet Martin's actions have been excused because he was "followed". I'm sorry but since when did following someone at a distance after calling the Police to report suspicious activity become an excuse for assault & battery?

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
The above bigoted comments are from just the first page of this thread. Need I say more? Do you understand now why Zimmerman's racial profiling of an unarmed black youth--leading to him actively pursuing and then executing the unarmed youth, after which Zimmerman got off scott free--is such an outrage to Black people?


Zimmerman's remark to the 911 operator was that an African American kid who appeared about 18 years old was looking “like he’s up to no good.” That's called racial profiling.


Zimmerman then got out of his car and pursued the juvenile. Zimmerman said under his breath: "They always get away." Assigning the word "they" in negative undertones to an entire ethnic group is called racial profiling. Below is a weblink as well as a video of the 911 phone call. Listen for the following statements.


Zimmerman to Operator: "He's running."

911 Operator to Zimmerman: "Are you following him?"

Zimmerman to Operator: "Yeah."

911 Operator to Zimmerman: "Okay, we don't need you to do that. Okay?"

Raw: 911 call Zimmerman made to Sanford police (Explicit) | www.wftv.com

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOpGAOXL5Uk"]Trayvon Martin 911 Call - YouTube[/ame]


Trayvon phoned his girlfriend and informed her that he was being pursued by a "Cracker" aka Whitie. By then, the youth was in a fight or flight situation. He was running, trying to get away, with Zimmerman in hot pursuit.


QUESTION to Katzndogz, freedombecki, and Oldstyle: What would you have done if you were Trayvon and you found yourself being pursued by a complete stranger for reasons unknown?


The forum would like to know.




Operator describes George Zimmerman's 911 call on Trayvon Martin

Prosecutor Richard Mantei focused on the words used in that call, particularly when Noffke asked Zimmerman if he was following Martin.

“Why did you ask … 'Are you following him?'” the prosecutor asked Noffke.

“It sounded like movement and wind coming through the phone, after [Zimmerman] stated the subject was running,” Noffke said.

“How come you didn’t … say ‘don’t follow'?” the prosecutor asked him.

Noffke explained that for legal reasons, 911 operators may not give such orders. “We’re directly liable if we give a direct order,” he said. “We always try to give general basic … not commands, just suggestions.”

Under cross-examination, Noffke told defense attorney Mark O’Mara, “It’s best to avoid any kind of confrontation, to just get away from the situation,” a comment that might bolster prosecution allegations that the incident could have been avoided if Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle.
Operator describes George Zimmerman's 911 call on Trayvon Martin - latimes.com

Did you actually watch the trial? You make statements that lead me to believe that you've made your mind up about this case based on the narrative that was put out by the Martin families attorney's leading up to the case...a narrative that the main stream media chose to go with rather than examining who these two people REALLY were and what the evidence indicated happened that night.

Let's take the Zimmerman phone call...

So much has been made that the dispatcher told George Zimmerman "We don't need you to do that." Somehow THAT indicates to you that Zimmerman was breaking the law in some way. Quite frankly that's an absurd conclusion and I'll tell you why.

First of all the reason that Zimmerman may have gotten OUT of his SUV and attempted to follow Trayvon Martin is that same dispatcher had just asked him if he could see which way the suspicious teenager had run. It's at THAT point that Zimmerman exits his truck and tries to follow Martin. Is Zimmerman simply trying to do what the dispatcher is asking?

Secondly, what is Zimmerman's response when the dispatcher realizes that he may be out of his vehicle and trying to run after the fleeing teen? The dispatcher says "We don't need you to do that." and Zimmerman responds with "OK". Not "He's getting away!" Not "I'm tired of these kids getting away!" No, Zimmerman replies "OK". Then he starts walking back to his SUV while trying to figure out where he's going to meet the Police.

Thirdly, the admonition from the dispatcher isn't because he feels that Zimmerman is breaking any laws. The dispatcher said what he did out of concern for Zimmerman's safety because (and this is crucial!) the Police are scared to death of being liable if something happens to someone who is following their instructions.

Now back to your question about what "I" would do if I were pursued by a stranger at night. First of all what I would NEVER do...is leave a safe area and return to a dangerous one. I don't think ANY rationale person would do that...yet that's EXACTLY what Trayvon Martin DID! When he ran from Zimmerman he was in the area of the townhouse he was staying at when Rachel Jenteal called him back...breathing hard from running away. That townhouse is over 120 yards from where the fight took place...that townhouse is over 120 yards away from the "creepy assed Cracker" that was following Trayvon! Yet somehow, Martin managed to end up Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back at the T of those sidewalks confronting George Zimmerman! So explain how that happens, Alter if Martin doesn't MAKE it happen?

What anyone thinks is irrelevant when the jury rules that the killing was in self-defense and not murder in the second degree and not manslaughter, either.

What I do think is that this should never have gone to trial. The threshold was met to declare it a case of self-defense, and nothing else. The cops said it first, the forensics said it agreed, the defense tried to get the case dismissed on self-defense, and finally, the jury agreed it was self-defense. It's over. Talking won't undo the correct verdict of self-defense.

 

[beagle9]

One thing is good, is that we did get a trial, because this was bad until the trial shut the wild west lynching party and/or it's self proclaimed and promoted confused posse down finally. The WHITE Hispanic ? Give me a break, this cat was heavily Hispanic in skin color or tone, but they (the race hustlers) wanted him to be white as in whitey (aka creepy cracka), so bad that it wasn't even funny in this case. Oops!

 

[Gadawg73]

Exceptional America is easy to plot.

The trajectory of almost every measure of progress under Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Another measure of the pride in America is the attitude towards America when our news came from Morrow, Swazy, Cronkite, the NYTimes, main stream media in general vs the constant America bashing of Fox News, Rush and his cronies, and right wing media sites, and, yes, the GOP.

The assault on American exceptionalism is almost an entirely right wing attack on everything American. Including the right to walk the street unarmed.

You want to walk the street unarmed? Have at it.
Who is going to stop you? Mama?

 

[Gadawg73]

Are you the pot or the kettle?

I think of myself as the snowy linen napkin whom the pots and the kettles call black.

.

No, you are an ugly as sin mother fucker in a wheel chair.

 

[Oldstyle]

Someone making the statement that Americans were not exceptional has already proven themselves to be ignorant of history. While America is becoming less and less exceptional with each passing year because of our dependence on a cradle to the grave Nanny State, it is still head and shoulders above most of the rest of the world.

Trying to educate someone like Numan about that however would be a total waste of time. He'll simply reply that I'm an American "liar". That's his stock reply to all viewpoints he has no counter to.

No, I give Numan the benefit of the doubt, because I believe in him as well as you. I'll agree with you that America does seem to be becoming less exceptional because of the cradle-to-the-grave governmental effect. Maybe Numan would open his ears up a bit more to you (general you) if he wasn't getting called names or having his own ideas or personal affects ridiculed. It takes at least two to build a bridge (I think, considering the latest technology).

There is a style and a way to winning people over. It must be genuine, and it takes an effort on your part to be nice to people. I'd really like to see you two hash it out on arguments and ideas alone, so that we can try to find out exactly what the ideological "cruxes" are that you two aren't able to agree on. Maybe we can work that out?

You must not be reading the same Numan posts that I am, Wake. He's not here to argue ideology or exchange ideas...he's here to flame. You know it, I know it...and I'm confident that Numan not only would admit to it but indeed would REVEL in it.

The reason he makes the statements he does about Americans is that he knows it's going to get a rise out of someone. He doesn't have anything else to offer.

 

[jon_berzerk]

or a civil suit at. all.

;-)

true

it isnt like omara hasnt warned them

Are they smart enough

To heed the warning.

Seems Jesse isn't and is

Sticking his foot in it

Pretty badly.

There are consequences

For stupidity

did you get a chance to see the lawsuit filed by Ben Kruidbos

Causes of Action - Kruidbos - 92_57 - Complaint - Final (1)

have you heard anymore about the sanctions and other Finnish up

from the zimmerman trial

omara pretty much has the proof that someone at the FLDE scrubbed

or attempted to scrub martins cellphone

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Someone making the statement that Americans were not exceptional has already proven themselves to be ignorant of history. While America is becoming less and less exceptional with each passing year because of our dependence on a cradle to the grave Nanny State, it is still head and shoulders above most of the rest of the world.

Trying to educate someone like Numan about that however would be a total waste of time. He'll simply reply that I'm an American "liar". That's his stock reply to all viewpoints he has no counter to.

No, I give Numan the benefit of the doubt, because I believe in him as well as you. I'll agree with you that America does seem to be becoming less exceptional because of the cradle-to-the-grave governmental effect. Maybe Numan would open his ears up a bit more to you (general you) if he wasn't getting called names or having his own ideas or personal affects ridiculed. It takes at least two to build a bridge (I think, considering the latest technology).

There is a style and a way to winning people over. It must be genuine, and it takes an effort on your part to be nice to people. I'd really like to see you two hash it out on arguments and ideas alone, so that we can try to find out exactly what the ideological "cruxes" are that you two aren't able to agree on. Maybe we can work that out?

You must not be reading the same Numan posts that I am, Wake. He's not here to argue ideology or exchange ideas...he's here to flame. You know it, I know it...and I'm confident that Numan not only would admit to it but indeed would REVEL in it.

The reason he makes the statements he does about Americans is that he knows it's going to get a rise out of someone. He doesn't have anything else to offer.

On the character scale, you and numan are at opposite ends. But, you keep talking and see if another zombie takes up your torch.

 

[MHunterB]

Are you the pot or the kettle?

I think of myself as the snowy linen napkin whom the pots and the kettles call black.

.

Pop asked what you *are* - not how you imagine yourself. Speaking of gratuitously disingenuous responses which purvey terminological inexactitudes......

 

[testarosa]

true

it isnt like omara hasnt warned them

Are they smart enough

To heed the warning.

Seems Jesse isn't and is

Sticking his foot in it

Pretty badly.

There are consequences

For stupidity

did you get a chance to see the lawsuit filed by Ben Kruidbos

Causes of Action - Kruidbos - 92_57 - Complaint - Final (1)

have you heard anymore about the sanctions and other Finnish up

from the zimmerman trial

omara pretty much has the proof that someone at the FLDE scrubbed

or attempted to scrub martins cellphone

I was looking for you

In all the wrong places!

Yepper...gotcha.

Fireworks forthcoming

 

[testarosa]

Are they smart enough

To heed the warning.

Seems Jesse isn't and is

Sticking his foot in it

Pretty badly.

There are consequences

For stupidity

did you get a chance to see the lawsuit filed by Ben Kruidbos

Causes of Action - Kruidbos - 92_57 - Complaint - Final (1)

have you heard anymore about the sanctions and other Finnish up

from the zimmerman trial

omara pretty much has the proof that someone at the FLDE scrubbed

or attempted to scrub martins cellphone

I was looking for you

In all the wrong places!

Yepper...gotcha.

Fireworks forthcoming

Sanctions going to back burner

Waiting on the closet to be cleaned out

No one wants to be the one ruling

On that hot potato

 

[Pop23]

Are you the pot or the kettle?

I think of myself as the snowy linen napkin whom the pots and the kettles call black.

.

Pop asked what you *are* - not how you imagine yourself. Speaking of gratuitously disingenuous responses which purvey terminological inexactitudes......

I asked a simple question earlier based on what his side would do if they found themselves in a situation like Zimmerman

They could answer A or B. they all answered C

Same as always

Always a C, even when C does not exist

That's how the roll

 

[PMZ]

'C' always exists. Extremists believe in a world of 'A' and 'B', either black or white, when that's never the case.

That's why they so seldom are able to solve problems.

 

[Mertex]

Gee, you'd think that all of that trauma would leave some marks behind. Not to mention that you've heard only half of the story. You seem desperate to believe that half even though, with the other witness dead, who's to know if any of it is true.

Reasonable doubt is a very low bar.

You are glad that the witness is dead it seems now aren't you ? I mean I say this because it gives you the ability to just continue to opine and fantasize and/or inject your poison on this thread until you brow beat everyone to death all by yourself with it, and this by your knowing that the witness is dead in which gives you the ability to just sling it, and sling it, and to just sling it some more as based on that fact alone, in which you love to resort to just so you can take off in what ever direction next that you feel it will allow you to go ?

One could say the same thing about you (glad the witness is dead). The witness being dead cannot contradict what the criminal is saying, thus allowing him to get away with murder.

 

[Wake]

What's bothersome is that two nights ago Bill O'Reilly stated that TM didn't deserve to die. Any time a young person dies it's a tragedy... but what else was GZ supposed to do? Bill, he could have died, and during the heat of the moment GZ was running out of options.