Stand and be counted or sit down and shut up: Reflections on Colin as a patriot

[Billo_Really]

So you are saying that Trump does not have a right to express his opinion but the players do?

If the Moscow Giants were playing in the NFC East and its members took a knee during our national anthem, would Trump object to that?

 

[Cellblock2429]

/----/ The Moscow Giants only play sissy soccer. 4 hour game ending in 0-0

 

[Billo_Really]

I disagree that showing disrespect for our flag and the Republic is a form of patriotism.

There are many ways to protest and showing disrespect for our NATION is not one of them and still be a patriot.

These pampered spoiled morons need to wake up and realize that they are killing their little golden goose.

And frankly, I dont care if Colin is a patriot or not anyway as he is still disrespecting the flag.

I'll tell you what is disrespecting our flag...

- making a tire salesman Sec of the Treasury
- making a woman with no experience, Sec of Education
- making the CEO of Exxon, Sec of State
- making a man who sued the EPA on multiple occasions, Head of the EPA
- making a lobbyist for Turkey, National Security Adviser
- making a reality TV show personality with no diplomatic experience, President of the United States​

That's disrespecting our flag!

 

[Billo_Really]

/----/ The Moscow Giants only play sissy soccer. 4 hour game ending in 0-0

Hey, they play great defense? I think.

 

[Billo_Really]

Most of these NFL players would be in jail, on welfare, selling drugs, pimping or flipping burgers if they weren't good at running and jumping so they should get down on their knees and thank God they live in a country that made them millionaires.

Too bad the NFL owners don't have the courage to do the right thing and fire the sonofabitches. It will cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in the long run.

And the first guy to fire should be Tom Brady.

 

[jknowgood]

Totally different.

How is that different?

She took a stand on a bus, and made a point for the good. Kneeling at a national event for something that white people get the worse of than blacks is whinning .

 

[Desperado]

/----/ The Moscow Giants only play sissy soccer. 4 hour game ending in 0-0

Moscow Giants are socialist so a 0-0 tie is the perfect outcome and players for both teams get a participation award,

 

[Rustic]

Na, he's a really shitty football player and shittier person…
Political correctness is for the spineless

He's much better than the Colts and Vikings quarterbacks. That's proof he's being blackballed for his political views.

Na, he's just a very shitty quarterback, football player for that matter.

 

[Rustic]

I disagree that showing disrespect for our flag and the Republic is a form of patriotism.

There are many ways to protest and showing disrespect for our NATION is not one of them and still be a patriot.

These pampered spoiled morons need to wake up and realize that they are killing their little golden goose.

And frankly, I dont care if Colin is a patriot or not anyway as he is still disrespecting the flag.

I'll tell you what is disrespecting our flag...

- making a tire salesman Sec of the Treasury
- making a woman with no experience, Sec of Education
- making the CEO of Exxon, Sec of State
- making a man who sued the EPA on multiple occasions, Head of the EPA
- making a lobbyist for Turkey, National Security Adviser
- making a reality TV show personality with no diplomatic experience, President of the United States​

That's disrespecting our flag!

 

[Cellblock2429]

I disagree that showing disrespect for our flag and the Republic is a form of patriotism.

There are many ways to protest and showing disrespect for our NATION is not one of them and still be a patriot.

These pampered spoiled morons need to wake up and realize that they are killing their little golden goose.

And frankly, I dont care if Colin is a patriot or not anyway as he is still disrespecting the flag.

I'll tell you what is disrespecting our flag...

- making a tire salesman Sec of the Treasury
- making a woman with no experience, Sec of Education
- making the CEO of Exxon, Sec of State
- making a man who sued the EPA on multiple occasions, Head of the EPA
- making a lobbyist for Turkey, National Security Adviser
- making a reality TV show personality with no diplomatic experience, President of the United States​

That's disrespecting our flag!

/---/ Actually that is what the founding fathers had in mind. A Government by the people, of the people and for the people. Nowhere do they mention your corrupt career politicians.

 

[jknowgood]

Totally different.

How is that different?

How is this different?

 

[Freewill]

When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
-- Earl Nightingale [If you do nothing else with this post, listen to Earl]​

To my mind, a patriot, a genuine one, is a person who looks objectively at his/her country, sees the the reprobate and righteous, and in turn praises the good and denounces and moves to alter the bad.

Colin is clearly not trying to forsake his citizenship; thus he must necessarily see more good than bad about the U.S. He's doing what people of integrity do: bringing to bear the resources at their disposal to try to effect corrections of that which they see as errant.

"Everyday citizens" (people who hold neither formal nor overwhelming economic power) like Kaepernick do not deserve scorn and ridicule for doing exactly that. One need not agree with them or him; however, they and he deserve our respect for...

(a) unlike so many people -- especially some members here [1] -- who think of political discourse and conversation as entertainment,
(b) unlike so many who rail about all they think needs correcting yet won't get off their asses and join in discussions among individuals and organizations whereby one can actually be part of effecting positive change [2],​

Colin Kaepernick is not anonymously sitting before a computer screen typing vulgarities and personal slights at every person and idea that offends him or that doesn't align with the partisan rhetoric he heard on his favorite propaganda show. The man is expressing himself peacefully and quietly.

The U.S. has a long tradition of patriots who in their day "stood and were counted," people who openly spoke up about what they felt was wrong with their country and acted to see the ill(s) ended. Just a very few examples and individuals are noted below.

• 1668 Quaker Petition against slavery -- Garret Hendricks, Derick de Graeff, Francis Daniel Pastorius and Abraham up Den Graeff
• Boston Tea Party -- Samuel Adams and the Sons of Liberty
• American Revolution - [you had better know enough of the names that I don't need to list any]
• Civil Rights Movement
  • 1919 Chicago Riots -- 1500+ individuals who lost their lives and/or homes
  • 1939 Lincoln Memorial Concert -- Marian Anderson, Charlie Russel and Eleanor Roosevelt,
  • Montgomery Bus Boycott -- Rosa Parks and thousands of others who daily gave up hours of their lives due to unrecoverable time lost by having to find alternate means of transportation.
  • 1963 March on Washington -- Martin L. King, Jr.
  • 1965 Selma March -- MLK, Jr., Rep. John Lewis, J.L. Chestnut, Stokely Carmichael, Fay Powell, Hosea Williams, and many others.
  • Sit Ins -- I think the Woolworth's Lunch Counter one may be the most famous, but I have no idea of the names of the people who participated in them. I don't know that the things even were formally organized rather than being an organic development.
• Women's Suffrage and Equal Rights Movement
  • Seneca Falls Convention -- Lucretia Mott and Elizabeth Cady Stanton
    
  • 1968 Miss America Protest ("bra burning" -- the protest was real; the bra burning was not) -- Robin Morgan and some several hundred other women
• Vietnam Antiwar Movement
• Anti Globalization/Anti-WTO-IMF Movement
• Labor Movement
  • 1939 GM Tool and Die Workers Strike -- Walter Reuther
• Occupy Wall Street Movement

When I consider Colin Kaepernick's actions at a football game, I'm reminded of the "sit in" movement. That man's protest is nothing other than kneeling quietly and waiting for the game to start. Silence is a powerful thing.


Note:

1. If one feels the need, one can scan for posts in the following threads to find an assortment of direct and indirect examples:
   • Why so little serious debate?
   • You're here...You should consider going there and sharing your ideas where it matters...
   • Policy debate and discussion
   • Policy debate and discussion
   • Have You Heard About the new Ku Ku Klan?
2. Some examples include but are not limited to organizations noted in the following posts:
   -- Policy debate and discussion
   -- You're here...You should consider going there and sharing your ideas where it matters...

Aside:

For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression, one'd think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against Colin Kaepernick.​

Liberals always want to paint their BS in BS. Disrespecting the anthem and the country they paint as a 1st amendment right, or just an opinion. BS, people have the right to get be displeased with millionaires protesting before a damn football game.

I am calling you out right now. What is the protest about and what is the desired end result?

Fuk the NFL,

 

[dudmuck]

Mayor John Lindsay of New York City stated, "We cannot rest content with the charge from Washington that this peaceful protest is unpatriotic...The fact is that this dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

 

[JimBowie1958]

You're gonna go with petitio principii based on the straw of "disrespecting the flag?"

That is like someone asking you if you want to be shot in the left eye or the right eye.

It is not begging the question to say you dont want to be shot anywhere because it is a more important question than the location of the shot.

You want to discuss Colin's patriotism, and I concede he may think himself a true patriot, but I do not think that question is more important or even equal to the question of whether he is showing disrespect to the flag that thousands have bled for, that represents the people of this nation.

Colin is showing disrespect, implicitly, for himself since he is part of this great nation, and he apparently fails to have the humility to realize what a privilege he has had to entertain us for in such an over compensated sport.

I am going to start calling my Congressmen to repeal the monopoly these professional sports leagues have.

There should be competition among multiple lea\gues like any other entertainment industry and not monopolies protected by law.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I love my country and my flag and the Star Spangled Banner always gives me a little chill, but if CK wants to respectfully take a knee to highlight injustices to his people, I see no reason to chastise him for it.

There is nothing respectful about taking a knee when a citizen of this country is normally supposed to salute the flag with their hands over their hearts, but nice try to obfuscate the issue.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I disagree that showing disrespect for our flag and the Republic is a form of patriotism.

There are many ways to protest and showing disrespect for our NATION is not one of them and still be a patriot.

These pampered spoiled morons need to wake up and realize that they are killing their little golden goose.

And frankly, I dont care if Colin is a patriot or not anyway as he is still disrespecting the flag.

I'll tell you what is disrespecting our flag...

- making a tire salesman Sec of the Treasury
- making a woman with no experience, Sec of Education
- making the CEO of Exxon, Sec of State
- making a man who sued the EPA on multiple occasions, Head of the EPA
- making a lobbyist for Turkey, National Security Adviser
- making a reality TV show personality with no diplomatic experience, President of the United States​

That's disrespecting our flag!

No, that is only your opinion, but I understand you libs tend to confuse that with actual law, so it is understandable.

 

[JimBowie1958]

And the first guy to fire should be Tom Brady.

The hottest fires of Hell are for such blasphemies in regard to St Tom, dude.

 

[xotoxi]

Totally different.

How is that different?

How is this different? View attachment 151175

The difference is that Trump has made numerous tweets and speeches about Kaepernick.

Obama made none about Tebow.

The problem with me ONLY lies with the President spending time thinking about it.

 

[jknowgood]

Totally different.

How is that different?

How is this different? View attachment 151175

The difference is that Trump has made numerous tweets and speeches about Kaepernick.

Obama made none about Tebow.

The problem with me ONLY lies with the President spending time thinking about it.

So Obama told over half of the United States that's not who we are, is good with you?

 

[xotoxi]

Totally different.

How is that different?

How is this different? View attachment 151175

The difference is that Trump has made numerous tweets and speeches about Kaepernick.

Obama made none about Tebow.

The problem with me ONLY lies with the President spending time thinking about it.

So Obama told over half of the United States that's not who we are, is good with you?

I don't understand what you just said.