Stand and be counted or sit down and shut up: Reflections on Colin as a patriot

[Desperado]

The biggest issue with this is the fact that Trump is even commenting on the issue. It has nothing to do with the Federal Government or National Security. It has to do with a private business. His opinion does not matter and should not be offered.

So you are saying that Trump does not have a right to express his opinion but the players do?

 

[2aguy]

The biggest issue with this is the fact that Trump is even commenting on the issue. It has nothing to do with the Federal Government or National Security. It has to do with a private business. His opinion does not matter and should not be offered.

He is an American citizen .... he too can speak up against this stupidity....

 

[bripat9643]

My son is at lambeau field tailgating. The place is packed. Guess he is being counted or whatever. Game is sold out big time. All those fans are not patriots...or whatever?

Lambeau field is always sold out. Packer fans are rabid.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The biggest issue with this is the fact that Trump is even commenting on the issue. It has nothing to do with the Federal Government or National Security. It has to do with a private business. His opinion does not matter and should not be offered.

He is an American citizen .... he too can speak up against this stupidity....

"He is an American citizen .... he too can speak up against this stupidity...."


but, just because he can, doesn't mean he should. But we already know he is completely ignorant of this important principle.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Some of us never heard of Colin Kaepernick.

Click here.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The biggest issue with this is the fact that Trump is even commenting on the issue. It has nothing to do with the Federal Government or National Security. It has to do with a private business. His opinion does not matter and should not be offered.

He is an American citizen .... he too can speak up against this stupidity....

"He is an American citizen .... he too can speak up against this stupidity...."


but, just because he can, doesn't mean he should. But we already know he is completely ignorant of this important principle.

but, just because he can, doesn't mean he should.

But enough about Colin.

 

[Coyote]

Thread has been HUGELY (or is it YUGELY) derailed and completely off topic for most of it's length.

It's been semi cleaned. Time to get ON TOPIC please. The topic is not racial crime statistics, liberal and conservative policies, abortion or Trump or Obama.

The topic is whether or not you would consider Colin's actions patriotic or Colin a patriot.

 

[SeaGal]

I think that because I have yet to see one soul on USMB oppose attest to opposing free speech, and insofar as the man is by himself protesting peacefully (hell, even being a QB, he likely exhibits more violence shortly after his protest than he does during the protest) -- expressing himself -- I would not expect anyone here to have a problem with the fact that he's doing so.

Counter protesting is part and parcel of 'free' speech. If he offended some folks by his choice, sobeit...they are as entitled as he to express their opinion in a manner of their own choosing...as you are to protest their protests - and around and around we go ad nauseam.

Supporting the right to peaceably protest does not mean forfeiting the right to disagree.

​

 

[OldLady]

I watched the start of the Patriots-Houston game this afternoon just to see what the players would do in response to the President's pronouncements.
The players that weren't on a knee, including the coaches, stood in a line with locked arms, looking pretty serious about it. There were a lot of players on their knee. I only saw two individual players (both Patriots, I think), who were holding their hand over their heart. The owners did, too.
I believe that might be a backfire? I don't watch football, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but now NO ONE is saluting the flag. Just to flip off the President.

By the way, in answer to the OP's central question, CK doesn't have to be a patriot in order to express himself and I see nothing wrong with his doing that. It is a personal choice that our country allows us the freedom to make. I love my country and my flag and the Star Spangled Banner always gives me a little chill, but if CK wants to respectfully take a knee to highlight injustices to his people, I see no reason to chastise him for it.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I disagree that showing disrespect for our flag and the Republic is a form of patriotism.

There are many ways to protest and showing disrespect for our NATION is not one of them and still be a patriot.

These pampered spoiled morons need to wake up and realize that they are killing their little golden goose.

And frankly, I dont care if Colin is a patriot or not anyway as he is still disrespecting the flag.

I disagree that showing disrespect for our flag and the Republic is a form of patriotism.

Really? You're gonna go with petitio principii based on the straw of "disrespecting the flag?"

 

[Cellblock2429]

Times are changing. People are getting wiser - and it scares NaziCons.

/----/ Libs now say any player who stands for the National Anthem is a Nazi. True patriots take a knee.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Times are changing. People are getting wiser - and it scares NaziCons.

/----/ Libs now say any player who stands for the National Anthem is a Nazi. True patriots take a knee.

"Libs now say any player who stands for the National Anthem is a Nazi. True patriots take a knee."

Said exactly nobody but the little boogeymen you created in your brain.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

The NFL is a "sports entertainment" organization that enjoys significant tax payer subsidies and is allowed to operate as a monopoly.
Colin earned millions and can afford to pay for a media campaign or other activity to express his views.

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics. I would invite Colin to buy ads or use his money to organize other public discourse.

If the NFL doesn't want to stick to entertainment they should be stripped of their taxpayer subsidies and other legal advantages.

.

Or what? Roger Goodell and many of the NFL coaches have come out publicly denouncing Trump. You need to grow up and grow some tolerance. Your mindset is leaning towards a police state and not an open society.

 

[Rustic]

Kapernick is today's Rosa Parks.

Na, he's a really shitty football player and shittier person…
Political correctness is for the spineless

 

[xotoxi]

The biggest issue with this is the fact that Trump is even commenting on the issue. It has nothing to do with the Federal Government or National Security. It has to do with a private business. His opinion does not matter and should not be offered.

He is an American citizen .... he too can speak up against this stupidity....

Does he have nothing more important to do?

 

[usmbguest5318]

There's a difference between "standing and being counted" and actually doing what it takes to improve things. If that is actually your goal.

They are mutually exclusive.

Mutually exclusive? How? What about "standing and being counted" prohibits one from "actually doing what it takes to improve things," and vice versa?

I dare say nothing. One can quite effectively do both. It's a question of how far one is going to take it.

I'm in no place to say that "she" should "stand and be counted" but "he" should take it to the next level and "do what it takes" to implement. Both "he" and "she" can want to see change effected while still having differing levels of contribution to aid in achieving a given end. For example:

1. Be not a voice for change --> Oppose a given ballot measure.
2. Be an anonymous voice for change --> On a forum like this, post favorably for a given ballot measure.
3. Be a public voice for change --> Append one's name to one's expressed approbation of a given ballot measure. (This is "entry level" for being a patriot....This is kinda like "puttin' a ring on it.")
4. Be an agent of change --> "Stump," knock on doors, hand out flyers, lobby your friends, neighbors and family, etc. for a given ballot measure.
5. Lead agents of change --> Organize the people in #4 and be an "official" champion of a given ballot measure.

I watched the start of the Patriots-Houston game this afternoon just to see what the players would do in response to the President's pronouncements.
The players that weren't on a knee, including the coaches, stood in a line with locked arms, looking pretty serious about it. There were a lot of players on their knee. I only saw two individual players (both Patriots, I think), who were holding their hand over their heart. The owners did, too.
I believe that might be a backfire? I don't watch football, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but now NO ONE is saluting the flag. Just to flip off the President.

By the way, in answer to the OP's central question, CK doesn't have to be a patriot in order to express himself and I see nothing wrong with his doing that. It is a personal choice that our country allows us the freedom to make. I love my country and my flag and the Star Spangled Banner always gives me a little chill, but if CK wants to respectfully take a knee to highlight injustices to his people, I see no reason to chastise him for it.

CK doesn't have to be a patriot in order to express himself

True that. But it's hard to be a patriot and not stand up and be counted. Patriotism and silence don't really go well together. Quiescence doesn't make one be not a patriot, but it does mean nobody but oneself will know whether one is a patriot, and there's nothing wrong with that.

What makes one's expression patriotic is that one is using one's voice to advocate for improving something one sees as wrong with one's country, and one's advocating in a public way whereby one jeopardizes something of current or future value to oneself.

I think a patriot will stand up for at least one thing they see that needs "fixing" about their country, although they may not stand up for everything, or even most things, that strike them as needing attention. Openly risking, in the name of bettering one's country, something one holds dear.

Does that mean I'd have to call patriots some people whose views I vehemently oppose? Yes, it does, but not all of them. One's actions and aims have to also be at once noble and humble. Spewing hate and violence, regardless of whether I agree with the cause, in the name of one's country does not make one a patriot. Tim McVeigh was no patriot. Dylan Roof is no patriot. On the other hand, Phyllis Schlafly was a patriot, even though I didn't agree with much she wanted to see happen.

I'm at the borderline of my faith,
I'm at the hinterland of my devotion in the front line of this battle of mine
But I'm still alive...In the wild wild west,
Trying my hardest, Doing my best
To stay alive
-- Sade​

I watched the start of the Patriots-Houston game this afternoon just to see what the players would do in response to the President's pronouncements....now NO ONE is saluting the flag. Just to flip off the President.

That's really sad...Not that people are "flipping off" Trump, but that the "conversation" about this has become about Trump and not about the issue that CK is calling attention to. It's makes so angry that no matter what, Trump cannot let something other than himself be the focus. That man finds a way to make himself the center of attention for every conversation.

Mind, there's plenty that he is rightly the center of attention...he's the head of state, government. That said, this CK and NFL thing should not have a damn thing to do with him and the government. If he wants to share details of the WH football pool, or his fantasy football picks, etc., fine. I would welcome that. It'd be interesting and apropos.

 

[WEATHER53]

He is not a hero as he is "protesting" a non existent situation

 

[Billo_Really]

Alright, I'm back and I am unilaterally accepting my self-declared position of "Thread Boss" to ride shotgun over these racist insurgents and the posts they've chosen to upload. Now I want a show of hands for anyone who did not take a knee during the national anthem for today's football and baseball games? Because you are in a world of shit.

Let the fatwa begin!

 

[Billo_Really]

Na, he's a really shitty football player and shittier person…
Political correctness is for the spineless

He's much better than the Colts and Vikings quarterbacks. That's proof he's being blackballed for his political views.

 

[Billo_Really]

Totally different.

How is that different?