So solar is dying? The numbers

[there4eyeM]

As long as unrealistic and unrenewable preferences are insisted upon, we are doomed to continue down the path to a filthy, degraded world.

 

[jc456]

As long as unrealistic and unrenewable preferences are insisted upon, we are doomed to continue down the path to a filthy, degraded world.

man uses what the earth gives us, and now it's filthy and degraded? I think it's fking genius. I mean, man has survived the nastiness of mother nature by creating technology to beat the odds of dying. And you complain you're not sitting in a cave. wow.

 

[there4eyeM]

Rolling around in bloated steel boxes that spew over half their fuel unburned out their exhaust pipes is not genius. Belching black into the air we breathe in order to produce unneeded excess is not intelligent.
Making efforts to shift to simplicity and beauty is too much for the petrified brains that dominate the landscape.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

One could die laughing at any such assertion about the demise of this thriving, friendly technology.. Solar is only beginning.

Exactly. And the price is still going down. Plus, one can now buy batteries that are set up so that if the grid goes down, you can run your home off the solar panels and the batteries. And the price of those batteries will soon be going down as well.

Batteries are the key. Provides a stable source of power at night and cloudy days.

What do you know ?

 

[there4eyeM]

With the potential for 1300 W per square meter of sunlight, and given that the sun shines 24/7, the will be ways found to more cheaply harvest.
It is already an investment, not an expenditure.

 

[22lcidw]

Rolling around in bloated steel boxes that spew over half their fuel unburned out their exhaust pipes is not genius. Belching black into the air we breathe in order to produce unneeded excess is not intelligent.
Making efforts to shift to simplicity and beauty is too much for the petrified brains that dominate the landscape.

I believe if we went slowly from gasoline to hybrid to electric we would be further along. But we tried to skip the hybrid era for expediency.

 

[there4eyeM]

We should have gone straight to hydrogen. It can be burned in recips quite well, and then has all the electric advantages as well. Let's not get into all the claimed shortcomings here; those are largely propaganda and real problems would have already been overcome.
We will get there.

 

[Andylusion]

There are constant posts how solar is dying or unsuccessful in this country or that nation. So what are the real numbers? Here you go;

Direct subsidies to the oil industry can be broken down into four distinct categories:

There are tax expenditures, in which the federal government allows oil companies to deduct taxes during the oil-well development process. A prime example of this is the $2.3 billion Intangible Drilling Oil & Gas Deduction subsidy that allows producers to deduct 100 percent of expenses that aren’t directly linked to the final operation of an oil well. Another notable example in action is the Last-In, First Our Accounting for Fossil Fuel Companies subsidy that allows oil companies to undervalue their inventory, reducing their amount of taxable income on the books and taking $1.5 billion out of federal coffers each year.

Then there are the direct spending subsidies, such as the $229 million Inland Waters Transport for Petroleum Subsidy. Usually, the federal government taxes shipping company using waterways a fee proportionate to the tonnage of what they ship. Not so with oil companies. Similar to this is the $107 million Inadequate Administrative Fees for Onshore Drilling Management subsidy that leaves taxpayers holding the bag for Bureau of Land Management costs associated with drilling that would otherwise be covered by the industry.

Next up are royalty relief subsidies, where oil companies carve out exemptions for themselves—usually with the help of lawmakers—to pay significantly lower royalties rates on the oil and gas they extract. For example, the Lost Royalties on Offshore Drilling for Leases Issued from 1996 through 2000 subsidy came as a result of the 1995 “Outer Continental Shelf Deep Water Royalty Relief Act,” something that to this day deprives taxpayers of $1.1 billion each year.

What subsidies do oil companies receive?

A prime example of this is the $2.3 billion Intangible Drilling Oil & Gas Deduction subsidy

And this is where you fall into the AOC trap, of calling 'lower taxation' a 'subsidy'. A tax break is not a subsidy.

This is why everyone mocked AOC when Amazon canceled creating jobs in her district, she said she was going to spend the money that would have subsidized Amazon, on schools.

How can you spend money never collected in taxes, on schools? You can't. Because a tax deduction is not a subsidy.

If a tax deduction is a subsidy, then every single person in this country is subsidized. The biggest subsidy in the country, that is "costing" us hundred on hundred of billions of dollars, is the government subsidizing the public.

Again, is this is YOUR logic, not mine.

And here's the opposite side... that same "subsidy" of getting a deduction on productive assets, also applies to Solar Panels. You are allowed to deduct the depreciation of the solar panels, because just like an oil well, they don't last forever. Should we eliminate those "subsidies" as well?

But the bottom line is, between the two of them, only solar power gets a real subsidy. Solar power gets a check from the government. Oil does not. The only time an oil company gets money from me, is when I purchase an oil product from them. Solar gets money from me, when I purchase nothing from them, through the government.

 

[Andylusion]

Rolling around in bloated steel boxes that spew over half their fuel unburned out their exhaust pipes is not genius. Belching black into the air we breathe in order to produce unneeded excess is not intelligent.
Making efforts to shift to simplicity and beauty is too much for the petrified brains that dominate the landscape.

Boy, you are so right. You can go be Amish any time you want, instead of using electricity produced by a coal burning, smoke belching power plant, so that you can type posts complaining how horrible the world is. Instead of polluting the planet, you should go get your Amish buggy and horse.

 

[Dick Foster]

One could die laughing at any such assertion about the demise of this thriving, friendly technology.. Solar is only beginning.

Solar is silly and so is wind and all the other bullshit pushed by the idiots with bullshit liberal arts, BA degrees on the left.
If we'd have quit scewing around with this idiotic nonsense and gotten with thorium fueled fission, we could have solved our so called energy problems a long time ago. The only reason we don't is because big money wants to keep peddling fossil so uses that silly bullshit to distract the technically illiterate on the left. After all the same fools still seem to think the tooth fairy puts the electricity in the wall socket to charge electric cars.

 

[Andylusion]

Rolling around in bloated steel boxes that spew over half their fuel unburned out their exhaust pipes is not genius. Belching black into the air we breathe in order to produce unneeded excess is not intelligent.
Making efforts to shift to simplicity and beauty is too much for the petrified brains that dominate the landscape.

I believe if we went slowly from gasoline to hybrid to electric we would be further along. But we tried to skip the hybrid era for expediency.

Hybrids are not worth it. Unless you are just so rich, you have money to burn, hybrids are a waste of money. If you are fine blowing more money on something you could have gotten at a cheaper price.... then fine. You'll never save as much on gas, as you spend on either the initial purchase, or the repairs.

Electric would be viable... if everyone had a garage, and a place to charge, and could find places to charge away from home.

Fact is... we don't. Not everyone has a garage. Not everyone, never wants to leave the city limits.

 

[Andylusion]

We should have gone straight to hydrogen. It can be burned in recips quite well, and then has all the electric advantages as well. Let's not get into all the claimed shortcomings here; those are largely propaganda and real problems would have already been overcome.
We will get there.

I like how you said "let's not get into the shortcomings"... that's like me saying "we should have gone straight to nuclear powered cars. Let's not get into the short comings".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We should have gone straight to hydrogen. It can be burned in recips quite well, and then has all the electric advantages as well. Let's not get into all the claimed shortcomings here; those are largely propaganda and real problems would have already been overcome.
We will get there.

We should have gone straight to hydrogen.

Why?

It can be burned in recips quite well

And it's light.

 

[westwall]

There are constant posts how solar is dying or unsuccessful in this country or that nation. So what are the real numbers? Here you go;

I don't recall anyone saying it is dying, merely that it is not all that impressive and all of the big ones have to have a gas powered powerplant to meet their required energy production.

 

[Sunsettommy]

You mean like the subsidies that coal, oil, and gas receive? And solar and wind is cheaper than any fossil fuel or nuclear on a non-subsidized basis.

Levelized Cost of Energy and Levelized Cost of Storage 2019

As usual you find a way to present a highly misleading narrative one that is easily smashed by using actual official Subsidy data from the US Government

Meanwhile from this LINK:

Subsidizing The Epocalypse

Selected Excerpt:

"And the final problem with their analysis? It is that you cannot just look at raw subsidy numbers as they are doing. Once again, it’s a “cost/benefit” deal, and once again, they have left out the benefits. Consider: which one is better … spending $100 to subsidize the production of lots of energy, or spending $10 to subsidize a business like Solyndra that crashed and burned?

Obviously, the $100 option is far preferable to the $10 option. Raw subsidy numbers are meaningless.

So here’s a graph of those same EIA direct and indirect subsidies discussed above, but this time expressed per barrel of oil equivalent energy produced.

As you can see, per the amount of energy produced, we’re spending a hundred times more subsidizing renewables than we spend subsidizing natural gas and oil."

=============================================
The Lazard report was dishonestly written, hoping morons like you wet you pants over the statistical chicanery they produced.

 

[JLW]

You mean like the subsidies that coal, oil, and gas receive? And solar and wind is cheaper than any fossil fuel or nuclear on a non-subsidized basis.

Levelized Cost of Energy and Levelized Cost of Storage 2019

You are absolutely correct.

"The United States provides a number of tax subsidies to the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry. Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually."

Fact Sheet: Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs | White Papers | EESI

Trouble is you have these shills for the fossil fuel industry who want to keep us on this 19th century fuel source. I take them as seriously I would have someone saying steam will never replace horses or crude oil will never replace whale oil. Now a new transition is upon us and the usual suspects make their appearance. You know the naysayers. The world will move beyond them while they sit screaming bloody murder. Renewables will replace fossil fuels. It can not come soon enough.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Batteries are the key. Provides a stable source of power at night and cloudy days.

Or just use fossil fuels...this is the second time in my life I am going through the "solar power" craze...last time [70's] we were preparing for the new ice age and all the genius' loaded up their roofs with solar panels that can still be seen on some roofs today...anyway, have fun with it til the next fad comes down the pike.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You mean like the subsidies that coal, oil, and gas receive? And solar and wind is cheaper than any fossil fuel or nuclear on a non-subsidized basis.

Levelized Cost of Energy and Levelized Cost of Storage 2019

You are absolutely correct.

"The United States provides a number of tax subsidies to the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry. Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually."

Fact Sheet: Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs | White Papers | EESI

Trouble is you have these shills for the fossil fuel industry who want to keep us on this 19th century fule source. I take them as seriously I would have someone saying steam will never replace horses or fossil fuels will never replace whale oil. The world will move beyond them while they sit screaming bloody murder. Renewables will replace fossil fuels. It can not come soon enough.

Trouble is you have these shills for the fossil fuel industry who want to keep us on this 19th century fule source.

Exactly!!

We need to be more like Venezuela.

They use less oil every year.

Thanks for the link.

Direct Subsidies

Intangible Drilling Costs Deduction (26 U.S. Code § 263. Active). This provision allows companies to deduct a majority of the costs incurred from drilling new wells domestically. In its analysis of President Trump’s Fiscal Year 2017 Budget Proposal, the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimated that eliminating tax breaks for intangible drilling costs would generate $1.59 billion in revenue in 2017, or $13 billion in the next ten years.

Ummmmm…..you know all businesses get to deduct their expenses. Drilling costs are a business expense.
Deducting a business expense isn't a subsidy.

Percentage Depletion (26 U.S. Code § 613. Active). Depletion is an accounting method that works much like depreciation,

Ummmmm…..you know all businesses get to deduct their depreciation. Depreciation is a business expense.
Deducting a business expense isn't a subsidy.
​

Indirect Subsidies

Last In, First Out Accounting (26 U.S. Code § 472. Active). The Last In, First Out accounting method (LIFO) allows oil and gas companies to sell the fuel most recently added to their reserves first, as opposed to selling older reserves first under the traditional First In, First Out (FIFO) method. This allows the most expensive reserves to be sold first, reducing the value of their inventory for taxation purposes.

Ummmmm…..you know all businesses can use Last In, First Out accounting method (LIFO) . It isn't a subsidy.

Foreign Tax Credit (26 U.S. Code § 901. Active). Typically, when firms operating in foreign countries pay royalties abroad they can deduct these expenses from their taxable income. Instead of claiming royalty payments as deductions, oil and gas companies are able to treat them as fully deductible foreign income tax. In 2016, the JCT estimated that closing this loophole for all American businesses operating in countries that do not tax corporate income would generate $12.7 billion in tax revenue over the course of the following decade.

Ummmmm…..you know all businesses can deduct their foreign taxes. It isn't a subsidy.

 

[JLW]

Health externalities of burning fossil fuels.


"Burning fossil fuels creates air pollutants such as particulate matter, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, ozone, and mercury. These pollutants lead to health impacts including asthma, lung disease, bronchitis, and other chronic respiratory diseases that may lead to premature death. Air pollutants from fossil fuels also contribute to the development of lung and other cancers; lung cancer accounts for 30 percent of cancer-related deaths each year. Air pollutants, such as those released from vehicles and power plants that rely on the combustion of fossil fuels, cause 200,000 premature deaths each year.

Taking into account the coal power sector alone, it is estimated that fine particulate matter from U.S. coal plants resulted in 13,200 deaths, 9,700 hospitalizations, and 20,000 heart attacks in 2010. Coal-fired power plants are also the largest source of airborne mercury emissions in the United States. Mercury can move through the food chain and accumulate in the flesh of fish, posing the greatest risk to pregnant women."

Fact Sheet: Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs | White Papers | EESI

Just another reason to leave fossil fuels behind.

 

[Andylusion]

Health externalities of burning fossil fuels.


"Burning fossil fuels creates air pollutants such as particulate matter, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, ozone, and mercury. These pollutants lead to health impacts including asthma, lung disease, bronchitis, and other chronic respiratory diseases that may lead to premature death. Air pollutants from fossil fuels also contribute to the development of lung and other cancers; lung cancer accounts for 30 percent of cancer-related deaths each year. Air pollutants, such as those released from vehicles and power plants that rely on the combustion of fossil fuels, cause 200,000 premature deaths each year.

Taking into account the coal power sector alone, it is estimated that fine particulate matter from U.S. coal plants resulted in 13,200 deaths, 9,700 hospitalizations, and 20,000 heart attacks in 2010. Coal-fired power plants are also the largest source of airborne mercury emissions in the United States. Mercury can move through the food chain and accumulate in the flesh of fish, posing the greatest risk to pregnant women."

Fact Sheet: Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs | White Papers | EESI

Just another reason to leave fossil fuels behind.

Not going to happen. Period. Arguing it, just makes you ridiculous. All these made up estimated numbers, mean nothing.