Seems To Me That US Catholic Bishops -

[Billy_Kinetta]

- have 'way more to worry about than trying to undermine the US Constitution. Are they trying to distract, you think?

US Catholic Bishops Endorse Gun Control Manifesto - Big League Politics

 

[Blackrook]

The bishops are a bad lot, but the Pope is worse.

 

[Meriweather]

Are they trying to distract, you think?

Bishops should settle for presenting and expanding expertise on Biblical and spiritual matters. Parishioners are quite capable of making decisions about guns, diet, and books on their own.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
bishops are all for control, anything and everything ... what other reason is there for them to even exist.

 

[Blackrook]

The bishops' job is mostly administration, and like mid-level management in any organization, the wrong people are promoted: the suck-ups, the politically correct, the weak-willed, the ninnys. Priests that take a strong stand for Catholicism very rarely get promoted to bishop.

 

[ding]

Are they trying to distract, you think?

Bishops should settle for presenting and expanding expertise on Biblical and spiritual matters. Parishioners are quite capable of making decisions about guns, diet, and books on their own.

We can’t have it both ways. We can’t argue it is good and just for them to speak out against abortion and then argue they should limit their statements to biblical and spiritual matters when they speak out against something we support.

I am happy to have these discussions.

 

[Meriweather]

We can’t have it both ways. We can’t argue it is good and just for them to speak out against abortion and then argue they should limit their statements to biblical and spiritual matters when they speak out against something we support.

I see your point, and it is a good one. Here is why I disagree on the issue of guns. The Commandment is, "Do not murder". Abortion is murder. Owning a gun is not. Gun ownership has become a political issue, and it is not a Church issue. Absolutely, each individual Cardinal, bishop, priest, deacon, and Catholic should freely speak out about their own personal opinions and ownership of guns. The Church as a whole should not be taking a stand on gun ownership. My opinion.

I have never touched a gun, let alone owned one and have no wish to. I have no wish to hunt, no wish to violently defend myself--and those are personal choices. However, you can just bet should anyone threaten my family, I would grab the nearest knife.

Again, the Commandment is, "Thou shalt not murder" not Thou shalt not own guns. For me, that is the difference between abortion and gun ownership.

 

[ding]

We can’t have it both ways. We can’t argue it is good and just for them to speak out against abortion and then argue they should limit their statements to biblical and spiritual matters when they speak out against something we support.

I see your point, and it is a good one. Here is why I disagree on the issue of guns. The Commandment is, "Do not murder". Abortion is murder. Owning a gun is not. Gun ownership has become a political issue, and it is not a Church issue. Absolutely, each individual Cardinal, bishop, priest, deacon, and Catholic should freely speak out about their own personal opinions and ownership of guns. The Church as a whole should not be taking a stand on gun ownership. My opinion.

I have never touched a gun, let alone owned one and have no wish to. I have no wish to hunt, no wish to violently defend myself--and those are personal choices. However, you can just bet should anyone threaten my family, I would grab the nearest knife.

Again, the Commandment is, "Thou shalt not murder" not Thou shalt not own guns. For me, that is the difference between abortion and gun ownership.

Whether there are differences is irrelevant. These are social issues. They either can or they can’t comment on social issues.

We don’t get to pick and choose which social issues the church comments on. We just get to disagree or agree with them.

On this issue I disagree with them because I believe it is more moral to allow the right of self defense even if others abuse it.

 

[Meriweather]

Whether there are differences is irrelevant. These are social issues. They either can or they can’t comment on social issues.

Again, of course they can. But as individuals, not as Church--not when the issue is purely political.

 

[ding]

Whether there are differences is irrelevant. These are social issues. They either can or they can’t comment on social issues.

Again, of course they can. But as individuals, not as Church--not when the issue is purely political.

They don’t see it as political. They see it as societal. They aren’t backing a party or a candidate. They are backing an ideal.

 

[Meriweather]

They don’t see it as political. They see it as societal. They aren’t backing a party or a candidate. They are backing an ideal.

The ideal is that every single person who owns any type of weapon (including fists) does not use them to harm another human being.

 

[ding]

They don’t see it as political. They see it as societal. They aren’t backing a party or a candidate. They are backing an ideal.

The ideal is that every single person who owns any type of weapon (including fists) does not use them to harm another human being.

I don’t disagree. I’m not arguing that.

I am arguing you can’t pick and choose which social issues the church decides to endorse or oppose.

You can’t arbitrarily decide this one is political and that one isn’t. They are all societal which then makes them political.

 

[Meriweather]

You can’t arbitrarily decide this one is political and that one isn’t. They are all societal which then makes them political.

Actually, we can. Murder (abortion) is against Church teaching. Owning guns is not. Once again, I wish to emphasize that I am fine with each individual Catholic (even from the pulpit) voicing their own opinion. Unless every single bishop is America is in favor of limiting the types of guns people own, a single organization that happens to have a majority with this opinion should not be giving the impression they are speaking for the Church of that this is in any way Church doctrine or dogma.

Further, I think the Church's role in today's environment is to do more to reach young men and to lead them in a direction that is more fulfilling first to these men and second to society. In other words, Jesus would not attend a political rally on gun ownership, he would try to reach out to--and heal these young men should they ask.

Again, my opinion. I am much in favor of individuals speaking out, but I believe it needs to stay with individual opinion, not an organization's opinion. Things like abortion and divorce were Church issues long before US politics usurped them. And that's the difference between those issues and the current one.

 

[ding]

You can’t arbitrarily decide this one is political and that one isn’t. They are all societal which then makes them political.

Actually, we can. Murder (abortion) is against Church teaching. Owning guns is not. Once again, I wish to emphasize that I am fine with each individual Catholic (even from the pulpit) voicing their own opinion. Unless every single bishop is America is in favor of limiting the types of guns people own, a single organization that happens to have a majority with this opinion should not be giving the impression they are speaking for the Church of that this is in any way Church doctrine or dogma.

Further, I think the Church's role in today's environment is to do more to reach young men and to lead them in a direction that is more fulfilling first to these men and second to society. In other words, Jesus would not attend a political rally on gun ownership, he would try to reach out to--and heal these young men should they ask.

Again, my opinion. I am much in favor of individuals speaking out, but I believe it needs to stay with individual opinion, not an organization's opinion. Things like abortion and divorce were Church issues long before US politics usurped them. And that's the difference between those issues and the current one.

Catholics are called to participate in the political process, be informed voters, and to encourage elected officials to act on behalf of the common good. There are limits to official Catholic Church political activity. The Church engages in issue-related activity, not partisan political candidate activities. This restriction does not apply to individuals or group provided they do not represent themselves as acting in an official Church capacity.[5]

Every two years the USCCB produces "Faithful Citizenship" guides, to provide guidelines and explanations of Catholic teaching to Catholic voters.[6]

Catholic Church and politics - Wikipedia

 

[Polishprince]

- have 'way more to worry about than trying to undermine the US Constitution. Are they trying to distract, you think?

US Catholic Bishops Endorse Gun Control Manifesto - Big League Politics

I think a lot of these bishops are thinking about self-preservation here. A lot of the priests in their lines of command may be engaged in giving it to altar boys in the caboose and they know a lot of those kids' fathers aren't going to put up with that shit. Taking the guns away from the hoi polloi at least eliminates that kind of bad end for those engaged in paedophilia.

 

[Blackrook]

The official Catholic teaching is that self-defense is justified.

 

[zaangalewa]

- have 'way more to worry about than trying to undermine the US Constitution. Are they trying to distract, you think?

US Catholic Bishops Endorse Gun Control Manifesto - Big League Politics

It's not 1791 - it's 2019. The USA needs meanwile a war weapon control law against mass-murdering war weapons of the own population. 78% of all US-Americans have no weapon at all - or with other wordes: nearly no one needs weapons! It's by the way the duty of the USA to protect all this people. And 7.7 million US-Americans have between 8 and 140 weapons. That's not only crazy - that's mad. Perhaps it's the best to make a roof over the psychiatric hospital USA.

 

[zaangalewa]

The official Catholic teaching is that self-defense is justified.

In Germany the complete police - hundreds of thousands of policemen - fire less than 100 shots in average every year (including warn shots) and kill normally less than 10 people. And normally no policeman is killed with fire arms too. That's the situation of "self-defense" here.

So I would suggest: Don't use wrong excuses for this weapon disaster of the USA and the hate which nears hate and destroys common activities in the USA. It suffer lots of people in your country - specially also children in schools - because everywhere in the USA can be weaponed mass-murdering idiots and kill people. Even under best conditions the police in the USA is not able any longer to protect the own population when someone starts to fire. This can cause not "only" one or some few victims in case of an attack - this is able to cause dozends and even hundreds and more victims within an extremly short time. So "self-defense" cries for much better weapon control laws and a strict realisation of such laws in the USA. That's better for the population, that's better for the police, that's better for every common activity of the citizens of the USA.

And by the way: Let it be to attack continously Pope Francis. And do not forget to protect the child.

 

[ding]

- have 'way more to worry about than trying to undermine the US Constitution. Are they trying to distract, you think?

US Catholic Bishops Endorse Gun Control Manifesto - Big League Politics

It's not 1791 - it's 2019. The USA needs meanwile a war weapon control law against mass-murdering war weapons of the own population. 78% of all US-Americans have no weapon at all - or with other wordes: nearly no one needs weapons! It's by the way the duty of the USA to protect all this people. And 7.7 million US-Americans have between 8 and 140 weapons. That's not only crazy - that's mad. Perhaps it's the best to make a roof over the psychiatric hospital USA.

Why?

It’s statistically insignificant.

 

[zaangalewa]

- have 'way more to worry about than trying to undermine the US Constitution. Are they trying to distract, you think?

US Catholic Bishops Endorse Gun Control Manifesto - Big League Politics

It's not 1791 - it's 2019. The USA needs meanwile a war weapon control law against mass-murdering war weapons of the own population. 78% of all US-Americans have no weapon at all - or with other wordes: nearly no one needs weapons! It's by the way the duty of the USA to protect all this people. And 7.7 million US-Americans have between 8 and 140 weapons. That's not only crazy - that's mad. Perhaps it's the best to make a roof over the psychiatric hospital USA.

Why?

It’s statistically insignificant.

What do you ask? What means "Why?" What means "statistically insignificant"? Do you postulate weapon fetishists (= psychopaths) have to rule the world?