Zone1 Russian EMP capabilities......why aren't we taking this seriously?

[beagle9]

Best way to peace is shutting down vermin before they have a chance to grow and generate much bigger wars. As I've said this one would have been over in a month if Biden had acted promptly.

Biden ? Yeah if he had the mental capacity to think, but that's been proven to be a complete disaster for those who voted him in. Then again I guess that depends on one's mentality that voted him in... ROTFLMBO

 

[2aguy]

I'm not sure what you think EMP is, but it is nothing more than a large burst of electromagnetic radiation caused by acceleration of charged particles. That burst will be over a huge frequency range across most of the EM range from VLF to near visible light, UV.

Lasers on the other hand, are tunable only to frequencies of visible and non-visible light, 180nm to 1mm.

Also, EMP, because it contains low, middle, and high frequency waves will propagate over terrain, just like normal radio waves, where laser light must be reflected or refracted around obstacles.

Both laser and EMP are electromagnetic waves (particles) so they are both subject to the same inverse square law and will both lose their energy to the square of the distance. Laser, being focused, requires less energy to propagate further, but has a much smaller and directional swath of destruction ... like a bullet vs a bomb.

So...as a threat against the U.S. power grid.....even regional...what do you think?

 

[Captain Caveman]

American combat kills were as high or higher than the Soviets, not to mention the Soviets had been crushed and only rescued by timely shipments of aid from Britain and kept in the war by the U.S., so yes we won, and the Soviets were jut the hired help is all.

They would still be holed up in Moscow today eating rats and each other if the Allied air power hadn't forces Hitler to withdraw most of the Luftwaffe and most of the anti-aircraft guns back to Germany to fight the bombing campaigns. Russia couldn't wipe its own ass then and it can't now.

You're very delusional.

The colonies were on the verge of defeat, the French came to the colonies rescue. American independence was won by the French.

Don't tell me, America supplied money and arms to the Ukraine, so if Ukraine win, you won it for them. Can you see how stupid you are.

 

[beagle9]

You're very delusional.

The colonies were on the verge of defeat, the French came to the colonies rescue. American independence was won by the French.

Don't tell me, America supplied money and arms to the Ukraine, so if Ukraine win, you won it for them. Can you see how stupid you are.

Without that money and arm's yes Ukraine loses. See how that works..

 

[DudleySmith]

Biden ? Yeah if he had the mental capacity to think, but that's been proven to be a complete disaster for those who voted him in. Then again I guess that depends on one's mentality that voted him in... ROTFLMBO

Yes, well the GOP certainly deserves a lot of the blame as well. Don't forget to leave those assclowns out of the results.

 

[fncceo]

So...as a threat against the U.S. power grid.....even regional...what do you think?

EMP isn't so much a threat to the power grid (transmission lines, substations, etc). The threat that EMP involves is damage to the semiconductors and any other electronics vulnerable to the short circuit created by a massive EMP pulse. An EMP burst has the same effect on electronics as a lightning strike.

Literally everything from your toaster to your TV, from your computer to your car is unusable without the processors and other semiconductors that control them.

However, that threat, even from a very large nuclear explosion is limited in range to 2 to 5 miles from the point of detonation.

 

[beagle9]

Yes, well the GOP certainly deserves a lot of the blame as well. Don't forget to leave those assclowns out of the results.

Leave them out of what results ?..... Why do you call republican's a-ss clown's ??

 

[beagle9]

EMP isn't so much a threat to the power grid (transmission lines, substations, etc). The threat that EMP involves is damage to the semiconductors and any other electronics vulnerable to the short circuit created by a massive EMP pulse. An EMP burst has the same effect on electronics as a lightning strike.

Literally everything from your toaster to you TV, from your computer to your car is unusable without the processors and other semiconductors that control them.

However, that threat, even from a very large nuclear explosion is limited in range to 2 to 5 miles from the point of detonation.

Yes, so there would have to be many back to back EMP detonations from incoming nukes, otherwise that would be spread out over large areas or strategic areas in order to devastate an area in our country large enough (with the intent to destroy the capabilities of a quick response from our own Nuclear capabilities), before that quick response occurs.

This is my thinking on your analysis of the zone being 2 to 5 miles all depending.

The EMP attack would be a failure overall it seems, otherwise if your analysis is correct. Thanks.

 

[fncceo]

Yes, so there would have to be many back to back EMP detonations from incoming nukes, otherwise that would be spread out over large areas or strategic areas in order to devastate an area in our country large enough (with the intent to destroy the capabilities of a quick response from our own Nuclear capabilities), before that quick response occurs.

This is my thinking on your analysis of the zone being 2 to 5 miles all depending.

The EMP attack would be a failure overall it seems, otherwise if your analysis is correct. Thanks.

If the purpose of an EMP attack were to take out command and control to prevent retaliation, it would be doomed to failure. Strategic sites in the US (and other countries where US forces has significant military assets) are shielded from EMP by Faraday cages and grounding. Nuclear missile silos, nuclear submarines are protected from EMP by virtue of being shielded by earth and water, and bombers, protected to a lesser degree, would have to be within a few miles of a nuclear blast to lose their important systems.

If the purpose was to destroy our economy by the destruction of infrastructure, the residual effects from hundred of nuclear blasts would be so bad, I'm pretty sure no one's first concern would be that their iPhone no longer works.

 

[2aguy]

If the purpose of an EMP attack were to take out command and control to prevent retaliation, it would be doomed to failure. Strategic sites in the US (and other countries where US forces has significant military assets) are shielded from EMP by Faraday cages and grounding. Nuclear missile silos, nuclear submarines are protected from EMP by virtue of being shielded by earth and water, and bombers, protected to a lesser degree, would have to be within a few miles of a nuclear blast to lose their important systems.

If the purpose was to destroy our economy by the destruction of infrastructure, the residual effects from hundred of nuclear blasts would be so bad, I'm pretty sure no one's first concern would be that their iPhone no longer works.

So what about what Pry has to say on this?

 

[Vastator]

So what about what Pry has to say on this?

Peter Vincent Pry..?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Without that money and arm's yes Ukraine loses. See how that works..

Thank you for agreeing that you're stupid.

Well done America, you've won another war

 

[Jessica-stormlover]

Russia's military infrastructure is 40+ years old. I seriously doubt they are capable of pulling such off. This is what happens when you don't invest into science, tech and education but let your elites too take it all. You no longer lead in anything and you become a very weak country. That is russia.

 

[easyt65]

I just heard about this from a relative who was watching a podcast called "Valuetainment." The host interviewed the author of this paper............why aren't we taking this seriously, and do you think that the current administration would be willing to launch nuclear weapons in retaliation for an HEMP strike?

HEMP—The Ultimate Cyberweapon
Any nuclear weapon detonated in outer space, 30 kilometers or higher, will generate a high-altitude electromagnetic pulse (HEMP). No blast, thermal, fallout or effects other than HEMP are experienced in the atmosphere and on the ground. A nuclear detonation at 30 kilometers altitude will generate a HEMP field with a radius on the ground of 600 kilometers, damaging all kinds of electronics, blacking-out electric grids and collapsing other life-sustaining critical infrastructures.

Detonated at 400 kilometers altitude, the radius of the HEMP field will be about 2,200 kilometers, large enough to cover most of North America.11


Russia has what they term “Super-EMP” weapons, nuclear warheads specialized for HEMP attack. Super-EMP warheads have very low explosive yield (10 kilotons or less) but very high gamma yield, which is what generates HEMP. According to Russian military and technical sources, Super-EMP weapons can generate HEMP fields of 100,000 volts/meter or higher, greatly exceeding the U.S. military hardening standard for HEMP (50,000 volts/meter).12
Russian military doctrine, because HEMP attacks electronics, categorizes nuclear HEMP attack as a dimension of Information Warfare, Electronic Warfare and Cyber Warfare, which are modes of warfare operating within the electromagnetic spectrum.13

------------

Russian and Chinese military doctrine also advocates a revolutionary new way of warfare rendering obsolete traditional military power by relying on cyber-attacks, sabotage, and EMP to
collapse adversary electric grids and life-sustaining critical infrastructures, thereby achieving victory.53
Russian cyber-attacks against U.S. and allied electric grids are the “edge of the wedge” for this new way of warfare that could culminate in unleashing of a VOSTOK-18 for real—or make VOSTOK-18 unnecessary for global conquest.
As noted earlier, in July 2018, two months before VOSTOK-18, the Department of Homeland Security revealed Russian cyber-weapons Dragonfly and Energetic Bear penetrated hundreds of U.S. electric utilities and could cause a nationwide blackout.54
---------

Non-Nuclear EMP Weapons (NNEMP)


Russia probably remains the world’s leader in Non-Nuclear EMP (NNEMP) weapons, more commonly called Radio-Frequency Weapons (RFWs), which have been the focus of “intense effort aimed at the development of high-power microwave and millimeter-wave sources for radio frequency weapons” since the Cold War, to the continuing alarm of the Department of Defense.62
Russia apparently has developed and deployed NNEMP weapons significantly more powerful and with longer range than any other nation. Russian military and technical sources often describe their NNEMP weapons as having ranges of 10-20 kilometers or more, while Western NNEMP weapons rarely have a range exceeding 1 kilometer in radius.63
For example, according to a Sputnik article “Russia’s Electromagnetic Weapons Could Be ‘More Efficient Than Nuclear Weapons’”:
--“Russia is developing radio-electronic weapons, which use powerful UHF impulse capable of destroying all electronic equipment miles away and even changing the course of a war.”
--“The unique radio-electronic weapons based on new physical principles, which were successfully tested in Russia last fall, use mobile electromagnetic emitters to disable missile warheads and onboard aircraft electronics miles away.”
-----------

Relatively small numbers of NNEMP cruise missiles or drones—perhaps only one capable of protracted flight—could inflict a long nationwide blackout. Reportedly, according to a classified study by the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, disabling just 9 of 2,000 U.S. EHV transformer substations could cause cascading failures that would crash the North American power grid.67

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1124730.pdf

Imagine an attack on the first day of winter here in the U.S.......cold, starvation, lack of water would destroy us....right?

Why aren't 'WE' taking this seriously?

Biden has facilitated over 5 MILLION illegals (we know of) to enter the US, to include terrorists on our watch list. Just recently Iranian terrorists on the watch list were captured at the border...and those are just the ones we caught.

Biden has made the US ripe for another terrorist attack by his UnConstitutional / illegal, national security-threatening Open Border treason.

 

[candycorn]

I just heard about this from a relative who was watching a podcast called "Valuetainment." The host interviewed the author of this paper............why aren't we taking this seriously, and do you think that the current administration would be willing to launch nuclear weapons in retaliation for an HEMP strike?

HEMP—The Ultimate Cyberweapon
Any nuclear weapon detonated in outer space, 30 kilometers or higher, will generate a high-altitude electromagnetic pulse (HEMP). No blast, thermal, fallout or effects other than HEMP are experienced in the atmosphere and on the ground. A nuclear detonation at 30 kilometers altitude will generate a HEMP field with a radius on the ground of 600 kilometers, damaging all kinds of electronics, blacking-out electric grids and collapsing other life-sustaining critical infrastructures.

Detonated at 400 kilometers altitude, the radius of the HEMP field will be about 2,200 kilometers, large enough to cover most of North America.11


Russia has what they term “Super-EMP” weapons, nuclear warheads specialized for HEMP attack. Super-EMP warheads have very low explosive yield (10 kilotons or less) but very high gamma yield, which is what generates HEMP. According to Russian military and technical sources, Super-EMP weapons can generate HEMP fields of 100,000 volts/meter or higher, greatly exceeding the U.S. military hardening standard for HEMP (50,000 volts/meter).12
Russian military doctrine, because HEMP attacks electronics, categorizes nuclear HEMP attack as a dimension of Information Warfare, Electronic Warfare and Cyber Warfare, which are modes of warfare operating within the electromagnetic spectrum.13

------------

Russian and Chinese military doctrine also advocates a revolutionary new way of warfare rendering obsolete traditional military power by relying on cyber-attacks, sabotage, and EMP to
collapse adversary electric grids and life-sustaining critical infrastructures, thereby achieving victory.53
Russian cyber-attacks against U.S. and allied electric grids are the “edge of the wedge” for this new way of warfare that could culminate in unleashing of a VOSTOK-18 for real—or make VOSTOK-18 unnecessary for global conquest.
As noted earlier, in July 2018, two months before VOSTOK-18, the Department of Homeland Security revealed Russian cyber-weapons Dragonfly and Energetic Bear penetrated hundreds of U.S. electric utilities and could cause a nationwide blackout.54
---------

Non-Nuclear EMP Weapons (NNEMP)


Russia probably remains the world’s leader in Non-Nuclear EMP (NNEMP) weapons, more commonly called Radio-Frequency Weapons (RFWs), which have been the focus of “intense effort aimed at the development of high-power microwave and millimeter-wave sources for radio frequency weapons” since the Cold War, to the continuing alarm of the Department of Defense.62
Russia apparently has developed and deployed NNEMP weapons significantly more powerful and with longer range than any other nation. Russian military and technical sources often describe their NNEMP weapons as having ranges of 10-20 kilometers or more, while Western NNEMP weapons rarely have a range exceeding 1 kilometer in radius.63
For example, according to a Sputnik article “Russia’s Electromagnetic Weapons Could Be ‘More Efficient Than Nuclear Weapons’”:
--“Russia is developing radio-electronic weapons, which use powerful UHF impulse capable of destroying all electronic equipment miles away and even changing the course of a war.”
--“The unique radio-electronic weapons based on new physical principles, which were successfully tested in Russia last fall, use mobile electromagnetic emitters to disable missile warheads and onboard aircraft electronics miles away.”
-----------

Relatively small numbers of NNEMP cruise missiles or drones—perhaps only one capable of protracted flight—could inflict a long nationwide blackout. Reportedly, according to a classified study by the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, disabling just 9 of 2,000 U.S. EHV transformer substations could cause cascading failures that would crash the North American power grid.67

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1124730.pdf

Imagine an attack on the first day of winter here in the U.S.......cold, starvation, lack of water would destroy us....right?

Earlier you guys said that we have found a way to stop such an attack.

 

[SweetSue92]

Right on cue.

Only a nuclear war or something similar is big enough to cover their Covid mess, including the Wuhan lab and the rolling disaster that is the vaccines.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Putin is aware of where the true Red Lines are. The type of lines that if crossed would place his life at risk. Now, he can be.unpredictable and it's important that Intel agencies do their have jobs, but such a worry should have been addressed long ago once the technology became available. You plan for the worst, not operate unprepared.

 

[Doug1943]

(1) No one knows the future.

(2) Leaders, like the rest of us, do not always act/react rationally. Why did Hitler declare war on the US? .

(3) Little things - back-and-forth -- can lead to big things that no one wanted. This is how WWI started.

(4) The US has been the pre-eminent world power for the last 75 years. This is changing. China is on the way up, we are on the way down. And we are rotting from the inside. This reality means that there is a very good chance of war between the two sides.

(5) There are other tensions in the world, not directly involving the US, between nuclear-armed powers, or powers allied to nuclear-armed powers.
--- Israel (and the Sunni Arab states) vs Iran.
--- Japan and China
--- Armenia and Azerbaijan
--- Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo [another blessing of diversity]
--- India and China
--- India and Pakistan

And of course Ukraine, where we have finally succeeded, after 30 years, into goading the Bear to lash out.

(6) We all are subject to 'normalcy bias'. We discount the probability of unpleasant events in the future, and engage in linear projection from the present: today was like yesterday which was like the day before yesterday which was.... therefore ...
[ Normalcy bias - Wikipedia ]

Therefore ... it is simple common-sense prudence to believe that the US should prepare for a big war -- not necessarily directly against the US, at least not at first.

With what weapons this war might be fought -- nuclear, biological, EMPs, and who knows what else they've been cooking up -- is not predictable.

Radioactive fallout can come down far from a conflict zone. Biological warfare vectors can spread beyond their intended target.

This means that the US should initiate a nation-wide 'Civil Defense Preparedness' campaign.

We could learn from the Chinese, Swiss and Israelis about making our buildings into safe(r) havens, and in other things too.

State and local government should have plans for dealing with a range of serious emergencies.

And individuals should prepare as well. For example, if you have children/grandchildren, you should get a couple of bottles of potassium iodide, which protects thyroid glands from the cancer-causing effects of radioactive Iodine-131.

There are a number of other things individuals should do as well, but they deserve a separate thread.

(This really should not be a Left vs Right issue, although I suppose extreme partisans on either side would want to dissuade their political opponents from taking any precautions. A massive government-directed Civil Defense Preparedness campaign would, of course, encourge 'preppers', who are mainly rightwingers. On the other hand, it would involve a lot of government spending. So we're quits.)

 

[Vastator]

(1) No one knows the future.

(2) Leaders, like the rest of us, do not always act/react rationally. Why did Hitler declare war on the US? .

(3) Little things - back-and-forth -- can lead to big things that no one wanted. This is how WWI started.

(4) The US has been the pre-eminent world power for the last 75 years. This is changing. China is on the way up, we are on the way down. And we are rotting from the inside. This reality means that there is a very good chance of war between the two sides.

(5) There are other tensions in the world, not directly involving the US, between nuclear-armed powers, or powers allied to nuclear-armed powers.
--- Israel (and the Sunni Arab states) vs Iran.
--- Japan and China
--- Armenia and Azerbaijan
--- Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo [another blessing of diversity]
--- India and China
--- India and Pakistan

And of course Ukraine, where we have finally succeeded, after 30 years, into goading the Bear to lash out.

(6) We all are subject to 'normalcy bias'. We discount the probability of unpleasant events in the future, and engage in linear projection from the present: today was like yesterday which was like the day before yesterday which was.... therefore ...
[ Normalcy bias - Wikipedia ]

Therefore ... it is simple common-sense prudence to believe that the US should prepare for a big war -- not necessarily directly against the US, at least not at first.

With what weapons this war might be fought -- nuclear, biological, EMPs, and who knows what else they've been cooking up -- is not predictable.

Radioactive fallout can come down far from a conflict zone. Biological warfare vectors can spread beyond their intended target.

This means that the US should initiate a nation-wide 'Civil Defense Preparedness' campaign.

We could learn from the Chinese, Swiss and Israelis about making our buildings into safe(r) havens, and in other things too.

State and local government should have plans for dealing with a range of serious emergencies.

And individuals should prepare as well. For example, if you have children/grandchildren, you should get a couple of bottles of potassium iodide, which protects thyroid glands from the cancer-causing effects of radioactive Iodine-131.

There are a number of other things individuals should do as well, but they deserve a separate thread.

(This really should not be a Left vs Right issue, although I suppose extreme partisans on either side would want to dissuade their political opponents from taking any precautions. A massive government-directed Civil Defense Preparedness campaign would, of course, encourge 'preppers', who are mainly rightwingers. On the other hand, it would involve a lot of government spending. So we're quits.)

Leave them to sleep… We’re better off without them.

 

[Doug1943]

Leave them to sleep… We’re better off without them.

Well, they're not asleep. They're very active. And, we
must have leaders. But we need the right ones.