Questions For Veterans

[Mushroom]

Actually, yes. if the law is properly written. The law must be very specific. "AR-15/AK47 and it's various clones and copies". Not "All Assault Rifles".

Do you want to know the funniest thing about what you just posted?

Here, take a look at this:

Guess what? It's the exact same freaking rifle!

That's right, both of those are Ruger "Mini-14" rifles, It is like lowering the suspension, adding a glass pack, and putting a scoop on the hood of a Toyota Corolla. Sure it looks different, but it's still a Corolla. No matter how many fancy cosmetic accessories you add to change the looks, it is never going to beat a Corvette off the line without changing the insides also. And no matter that it now "looks like a sports car", the state is not going to raise your registration fees, and your insurance is not going to raise their rates. Because it is not a sports car, it is just a Corolla.

This is the stupidity, that you do not seem to get that at all. Literally judging everything purely upon looks. You simply look, make a snap judgement in your mind, and that is all that matters. Yes, it literally is the same gun, just with a different stock.

And guess what? The Mini-14 is based directly off of the forerunner of the M-16, the M-14. Same ammunition, same fire rate, and very popular among hunters and varmint shooters. But the "Ranch" version is simply in a "standard" frame.

 

[Mushroom]

In California you would then be a cop. But they have had at least one cop busted for having an AR at his home without the proper licensing.

Hell, not all that long ago in California one of the most outspoken anti-gun Assemblymen was arrested and convicted of ties to organized crime. Including money laundering and selling the very weapons he wanted to make illegal to gangs. And not just "assault rifles", he was actually trying to buy missile launchers from a terrorist group to the Tong. And for all that, he served just three years of a five year sentence.

Myself, I found it rather ironic that a member of the "Brady Campaign Gun Violence Prevention Honor Roll", the "Modern Day Abolitionist Award", and so many others was caught trying to give money to terrorists in order to arm street gangs in the US. It shows just how hypocritical a lot of those that scream against guns are.

 

[Vrenn]

Do you want to know the funniest thing about what you just posted?

Here, take a look at this:

Guess what? It's the exact same freaking rifle!

That's right, both of those are Ruger "Mini-14" rifles, It is like lowering the suspension, adding a glass pack, and putting a scoop on the hood of a Toyota Corolla. Sure it looks different, but it's still a Corolla. No matter how many fancy cosmetic accessories you add to change the looks, it is never going to beat a Corvette off the line without changing the insides also. And no matter that it now "looks like a sports car", the state is not going to raise your registration fees, and your insurance is not going to raise their rates. Because it is not a sports car, it is just a Corolla.

This is the stupidity, that you do not seem to get that at all. Literally judging everything purely upon looks. You simply look, make a snap judgement in your mind, and that is all that matters. Yes, it literally is the same gun, just with a different stock.

And guess what? The Mini-14 is based directly off of the forerunner of the M-16, the M-14. Same ammunition, same fire rate, and very popular among hunters and varmint shooters. But the "Ranch" version is simply in a "standard" frame.

The M-16 has almost nothing to do with the M-14. and your claim that an M-16 uses the same ammo is incorrect. The M-16 uses the 5.56 while the M-14 uses the 7.62 (308) The Mini14 is based off the M-14 while the M-14 is based off the M-1. The AR-10 was the answer to the M-14s drawbacks and the Mini14 has the same drawbacks. But the Military bought the AR-15 instead of either of those two. In 1964, there was NO M-16. Instead, there were two models of the AR-15, the Model 750 and the model 641. They shared over 90% of the parts.

Do they shoot the same even with a different caliber? Not even close. When you start pulling that trigger as fast as you can, the M-16 (or AR-15) stays at least close to the target. Meanwhile, the M-14 is going to be all over place unless you are a really, really big man.

Stoner would be insulted with you comparing his gun with a M-1.

 

[BlackSand]

Do they shoot the same even with a different caliber? Not even close. When you start pulling that trigger as fast as you can, the M-16 (or AR-15) stays at least close to the target. Meanwhile, the M-14 is going to be all over place unless you are a really, really big man.

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Not really ... And you don't even have to be a man ...
Weapon control is all about training and if you are any good at it, you don't even think about it.

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[Vrenn]

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Not really ... And you don't even have to be a man ...
Weapon control is all about training and if you are any good at it, you don't even think about it.

.
.



.​

One of the biggest complaints was the inability to do good control on the M-14 on full auto. That, and the fact of the limited ammo you can carry and the weight. Lug something around 14 hours a day that has the ammo of a Machine Gun but not the weight to control it. It didn't take the Air Force very long to figure that one out.

 

[BlackSand]

Air Force

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That's all you had to say ...
I'll let you know if I need a ride or back-up.

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[Vrenn]

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That's all you had to say ...
I'll let you know if I need a ride or back-up.

.​

The AF was using the AR-15 Model 601 about 10 years before the Army. When I went to basic, that's the rifle we had to qualify with. Not long after that, they were upgraded to the New and Improved (and shittier) Mode 602 that saved a few bucks on how it was manufactured. And our old model 601s were restamped as Mode 601 (M-16) and were superior to anything the Army received.

And you don't need a ride. Company Clerks can just hitchhike on a Jeep.

 

[BlackSand]

The AF was using the AR-15 Model 601 about 10 years before the Army. When I went to basic, that's the rifle we had to qualify with. Not long after that, they were upgraded to the New and Improved (and shittier) Mode 602 that saved a few bucks on how it was manufactured. And our old model 601s were restamped as Mode 601 (M-16) and were superior to anything the Army received.

And you don't need a ride. Company Clerks can just hitchhike on a Jeep.

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That explains it even better ... We don't even use jeeps anymore,
and haven't for decades.


.​

 

[eagle1462010]

We have the best gov't money can buy. They serve themselves and not the people anymore. That has been clear for a long time. They use FEAR during a moment of time to GAIN MORE POWER.........and then use agencies in the Federal Gov't to attack Americans...........And they pissed on the OATH they took usually within the first few days of taking office.

We are Rome.........when the Gov't partied as Rome burns.........with foreign money and abuses.......but they control what we see or hear so too many simply don't know.

 

[bodecea]

First of all whether or not you're democrat or republican I want to thank you for your services, because if anything else,.. you at least deserve that amount of respect from me. Second of all if you're a republican, how do you feel now knowing that the country you put your life on the line fighting for is now fighting against you? How do you feel that your right to bear arms is currently trying to be tampered with and you're headed for censorship and if police are defunded, how it will be less safe for you to sleep soundly at night? And for all of the democrats out there, how can you not feel like there aren't problems in our country?

As a veteran, I've never heard anyone say there aren't problems in our country. There are those, however, trying to ban books that talk of such problems.

 

[Mushroom]

The M-16 has almost nothing to do with the M-14. and your claim that an M-16 uses the same ammo is incorrect.

Wow, and what did I actually say? That is one of the things I love here, is I can post again what I really said, and not what some liar tries to put into my mouth.

And guess what? The Mini-14 is based directly off of the forerunner of the M-16, the M-14.

Wow, I did not say it was the same at all, did I? I never said it used the same ammo as the M-14, I said it used the same ammo as the M-16. I could have worded it better, but I never said it was the same as the M-16, nor used the ammo of the M-14. It uses the same ammo as the 16, but mechanically was based off of the 14.

And how in the hell does any of that have to deal with how lethal they are? Are you trying to claim that the Mini 14 is less lethal than the M-16? That it fires considerably slower? That it is less accurate? Because if none of that is true, what you then lied about and put into my mouth does not make a damned bit of difference.

 

[Mushroom]

One of the biggest complaints was the inability to do good control on the M-14 on full auto.

Want to know how often we are trained to use "full auto"?

Damned near never. Only during FPF was that ever expected. And guess what? During that era in Vietnam, the M-14 was not even the weapon of choice if they did want fully automatic. It was still the BAR. Which by the middle of the war was replaced with the M-60. And with only 20 round magazines, somebody would have to be an idiot to use one full-auto.

 

[Vrenn]

Want to know how often we are trained to use "full auto"?

Damned near never. Only during FPF was that ever expected. And guess what? During that era in Vietnam, the M-14 was not even the weapon of choice if they did want fully automatic. It was still the BAR. Which by the middle of the war was replaced with the M-60. And with only 20 round magazines, somebody would have to be an idiot to use one full-auto.

There were way too many idiots breaking the 11th commandment. Thou shalt not use your weapon in full auto lest you run out of ammo and die. Hence the totally worthless AR-15 Model 604 also called the M-16A4 with the 3 shot burst that no one in their right mind used. You are just as well using a Model 750 which is an AR-15 made by colt.

 

[Mushroom]

Hence the totally worthless AR-15 Model 604 also called the M-16A4 with the 3 shot burst that no one in their right mind used.

Errr, that is the M-16A2. Which had a lot more improvements that just the 3 round burst. Like the heavy barrel, improved plastic and ergonomic front grip, and a vastly improved sight system. The M-16A4 is the current model, and it has damned little to do with the 604.

The 604 was never given another designation, as it was still largely a prototype and only used by the AF. This is obvious in that it still did not have the forward assist, and the three-prong flash suppressor.

Discussing rather obscure variants that never entered large production or wide distribution is rather silly. There were dozens of variants, that are almost unknown because they were for special purposes. Like the M231.

Or the M261, which allowed you to fire a .22 long rifle round from an M-16.

Or the 603, an early attempt to make a carbine by cutting the barrel and shortening the stock.

In fact, one of the strangest variants of the M-16 was the M-240 flamethrower.

Where they almost literally made a mold off an early M-16 series rifle, and used that for the firing portion of a flamethrower.

 

[Vrenn]

Errr, that is the M-16A2. Which had a lot more improvements that just the 3 round burst. Like the heavy barrel, improved plastic and ergonomic front grip, and a vastly improved sight system. The M-16A4 is the current model, and it has damned little to do with the 604.

The 604 was never given another designation, as it was still largely a prototype and only used by the AF. This is obvious in that it still did not have the forward assist, and the three-prong flash suppressor.

The rest was omitted because it is just smoke screen.

BTW, are you aware that the primary rifle for the US Marines is the A4 as well as the AF. Are you aware that the Army uses both the A2 and the A4. In the end, all Army A2s will be modded to the A4. It's done not from here and has been ongoing for about a decade or more.

Please don't let these facts enter into your own opinions.

 

[Dayton3]

I served 25 years.

I have served in Afghanistan, HoA, Iraq, Japan (2x), Korea, Turkey....and more

I served under four presidents from Clinton to Trump.

At NO point did I ever buy into the "spreading freedom and Democracy" bullshit.

That lie was exposed in Vietnam, and reconfirmed in the first Gulf War.

I knew that my country was not altruistic.

I knew that the US military was a foreign policy tool...not a defender of the homeland.

We are a nation who will pour crocodile tears over the death of a child "at the hands of terror" but then bomb an innocent wedding party, or fund dictators who will.

I knew my country was run by crooks, criminals, sociopaths, and sadists.

However, I also grew up dirt poor and my goal was a pension with benefits.

You pick your devils I guess.

That was the goal...mission accomplished.

So what is new?

When they passed the Patriot Act who do you think it was for?

The TUUUUUUURRRRISTS?!!

No mfer..that was for YOU!

I think as a Vet that you people are faaaaarrrrr too trusting of a government who has been downright evil foreign and domestic.

My dad was drafted and sent to Korea. One hard year of fighting along the 38th parallel. His views were completely opposite of yours.

 

[Mushroom]

BTW, are you aware that the primary rifle for the US Marines is the A4 as well as the AF.

It is today, not in the 1960s. Here, thanks to the magic of quoting, let me show again what you tried to claim.

Hence the totally worthless AR-15 Model 604 also called the M-16A4

Once again, the Model 604 is not the A4. There were huge freaking difference between the two, and one came decades after the first.

But please, continue to misquote me, it is rather funny. Especially as you then try to spin more bullshit and getting things like facts wrong by decades.

Please don't let these facts enter into your own opinions.

You see, this is the difference. I am giving actual facts, you are giving nothing but opinions.

Now once again, care to tell us how the M-16 is a more lethal and dangerous weapon than the Ranch version of the Mini-14? DO not think I did not notice that you completely ignored that. Or that you said the Mini-14 is fine, but the M-16 is not. Please, tell us why one is fine and the other is not.

Unless you just have a thing against looks.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

My dad was drafted and sent to Korea. One hard year of fighting along the 38th parallel. His views were completely opposite of yours.

hahah! That's be cause he served in the military more than a half century before me.

Ya think the country was a little different then?

 

[Vrenn]

It is today, not in the 1960s. Here, thanks to the magic of quoting, let me show again what you tried to claim.



Once again, the Model 604 is not the A4. There were huge freaking difference between the two, and one came decades after the first.

But please, continue to misquote me, it is rather funny. Especially as you then try to spin more bullshit and getting things like facts wrong by decades.



You see, this is the difference. I am giving actual facts, you are giving nothing but opinions.

Now once again, care to tell us how the M-16 is a more lethal and dangerous weapon than the Ranch version of the Mini-14? DO not think I did not notice that you completely ignored that. Or that you said the Mini-14 is fine, but the M-16 is not. Please, tell us why one is fine and the other is not.

Unless you just have a thing against looks.

I have experience with both and can tell you that the reload rate of the M-16 in hands of a novice is as fast as the reload rate of a Mini-14 in the hands of an expert. Stoner saw to that.

 

[Dayton3]

hahah! That's be cause he served in the military more than a half century before me.

Ya think the country was a little different then?

Somewhat. Not entirely.