Zone1 Mormons are fine, but I have to call BS on the golden plates story.

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

We know from the Bible that plural marriage was at one time sanctioned by God. Faithful prophets of old married more than one wife.

• Sarai gave Hagar to Abram as his wife, Gen. 16:1–11.
• Jacob received Leah and Rachel and their handmaidens as wives, Gen. 29:21–28 (Gen. 30:4, 9, 26).
• If a man take another wife, he shall not diminish the first wife’s possessions, Ex. 21:10.
• David and his two wives went up to Hebron, 2 Sam. 2:1–2.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that having only one wife is the general law of marriage unless God commands otherwise. We believe that God commanded Joseph Smith to practice the law of plural marriage.

My personal belief is that plural marriage was part of the restitution of all things spoken of by the prophets of old. In the New Testament we read:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Here it is prophesied that Jesus, after his death and resurrection, was prophesied that he would again be sent among us. However, he would remain in heaven until the time of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. One of those things which God had spoken by the mouth of his prophets was the law of plural marriage. Many Old Testament prophets lived by the law of plural marriage and this was sanctioned by God. We believe that the prophet Joseph Smith opened the time of the restitution of all things or in other words the dispensation of the fulness of times (see Ephesians 1:10). I believe that God felt that the law of plural marriage was one of those things that was to have restitution or restoration. Thus he commanded Joseph Smith to abide by this law.

For a detailed look at the wives of Joseph Smith and the research done by the church see:

Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage (Polygamy)​

fairlatterdaysaints is only one of several different LDS (CoJC) interpretations. The fun thing now is that a developing schism is growing pitting a small minority of Mormons arguing that Joseph Smith was really a monogamist and, as a result of secret cabal of LDS apostles, murdered in Carthage Jail and blamed on the Missouri militia.

 

[Cougarbear]

When it was translated by people who really could read ancient Egyptian writing Joseph Smith was exposed as a fraud.

Like I asked, do you want to join the intelligent? Because you are not. Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of the Dead. What is wrong with you?

 

[Cougarbear]

You do not prove that by asserting that. I exposed the fraud of the Book of Abraham by myself before I learned that experts on the ancient Egyptians had reached my conclusions.

You didn't expose anything. You copy from people that are haters of Mormons. Nothing you wrote is of your own research. You learned nothing but repeated anti-Mormon talking points that are false with their assertions. You simply are so prideful that you can't even admit you and all your non-experts are wrong being proved wrong.

 

[Hector12]

You didn't expose anything. You copy from people that are haters of Mormons. Nothing you wrote is of your own research. You learned nothing but repeated anti-Mormon talking points that are false with their assertions. You simply are so prideful that you can't even admit you and all your non-experts are wrong being proved wrong.

I began my study of the Book of Abraham with an article given to me by the two Mormon missionaries who were proselytizing me BS that was written by Hugh Nimbly. This article has a photograph of the entire manuscript that had been found in 1966.

I thought this sounded like the Book of the Dead, which I had early learned about, so I went to a local library and checked out a book that included the Book of the Dead along with the English translation.

That, and a copy of the Book of Abraham was all I had. I did not copy anything from "haters of Mormons." It was only years latter that I learned that those who could really read ancient Egyptian writing agreed with me.

 

[Cougarbear]

I began my study of the Book of Abraham with an article given to me by the two Mormon missionaries who were proselytizing me BS that was written by Hugh Nimbly. This article has a photograph of the entire manuscript that had been found in 1966.

I thought this sounded like the Book of the Dead, which I had early learned about, so I went to a local library and checked out a book that included the Book of the Dead along with the English translation.

That, and a copy of the Book of Abraham was all I had. I did not copy anything from "haters of Mormons." It was only years latter that I learned that those who could really read ancient Egyptian writing agreed with me.

Where do you get the idea Hugh Nibley said the entire manuscript or papyrus was found. The fire destroyed 99% of it. Explain yourself.

Also, why would you say the Book of Abraham sounds like the Book of the Dead? Even if there were similarities in both, which there isn’t, Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Abraham before the Book of the Dead was found and translated into English. “Book of the Dead” is a modern term to describe a series of ancient Egyptian funerary spells that helped the deceased find their way to the afterlife in order to become united with the god of the dead, Osiris.Explain yourself? You can’t. You don’t know what either book is about. You are a fraud.

 

[Hector12]

Where do you get the idea Hugh Nibley said the entire manuscript or papyrus was found. The fire destroyed 99% of it. Explain yourself.

Also, why would you say the Book of Abraham sounds like the Book of the Dead? Even if there were similarities in both, which there isn’t, Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Abraham before the Book of the Dead was found and translated into English. “Book of the Dead” is a modern term to describe a series of ancient Egyptian funerary spells that helped the deceased find their way to the afterlife in order to become united with the god of the dead, Osiris.Explain yourself? You can’t. You don’t know what either book is about. You are a fraud.

You are guessing when you say that 99% of the Book of Breathing was destroyed. The Book of Breathing was written two thousand years ago. It does not matter when it was re discovered.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are guessing when you say that 99% of the Book of Breathing was destroyed. The Book of Breathing was written two thousand years ago. It does not matter when it was re discovered.

RETARD alert. There are scraps and the fact is the vast majority of the documents used by smith were destroyed and recorded as such. You are a ******* idiot.

 

[hobelim]

No question they got it horribly wrong
, but that doesn't change what Koresh did.

Maybe so but putting women and children and people he deceived into harms way ultimately killing them all seems to be even worse to me than what Koresh may or may not have done.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are guessing when you say that 99% of the Book of Breathing was destroyed. The Book of Breathing was written two thousand years ago. It does not matter when it was re discovered.

Here you go again being unable to comprehend what we write to you. Notice that we continue to respond to you as we have patience for the slow thinking individuals. I never said 99% of the Book of Breathing was destroyed. I said the 99% of the Papyrus was destroyed. So little was left that we don't know what the entire Papyrus was actually about from a translation perspective. But, we know what the Lord inspired Joseph Smith to actually write about with the Pearl of Great Price and it is all true.

 

[Hector12]

Here you go again being unable to comprehend what we write to you. Notice that we continue to respond to you as we have patience for the slow thinking individuals. I never said 99% of the Book of Breathing was destroyed. I said the 99% of the Papyrus was destroyed. So little was left that we don't know what the entire Papyrus was actually about from a translation perspective. But, we know what the Lord inspired Joseph Smith to actually write about with the Pearl of Great Price and it is all true.

What we have identifies the manuscript Joseph Smith had as an ancient copy of the Book of Breathing, which is a form of the Book of the Dead. What we have makes no mention of Abraham, even though what we have conforms closely with Joseph Smith's Facsimile No. 1.

I discovered this on my own with nothing to work with but an article by Hugh Nimbly, a library book that contained the Book of the Dead and an English translation, and a copy of the Book of Abraham. Only later did I learn that scholars who can read ancient Egyptian writing agree with me.

The Lord did not inspire Joseph Smith. Smith was not a prophet, or even a deluded man. He was a brilliant charlatan. Like Mohammed, the religion he invented enabled him to have a harem of lovely young ladies.

 

[Cougarbear]

What we have identifies the manuscript Joseph Smith had as an ancient copy of the Book of Breathing, which is a form of the Book of the Dead. What we have makes no mention of Abraham, even though what we have conforms closely with Joseph Smith's Facsimile No. 1.

View attachment 783846

I discovered this on my own with nothing to work with but an article by Hugh Nimbly, a library book that contained the Book of the Dead and an English translation, and a copy of the Book of Abraham. Only later did I learn that scholars who can read ancient Egyptian writing agree with me.

The Lord did not inspire Joseph Smith. Smith was not a prophet, or even a deluded man. He was a brilliant charlatan. Like Mohammed, the religion he invented enabled him to have a harem of lovely young ladies.

I was going to point this out myself and then went to JeffLindsay.com and found a lot on this subject of Facsimile 1. The first thing I see is not a dead person lying down. The Book of the Dead does not have anything about the living. So, here is a bit of reading and pretty much dispels your stupid very immature and lack of knowledge on this subject. You might want to read all of the section on jefflindsay.com and grow a pair.

"Note that Facsimile 1 is NOT the ordinary mummified figure that one sees in the Book of Breathings. The Book of Breathings typically depicts a person who is dead and wrapped in cloth, which would be totally unrelated to the Book of Abraham. But Facsimile 1 has a person who is clearly alive, with one leg up in a way that precisely puts the person in the position shown in the hieroglyph denoting prayer (I present the graphical evidence for this in Part 2, about one-third of the way down in the text). Unlike any ordinary Book of Breathings figure, here we have a person who is alive and praying, as described in the Book of Abraham (1:15).

Whatever is or was in the attached text that went with Facsimile 1, there is a reasonable case that the figure attached to it--Facsimile 1--is related to the text of the Book of Abraham, and does not seem to fit the content of a typical Book of Breathings. In fact, non-LDS scholar Marc Coenen observed that the vignette in Joseph Smith Papyrus I (Facsimile 1) is not used in any other copy of the Document of Breathings Made by Isis, which raises the question of whether Facsimile 1 actually belongs with the Book of Breathings at all. See Marc Coenen, "An Introduction to the Document of Breathings Made by Isis," Revue d'Egyptologie 49 (1998): 37–45, as cited by John Gee, An Introduction to the Book of Abraham (Provo, Utah: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2017), p. 80. Kerry Muhlestein also notes that "this is the only copy of any Book of Breathings with this vignette and that the position of the hands and legs is unique for this type of vignette...." See "The Book of Breathings in Its Place," FARMS Review 17/2 (2005): 471–86; quote on p. 476.

Given the uniqueness of Facsimile 1 and its lack of a relationship to other copies of the Book of Breathings, the critics may be right in asking why a figure from the Book of Abraham was attached to an unrelated Book of Breathings. But the most puzzling apparent "unrelationship" may not be between the figure and Joseph's translation, but between the figure and the Book of Breathings." - Mormon Answers, LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

 

[Hector12]

I was going to point this out myself and then went to JeffLindsay.com and found a lot on this subject of Facsimile 1. The first thing I see is not a dead person lying down. The Book of the Dead does not have anything about the living. So, here is a bit of reading and pretty much dispels your stupid very immature and lack of knowledge on this subject. You might want to read all of the section on jefflindsay.com and grow a pair.

"Note that Facsimile 1 is NOT the ordinary mummified figure that one sees in the Book of Breathings. The Book of Breathings typically depicts a person who is dead and wrapped in cloth, which would be totally unrelated to the Book of Abraham. But Facsimile 1 has a person who is clearly alive, with one leg up in a way that precisely puts the person in the position shown in the hieroglyph denoting prayer (I present the graphical evidence for this in Part 2, about one-third of the way down in the text). Unlike any ordinary Book of Breathings figure, here we have a person who is alive and praying, as described in the Book of Abraham (1:15).

Whatever is or was in the attached text that went with Facsimile 1, there is a reasonable case that the figure attached to it--Facsimile 1--is related to the text of the Book of Abraham, and does not seem to fit the content of a typical Book of Breathings. In fact, non-LDS scholar Marc Coenen observed that the vignette in Joseph Smith Papyrus I (Facsimile 1) is not used in any other copy of the Document of Breathings Made by Isis, which raises the question of whether Facsimile 1 actually belongs with the Book of Breathings at all. See Marc Coenen, "An Introduction to the Document of Breathings Made by Isis," Revue d'Egyptologie 49 (1998): 37–45, as cited by John Gee, An Introduction to the Book of Abraham (Provo, Utah: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2017), p. 80. Kerry Muhlestein also notes that "this is the only copy of any Book of Breathings with this vignette and that the position of the hands and legs is unique for this type of vignette...." See "The Book of Breathings in Its Place," FARMS Review 17/2 (2005): 471–86; quote on p. 476.

Given the uniqueness of Facsimile 1 and its lack of a relationship to other copies of the Book of Breathings, the critics may be right in asking why a figure from the Book of Abraham was attached to an unrelated Book of Breathings. But the most puzzling apparent "unrelationship" may not be between the figure and Joseph's translation, but between the figure and the Book of Breathings." - Mormon Answers, LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

The part of the Book of Breathing that we have makes no mention of Abraham. Instead it mentions ancient Egyptian gods and goddesses.

Also, the manuscript was written much later than the time of Abraham, so it could not have possibly have been written "in his own write."

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

And there was no Chaldea at the time of the character called 'Abraham.'

Chaldea did not exist until 800 years later at the very earliest.

 

[Cougarbear]

The part of the Book of Breathing that we have makes no mention of Abraham. Instead it mentions ancient Egyptian gods and goddesses.

Also, the manuscript was written much later than the time of Abraham, so it could not have possibly have been written "in his own write."

Oh, now you are going to move the goal posts from the Facsimile 1 that you pasted on your last post to prove Joseph Smith was a fraud in translation. But, now you see that the facsimile 1 isn't even about the Book of the Dead for the man's leg is moving up in the air. Therefore your second statement has no bearing and no importance because it has no connection to the Book of the Dead. And, if you would bother reading the test in Jefflindsay.com I gave you, there is only a fraction of the papyrus left from the fire. While there were incorrect statements from Nibley, that doesn't dismiss everything Nibley worked on since he had first count information. You need to become a complete student of the work instead of this small little nonsense you show us that was incorrect.

 

[Cougarbear]

And there was no Chaldea at the time of the character called 'Abraham.'

Chaldea did not exist until 800 years later at the very earliest.

Abraham was a Hebrew (Eber). Not Chaldean. Abraham's son Ishmael is the father of the Arabs or Chaldeans.

 

[Zebra]

I've read a fair amount on the various major religions and I have to say, the story of Angel Moroni and the Golden Plates is the most suspect of all the stories I've read. Is there a Mormon out there who can better explain or defend why he or she believes these plates exist and were given to the Prophet Joseph to transcribe the Book of Mormon? This is not a knock on Mormons I have friends who are Mormons and they are very nice people and do lots of good things in the community and have good families. It's the Golden Plates story that just sounds like pure fantasy to me.

are Mormons also Christians?

 

[Zebra]

who believes in those golden plates?

 

[rightwinger]

who believes in those golden plates?

It is the old bait and switch

Well, I had those plates that only I could read, but some Angel took them so you can’t see them

Same thing with Moses and the 10 commandments

God gave me those commandments, but I got mad and smashed them so you can’t see them

 

[Zebra]

It is the old bait and switch

Well, I had those plates that only I could read, but some Angel took them so you can’t see them

Same thing with Moses and the 10 commandments

God gave me those commandments, but I got mad and smashed them

It is the old bait and switch

Well, I had those plates that only I could read, but some Angel took them so you can’t see them

Same thing with Moses and the 10 commandments

God gave me those commandments, but I got mad and smashed them

a good parallel!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

are Mormons also Christians?

Yes