Zone1 Question for the Catholics: is This True?

[SweetSue92]

How can Greek use 'cousin' if there is no word for 'cousin' in Hebrew or Aramaic?

Why are the cousins always hanging out with Mary, for pity's sake?

You've heard of Occam's Razor, right?

What's the big deal if Mary had more children? Catholics made up Perpetual Virgin....

 

[Meriweather]

As my husband would say, "Seems like you're straining to do some explaining"

Quite the reverse. I suggested people do their own research. If they go to King James, not a problem. It will lead to one conclusion. Does that conclusion truly matter to how one lives life today? The same with the Hebrew/Aramaic. Does that conclusion truly matter to how one lives life today? I've always been an enthusiast of researching all perspectives of everything. Throughout my life, it has been a great hobby of mine.

For some reason, Mary having sex and many children is very important to Protestants. I don't see how that belief causes any harm. The fact that I know the Hebrew/Aramaic, the genealogy, the scripture and writings of early Church fathers certainly has not changed the way I live my life.

 

[SweetSue92]

Quite the reverse. I suggested people do their own research. If they go to King James, not a problem. It will lead to one conclusion. Does that conclusion truly matter to how one lives life today? The same with the Hebrew/Aramaic. Does that conclusion truly matter to how one lives life today? I've always been an enthusiast of researching all perspectives of everything. Throughout my life, it has been a great hobby of mine.

For some reason, Mary having sex and many children is very important to Protestants. I don't see how that belief causes any harm. The fact that I know the Hebrew/Aramaic, the genealogy, the scripture and writings of early Church fathers certainly has not changed the way I live my life.

Correct information is important. It leads to correct thinking, which leads to correct living. That's first.

Second, we do not adhere to nor condone the elevation of Mary from a godly woman chosen by God to an idol to be worshipped. She was a special woman, but just a woman, a married woman who had other children.

Put another way: why is it important to you that she never had sex?

 

[Meriweather]

Why are the cousins always hanging out with Mary, for pity's sake?

You've heard of Occam's Razor, right?

What's the big deal if Mary had more children? Catholics made up Perpetual Virgin....

Again, research the culture of that time. It would have been early Christians if anything was "made up" by anyone. It was noteworthy at the time for a couple to remain a celibate after marriage, and there was such a practice by a few who took this vow.

Catholics have always upheld Apostolic and early Church Fathers writings and traditions. Fifteen hundred years later, some began new traditions, and one is that Mary and Joseph had sex and more children. Indeed, what's the big deal? How does either position change how one lives his/her life today?

 

[SweetSue92]

Again, research the culture of that time. It would have been early Christians if anything was "made up" by anyone. It was noteworthy at the time for a couple to remain a celibate after marriage, and there was such a practice by a few who took this vow.

Catholics have always upheld Apostolic and early Church Fathers writings and traditions. Fifteen hundred years later, some began new traditions, and one is that Mary and Joseph had sex and more children. Indeed, what's the big deal? How does either position change how one lives his/her life today?

Well, we don't pray to Mary, we don't have statues of Mary that we venerate, and we believe what the Bible says.

 

[Meriweather]

Correct information is important. It leads to correct thinking, which leads to correct living. That's first.

Second, we do not adhere to nor condone the elevation of Mary from a godly woman chosen by God to an idol to be worshipped. She was a special woman, but just a woman, a married woman who had other children.

Put another way: why is it important to you that she never had sex?

I don't believe information about a Biblical couple's sex life, either correct or incorrect, is going to lead to correct living. There are events/teachings more vital that cover correct living.

It seems to bother Protestants that Catholics honor Mary more than non-Catholics do. Our worship of God more than eclipses that honor of Mary. Is it your position that you give Mary no more honor than you give the neighbor lady who lives down the street? After all, they're "just" women. (That's not how I describe any woman, and I still have mommy issues.)

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't believe information about a Biblical couple's sex life, either correct or incorrect, is going to lead to correct living. There are events/teachings more vital that cover correct living.

It seems to bother Protestants that Catholics honor Mary more than non-Catholics do. Our worship of God more than eclipses that honor of Mary. Is it your position that you give Mary no more honor than you give the neighbor lady who lives down the street? After all, they're "just" women. (That's not how I describe any woman, and I still have mommy issues.)

It leads you to incorrect living, as you've woven an entire false narrative that not only was she chosen by God (special) to birth the Savior (very special), but that she is the Queen of Heaven who not only remained a virgin BUT was somehow herself conceived without sin. Listen, every Catholic wedding I've been to, Ave Maria is sung and the couple lays flowers at her feet.

That is indeed incorrect living.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, we don't pray to Mary, we don't have statues of Mary that we venerate, and we believe what the Bible says.

So what if you exclude Mary (or any other person living or who has passed on) from your prayers? You still, pray, correct? If that's always a solitary event, what's the harm? And what's the harm of people joining together in prayer?

Take it from someone who does way too much research: Biblical interpretation. People believe what they believe the Bible says. It's a caution every Bible should come with.

 

[SweetSue92]

So what if you exclude Mary (or any other person living or who has passed on) from your prayers? You still, pray, correct? If that's always a solitary event, what's the harm? And what's the harm of people joining together in prayer?

Take it from someone who does way too much research: Biblical interpretation. People believe what they believe the Bible says. It's a caution every Bible should come with.

My interpretation here is Biblically sound, and makes sense in context. Yours does not. It's a real reach to come to the conclusion you have.

Praying to/for/with Mary is idolatry and divination, and the Bible has a lot to say about that. I mean....at this point you just pick and choose what you like though, so I guess that matters not.

 

[Meriweather]

It leads you to incorrect living, as you've woven an entire false narrative that not only was she chosen by God (special) to birth the Savior (very special), but that she is the Queen of Heaven who not only remained a virgin BUT was somehow herself conceived without sin. Listen, every Catholic wedding I've been to, Ave Maria is sung and the couple lays flowers at her feet.

That is indeed incorrect living.

First: Then you haven't been to many Catholic weddings. Mine was a Catholic wedding, and there was no Ave Maria, and no honoring Mary by laying flowers at her feet. Mary is considered the mother of the Church, the mother of our savior. Mothers are honored at weddings. Didn't you honor your own mother on your wedding day?

Second: Back in Biblical times, the queen was not the wife of the king (as kings tended to have many wives). The queen was the mother of the king, so for early Christians that automatically gave Mary the title of queen. There is no other mother of Jesus. If you don't wish to think of Mary as queen, then don't think of Jesus as king.

 

[JoeB131]

The OP may be confusing a fictional Pope Leo XIV (a fictional character following Pope Leo XIII in the early 1900s). Pope Leo XIII had encouraged Catholics to pray the Rosary.

An interesting point the Vatican and the actual Pope Leo XIV did make recently, was to state clearly Mary should not be viewed as "co-redeemer". The Vatican (and the Pope) confirm that Mary is, in fact, part of God's plan for redemption, but not as a co-redeemer, but as the mother God chose for Jesus, our redeemer.

Translation- When Christianity supplanted Paganism, they needed a "Mother Goddess" to replace all the Mother Goddesses like Juno, Hera, Isis, etc that people were already worshipping.

 

[Meriweather]

My interpretation here is Biblically sound, and makes sense in context. Yours does not. It's a real reach to come to the conclusion you have.

Praying to/for/with Mary is idolatry and divination, and the Bible has a lot to say about that. I mean....at this point you just pick and choose what you like though, so I guess that matters not.

Keep in mind I have researched how you and others have come to what you call the Biblically sound interpretation. As you have not followed the research of my own studies, you are in no position to judge what is sound. You can only judge the distance between your conclusions and the conclusions of others.

Label prayers with Mary anyway you choose. False/inaccurate labeling is abundant in our society. Check any grocery store. Telling me I pick and choose what I like is rich, isn't it? Especially as you have no clue as what I do believe, or the conclusions I have reached. I've merely been offering why so many of the Christian population believe differently than you.

 

[Meriweather]

Translation- When Christianity supplanted Paganism, they needed a "Mother Goddess" to replace all the Mother Goddesses like Juno, Hera, Isis, etc that people were already worshipping.

Claim your own conclusions, Joe. Don't attribute them to me.

 

[JoeB131]

Claim your own conclusions, Joe. Don't attribute them to me.

Actually, it was more the conclusion of theological scholars that the veneration of Mary (and of Saints in general) is a form of soft polytheism. Couldn't quit all those household Gods cold turkey.

"So, um, yeah, there's just one God who is three people, but they are kind of busy right now, so pray to St. Servatius for your sore feet."
(No, seriously, the Catholics have a saint for Sore Feet!)

St. Servatius (Foot or Leg Ailments) Healing Medal Set

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives, and the one who seeks, finds, and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." Matthew 7:7-8 Prayer is an essential tool for healing and is an excellent...

thecatholicgiftstore.com

This sounded silly to me when I was a kid, and I completely rejected it after my parents passed.

 

[Meriweather]

soft polytheism

Ah, another pretentious label. It is worthy of being a grocery store label.

 

[JoeB131]

Ah, another pretentious label. It is worthy of being a grocery store label.

Ah, you forget who you are talking to.

So do Catholics pray to the Saints? Yes or no? Seems like a simple enough question.

focus.org/posts/25-patron-saints-of-really-random-things/

Hey, St. Bibiana...I could have used her in my younger days... she's the patron saint of Hangovers!!!

 

[Meriweather]

Ah, you forget who you are talking to.

So do Catholics pray to the Saints? Yes or no? Seems like a simple enough question.

focus.org/posts/25-patron-saints-of-really-random-things/

Hey, St. Bibiana...I could have used her in my younger days... she's the patron saint of Hangovers!!!

Is there anything humans cannot do wrong? Is there anything in this world that cannot be misused? People can choose to do right; we can learn to use anything properly.

 

[SweetSue92]

Keep in mind I have researched how you and others have come to what you call the Biblically sound interpretation. As you have not followed the research of my own studies, you are in no position to judge what is sound. You can only judge the distance between your conclusions and the conclusions of others.

Label prayers with Mary anyway you choose. False/inaccurate labeling is abundant in our society. Check any grocery store. Telling me I pick and choose what I like is rich, isn't it? Especially as you have no clue as what I do believe, or the conclusions I have reached. I've merely been offering why so many of the Christian population believe differently than you.

So you did your own studies--contradictory of the clear language--but because I have not followed YOUR studies particularly I know nothing? Interesting.

Then:

Is the Bible truly open to individual interpretation, or can it be taken as written?

 

[ding]

So do Catholics pray to the Saints?

In communion with saints.

 

[JoeB131]

Is there anything humans cannot do wrong? Is there anything in this world that cannot be misused? People can choose to do right; we can learn to use anything properly.

What does that have to do with my point about the Church creating fake saints and having fake relics that they make people pray to?