Question about Jews

[guno]

Now another point that the dumb goyim miss

Isaiah 7:14, in Hebrew means maiden, not virgin. Therefore, it is not a prophecy.


the christian version o Isaiah 7:14 mis-tates that a virgin will bear a son. The problem is dealing with the Hebrew word for virgin, which is almah. According to the (christian) Strong's Concordance it means, "virgin, young woman 1a) of marriageable age 1b) maid or newly married." Therefore, the word almah does not always mean virgin. The word "occurs elsewhere in the Torah; Genesis 24:43 (maiden); Exodus 2:8 (girl); Psalm 68:25 (maidens); Proverbs 30:19 (maiden); Additionally, there is a Hebrew word for virgin: bethulah

but when the goyim bible was put together the ignorant goyim mis translated the word or purposely did that so the pagans would accept christianity as their gods had virgin births too

Again the goyim bible has noting to do with Torah, Nor does the Torah have anthying to do with the goyim man god


Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
2. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
3. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
4. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

In Judaism, God is a single indivisable unit. So no offspring or son is possible. Plus, more basicly, God isn't an organism that can reproduce itself as with having a son.

Son of God is just a relational metaphor indicating an intimate relationship with and knowledge of God above that of an ordinary prophet, a servant of God.

The term has nothing whatever to do with God having offspring , except figuratively, in the same way the expression 'Sons of Light' has nothing whatever to do with light having offspring.

So, who was God talking to, when He said, 'Let Us make man in Our image'?

To his angels.

Why would He have wanted to create man to be like Lucifer and his minions? It says in the Gospel of John, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is the Word, and He was there in the beginning.

Through 2000 years of teaching, the Jews have come to believe that their Messiah is yet to come, they just don't yet realize that when their Messiah comes(back) it will be as a Lion, and not the Lamb, and all those prophesies about the Messiah that has yet to be fulfilled, will be completed, yet even then, most will refuse to believe. And not just the Jews, but most of the Gentiles as well.

Then what's in it to you, if you're such a flawless righteous believer, what do you care? you're place in heaven is guaranteed.

I am far from flawless, I can't go an hour without committing a sin, unless I'm asleep, that is.

Why do I care? Because I love everyone, at least I try to, though some make it hard to, and I don't mean those on here, but those who do hideous things to others, my finding love and forgiveness for them is near to impossible to me, and that is one of the major flaws I have in my faith.

And I care because, I know that even when I was drowning in my sin, God loved me, even though I didn't deserve it, and I still don't.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

And...isn't the holy spirit just really strong faith? I dunno. It's all really kinda confusing.

No, the Holy Spirit and faith are 2 completely different things.

You have faith that the sun will come up in the morning, yet you don't believe in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Meriweather]

Now another point that the dumb goyim miss

Isaiah 7:14, in Hebrew means maiden, not virgin. Therefore, it is not a prophecy.


the christian version o Isaiah 7:14 mis-tates that a virgin will bear a son. The problem is dealing with the Hebrew word for virgin, which is almah. According to the (christian) Strong's Concordance it means, "virgin, young woman 1a) of marriageable age 1b) maid or newly married." Therefore, the word almah does not always mean virgin. The word "occurs elsewhere in the Torah; Genesis 24:43 (maiden); Exodus 2:8 (girl); Psalm 68:25 (maidens); Proverbs 30:19 (maiden); Additionally, there is a Hebrew word for virgin: bethulah

but when the goyim bible was put together the ignorant goyim mis translated the word or purposely did that so the pagans would accept christianity as their gods had virgin births too

Again the goyim bible has noting to do with Torah, Nor does the Torah have anthying to do with the goyim man god


Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. 
   
   
   • Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
   • Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
   • Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
   • Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Do try and keep up. Many of us have known this ever since we were mere youngsters in religion and/or Bible study classes. Yes, there are some Christian denominations who do not footnote the passages, and who even argue the meaning of the words are synonymous. Naturally, denominations who have readily acknowledged the passage in the Old Testament references a young wife of that day are readily overlooked as being no fun at all.

Matthew's Gospel was written with the intent that the Old Testament be used as a foreshadowing of the New Testament: i.e., Matthew believed the history of the Jewish people pointed straight to Jesus. Foreshadowing in any story is never an identical event. Look at Matthew's genealogy of Christ as compared to Luke's. Matthew wished to make certain points/comparisons--his was not simply a list of names, but an emphasis of well-known stories of the day.

One of the short-comings of the Protestant view that only an individual and the Holy Spirit are needed to understand the Bible is that much of the culture and history in the Bible are "understood" (rather misunderstood) through the distorted lens of modern day thought and knowledge. Too many (but not all) people discount that Isaiah was writing to the people of his time, speaking of things and people who were familiar to those of his day and age, and think of the Bible as the Holy Spirit speaking directly (and solely) to them.

Then people like you categorize all the faithful as ignorant, which (to me) is just as irritating as those who read Revelation as a future event rather than as apocalyptic literature--a literary style popular back in the first century of the current era.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

In Judaism, God is a single indivisable unit. So no offspring or son is possible. Plus, more basicly, God isn't an organism that can reproduce itself as with having a son.

Son of God is just a relational metaphor indicating an intimate relationship with and knowledge of God above that of an ordinary prophet, a servant of God.

The term has nothing whatever to do with God having offspring , except figuratively, in the same way the expression 'Sons of Light' has nothing whatever to do with light having offspring.

So, who was God talking to, when He said, 'Let Us make man in Our image'?

To his angels.

Why would He have wanted to create man to be like Lucifer and his minions? It says in the Gospel of John, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is the Word, and He was there in the beginning.

Through 2000 years of teaching, the Jews have come to believe that their Messiah is yet to come, they just don't yet realize that when their Messiah comes(back) it will be as a Lion, and not the Lamb, and all those prophesies about the Messiah that has yet to be fulfilled, will be completed, yet even then, most will refuse to believe. And not just the Jews, but most of the Gentiles as well.

We say angles, and you jump to Lucifer? Nice.

Lucifer is no angel, Lucifer didn't have any place among angels to start with.

Yet, Lucifer was an angel, and Jews and Christians alike believe that he was still walking between earth and heaven at the time of Job. So it's a pretty easy jump to figure that he was an angel in good standing, at the time of creation, but that is all subjective.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

They are Gods chosen. Or so the bible says. Maybe they are. Let's agree that this is truth. They are Gods favorites.

Shouldn't God's favorites believe that He sent his Son as savior? And if they continue to deny this, is this why they are still having so many problems as Jews? Is God punishing them for refusing to acknowledge Jesus as Savior even after the horrors they have suffered for so long and are still suffering? Wouldn't that kind of be a clue to them that maybe..just maybe...God is pissed and they need to wake the hell up?

I dunno. Which is why I am asking.

Commandment Two: You shall have no Gods beside Me.

That's actually number 1. And its, Thou shall have no other gods before Me.

Number 2 is: Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image.

No. It's number 2. It's only number 1 for Christians.

1. I am the Lord thy God
2. You shall have no Gods beside me.

So Moses brought down 11 commandments?

And, isn't "I am the Lord thy God" a statement and not a commandment?

 

[Gracie]

And...isn't the holy spirit just really strong faith? I dunno. It's all really kinda confusing.

No, the Holy Spirit and faith are 2 completely different things.

You have faith that the sun will come up in the morning, yet you don't believe in the Holy Spirit.

You as in general you? I didn't say I didn't believe in the holy spirit. I was asking a question.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Now another point that the dumb goyim miss

Isaiah 7:14, in Hebrew means maiden, not virgin. Therefore, it is not a prophecy.


the christian version o Isaiah 7:14 mis-tates that a virgin will bear a son. The problem is dealing with the Hebrew word for virgin, which is almah. According to the (christian) Strong's Concordance it means, "virgin, young woman 1a) of marriageable age 1b) maid or newly married." Therefore, the word almah does not always mean virgin. The word "occurs elsewhere in the Torah; Genesis 24:43 (maiden); Exodus 2:8 (girl); Psalm 68:25 (maidens); Proverbs 30:19 (maiden); Additionally, there is a Hebrew word for virgin: bethulah

but when the goyim bible was put together the ignorant goyim mis translated the word or purposely did that so the pagans would accept christianity as their gods had virgin births too

Again the goyim bible has noting to do with Torah, Nor does the Torah have anthying to do with the goyim man god


Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. 
   
   
   • Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
   • Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
   • Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
   • Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

1. Ezekiel 37:26"I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27"My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.…

I contend that Jesus has already fulfilled this prophesy. He has made a covenant with those whom believe in Him, He multiplied us to untold numbers, and has set His sanctuary in our midst, via the Holy Spirit. His dwelling place is in our hearts, He is our God and we are His people.

2. Let's look at Isaiah 42 and 43 and get a whole understanding of what was being said.
1“Here is my servant, whom I uphold,

my chosen one in whom I delight;

I will put my Spirit on him,

and he will bring justice to the nations.

2He will not shout or cry out,

or raise his voice in the streets.

3A bruised reed he will not break,

and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.

In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;

4he will not falter or be discouraged

till he establishes justice on earth.

In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”

5This is what God the Lord says—

the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out,

who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it,

who gives breath to its people,

and life to those who walk on it:

6“I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness;

I will take hold of your hand.

I will keep you and will make you

to be a covenant for the people

and a light for the Gentiles,

7to open eyes that are blind,

to free captives from prison

and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.

8“I am the Lord; that is my name!

I will not yield my glory to another

or my praise to idols.

9See, the former things have taken place,

and new things I declare;

before they spring into being

I announce them to you.”

Song of Praise to the Lord

10Sing to the Lord a new song,

his praise from the ends of the earth,

you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,

you islands, and all who live in them.

11Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;

let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.

Let the people of Sela sing for joy;

let them shout from the mountaintops.

12Let them give glory to the Lord

and proclaim his praise in the islands.

13The Lord will march out like a champion,

like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;

with a shout he will raise the battle cry

and will triumph over his enemies.

14“For a long time I have kept silent,

I have been quiet and held myself back.

But now, like a woman in childbirth,

I cry out, I gasp and pant.

15I will lay waste the mountains and hills

and dry up all their vegetation;

I will turn rivers into islands

and dry up the pools.

16I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,

along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;

I will turn the darkness into light before them

and make the rough places smooth.

These are the things I will do;

I will not forsake them.

17But those who trust in idols,

who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’

will be turned back in utter shame.

Israel Blind and Deaf

18“Hear, you deaf;

look, you blind, and see!

19Who is blind but my servant,

and deaf like the messenger I send?

Who is blind like the one in covenant with me,

blind like the servant of the Lord?

20You have seen many things, but you pay no attention;

your ears are open, but you do not listen.”

21It pleased the Lord

for the sake of his righteousness

to make his law great and glorious.

22But this is a people plundered and looted,

all of them trapped in pits

or hidden away in prisons.

They have become plunder,

with no one to rescue them;

they have been made loot,

with no one to say, “Send them back.”

23Which of you will listen to this

or pay close attention in time to come?

24Who handed Jacob over to become loot,

and Israel to the plunderers?

Was it not the Lord,

against whom we have sinned?

For they would not follow his ways;

they did not obey his law.

25So he poured out on them his burning anger,

the violence of war.

It enveloped them in flames, yet they did not understand;

it consumed them, but they did not take it to heart.

1But now, this is what the Lord says—

he who created you, Jacob,

he who formed you, Israel:

“Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;

I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

2When you pass through the waters,

I will be with you;

and when you pass through the rivers,

they will not sweep over you.

When you walk through the fire,

you will not be burned;

the flames will not set you ablaze.

3For I am the Lord your God,

the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;

I give Egypt for your ransom,

Cusha and Seba in your stead.

4Since you are precious and honored in my sight,

and because I love you,

I will give people in exchange for you,

nations in exchange for your life.

5Do not be afraid, for I am with you;

I will bring your children from the east

and gather you from the west.

6I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’

and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’

Bring my sons from afar

and my daughters from the ends of the earth—

7everyone who is called by my name,

whom I created for my glory,

whom I formed and made.”

8Lead out those who have eyes but are blind,

who have ears but are deaf.

9All the nations gather together

and the peoples assemble.

Which of their gods foretold this

and proclaimed to us the former things?

Let them bring in their witnesses to prove they were right,

so that others may hear and say, “It is true.”

10“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,

“and my servant whom I have chosen,

so that you may know and believe me

and understand that I am he.

Before me no god was formed,

nor will there be one after me.

11I, even I, am the Lord,

and apart from me there is no savior.

12I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—

I, and not some foreign god among you.

You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.

13Yes, and from ancient days I am he.

No one can deliver out of my hand.

When I act, who can reverse it?”

God’s Mercy and Israel’s Unfaithfulness

14This is what the Lord says—

your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:

“For your sake I will send to Babylon

and bring down as fugitives all the Babylonians,b

in the ships in which they took pride.

15I am the Lord, your Holy One,

Israel’s Creator, your King.”

16This is what the Lord says—

he who made a way through the sea,

a path through the mighty waters,

17who drew out the chariots and horses,

the army and reinforcements together,

and they lay there, never to rise again,

extinguished, snuffed out like a wick:

18“Forget the former things;

do not dwell on the past.

19See, I am doing a new thing!

Now it springs up; do you not perceive it?

I am making a way in the wilderness

and streams in the wasteland.

20The wild animals honor me,

the jackals and the owls,

because I provide water in the wilderness

and streams in the wasteland,

to give drink to my people, my chosen,

21the people I formed for myself

that they may proclaim my praise.

22“Yet you have not called on me, Jacob,

you have not wearied yourselves forc me, Israel.

23You have not brought me sheep for burnt offerings,

nor honored me with your sacrifices.

I have not burdened you with grain offerings

nor wearied you with demands for incense.

24You have not bought any fragrant calamus for me,

or lavished on me the fat of your sacrifices.

But you have burdened me with your sins

and wearied me with your offenses.

25“I, even I, am he who blots out

your transgressions, for my own sake,

and remembers your sins no more.

26Review the past for me,

let us argue the matter together;

state the case for your innocence.

27Your first father sinned;

those I sent to teach you rebelled against me.

28So I disgraced the dignitaries of your temple;

I consigned Jacob to destructiond

and Israel to scorn.

If you choose to pick out a verse here or there, I can show you that you should go and hang yourself.

3. Isaiah 2:
2In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established

as the highest of the mountains;

it will be exalted above the hills,

and all nations will stream to it.

3Many peoples will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,

to the temple of the God of Jacob.

He will teach us his ways,

so that we may walk in his paths.”

The law will go out from Zion,

the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4He will judge between the nations

and will settle disputes for many peoples.

They will beat their swords into plowshares

and their spears into pruning hooks.

Nation will not take up sword against nation,

nor will they train for war anymore.

5Come, descendants of Jacob,

let us walk in the light of the Lord.

Again, I contend that Jesus has already fulfilled most of this prophesy and the rest will come.

4. I agree with you whole heartedly on that, but the name that shall be praised will be Jesus.

 

[Disir]

They are Gods chosen. Or so the bible says. Maybe they are. Let's agree that this is truth. They are Gods favorites.

Shouldn't God's favorites believe that He sent his Son as savior? And if they continue to deny this, is this why they are still having so many problems as Jews? Is God punishing them for refusing to acknowledge Jesus as Savior even after the horrors they have suffered for so long and are still suffering? Wouldn't that kind of be a clue to them that maybe..just maybe...God is pissed and they need to wake the hell up?

I dunno. Which is why I am asking.

Commandment Two: You shall have no Gods beside Me.

That's actually number 1. And its, Thou shall have no other gods before Me.

Number 2 is: Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image.

No. It's number 2. It's only number 1 for Christians.

1. I am the Lord thy God
2. You shall have no Gods beside me.

So Moses brought down 11 commandments?

And, isn't "I am the Lord thy God" a statement and not a commandment?

You think your Old Testament is identical to the Torah?

: And G-d spoke all these words, saying:

(Ed: The Ten Commandments Follow in Bold)

2: I am HaShem thy G-d , who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage (Ed: Commandment 1).

3: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me (Ed: Commandment 2).

4: Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth ;

5: thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I HaShem thy G-d am a jealous G-d, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;

6: and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

7: Thou shalt not take the name of HaShem thy G-d in vain (Ed: Commandment 3); for HaShem will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain .

8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Ed: Commandment 4)

9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work;

10: but the seventh day is a sabbath unto HaShem thy G-d, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates;

11: in six days HaShem made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore HaShem blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12: Honour thy father and thy mother (Ed: Commandment 5), that thy days may be long upon the land which HaShem thy G-d giveth thee.

13: Thou shalt not murder (Ed: Commandment 6); Thou shalt not commit adultery (Ed: Commandment 7); Thou shalt not steal (Ed: Commandment 8); Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour (Ed: Commandment 9).

14: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife (Ed: Commandment 10), nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Shemot Exodus Chapter 20 Jewish Virtual Library

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

And...isn't the holy spirit just really strong faith? I dunno. It's all really kinda confusing.

No, the Holy Spirit and faith are 2 completely different things.

You have faith that the sun will come up in the morning, yet you don't believe in the Holy Spirit.

You as in general you? I didn't say I didn't believe in the holy spirit. I was asking a question.

yes, as in a general you, I should have said that some might not believe in the Holy Spirit. Sorry, for the confusion.

I communicate about as well as Moses did.

 

[Gracie]

Why is God spelled G-D with a thingy in the middle? Showing respect?

 

[Disir]

Yep.

 

[HaShev]

but I also see it as making it known that our concept/definition/perception is seperate then others, thus never utter the same terminology, and distinctly seperate then others use of the same word.

 

[HaShev]

Ullysess said: lucifer is an angel who walked between earth and heaven.

Sorry Jewish accts can be found openly in the OT and contradict your beliefs and perception of the description.
1) angels are merely the words definition as messengers, reflections of the Essence, not spirit beings, not winged myths. NT and OT and clergy disclose they can be Rabbis, bishops, cardinals called angels, men.
2) the best description of the fallen failed first messiah is in Ezekiel 28, Lucifer is called an image of a man that walked the garden of eden, this doesn't mean heaven or earth, it means his "image" existed in the area of ancient Persia where the garden is described by the 2 rivers crossing. That image is Mithra that existed there and was brought to Tarsus by Roman soldiers and used to make the image of Jesus when converging all cults & religions into one world religion. Lucifer is an image deemed perfect (sinless) and called the anointed (christ) cherub (guardian in Hebrew-Nazarene)-Ezekiel 28:14-15
Earlier in the chapter the son of perdition (to fall to the pit)
Acts 2:27, 1Peter3:19 apostles creed Jesus fell to the pit by the hands of Rome(seas) for calling himself a god as earlier verses of Ezekiel explain on son of perdition.

Lastly they tell you who Jesus was at the end of the joke
Rev 22:16 he is the morning star aka Lucifer aka son of Baal and Ishtar(easter).

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Ullysess said: lucifer is an angel who walked between earth and heaven.

Sorry Jewish accts can be found openly in the OT and contradict your beliefs and perception of the description.
1) angels are merely the words definition as messengers, reflections of the Essence, not spirit beings, not winged myths. NT and OT and clergy disclose they can be Rabbis, bishops, cardinals called angels, men.
2) the best description of the fallen failed first messiah is in Ezekiel 28, Lucifer is called an image of a man that walked the garden of eden, this doesn't mean heaven or earth, it means his "image" existed in the area of ancient Persia where the garden is described by the 2 rivers crossing. That image is Mithra that existed there and was brought to Tarsus by Roman soldiers and used to make the image of Jesus when converging all cults & religions into one world religion. Lucifer is an image deemed perfect (sinless) and called the anointed (christ) cherub (guardian in Hebrew-Nazarene)-Ezekiel 28:14-15
Earlier in the chapter the son of perdition (to fall to the pit)
Acts 2:27, 1Peter3:19 apostles creed Jesus fell to the pit by the hands of Rome(seas) for calling himself a god as earlier verses of Ezekiel explain on son of perdition.

Lastly they tell you who Jesus was at the end of the joke
Rev 22:16 he is the morning star aka Lucifer aka son of Baal and Ishtar(easter).

The great majority of Bible scholars believe Job to have been written before the books of Moses, and thus, many many years before the book of Ezekiel.

Job 1:6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."…
Job 2:1Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. 2The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."…

So please tell me, where did the sons of God present themselves before the Lord at?

Acts 2:27 in every translation says
New International Version
because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, you will not let your holy one see decay.New Living Translation
For you will not leave my soul among the dead or allow your Holy One to rot in the grave.English Standard Version
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.New American Standard Bible
BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.King James Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.Holman Christian Standard Bible
because You will not leave me in Hades or allow Your Holy One to see decay. International Standard Version
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades or allow your Holy One to experience decay.NET Bible
because you will not leave my soul in Hades, nor permit your Holy One to experience decay. Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Because you did not leave my Soul in Sheol and you did not give your Pure One to see destruction.”GOD'S WORD® Translation
because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay.Jubilee Bible 2000
because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.King James 2000 Bible
Because you will not leave my soul in hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption.American King James Version
Because you will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.American Standard Version
Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.Douay-Rheims Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, nor suffer thy Holy One to see corruption. Darby Bible Translation
for thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, nor wilt thou give thy gracious one to see corruption.English Revised Version
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.Webster's Bible Translation
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption:Weymouth New Testament
For Thou wilt not leave me in the Unseen World forsaken, nor give up Thy holy One to undergo decay.World English Bible
because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.Young's Literal Translation
because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;

1 Peter 3:19
New International Version
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--New Living Translation
So he went and preached to the spirits in prison--English Standard Version
in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,New American Standard Bible
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,King James Bible
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;Holman Christian Standard Bible
In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prisonInternational Standard Version
in which he went and made a proclamation to those imprisoned spirits NET Bible
In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison, Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he preached to those souls who were held in Sheol,GOD'S WORD® Translation
In it he also went to proclaim his victory to the spirits kept in prison.Jubilee Bible 2000
in which he also went and preached unto the imprisoned spirits,King James 2000 Bible
By whom also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;American King James Version
By which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison;American Standard Version
in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,Douay-Rheims Bible
In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: Darby Bible Translation
in which also going he preached to the spirits [which are] in prison,English Revised Version
in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,Webster's Bible Translation
By which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison;Weymouth New Testament
in which He also went and proclaimed His Message to the spirits that were in prison,World English Bible
in which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison,Young's Literal Translation
in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach,


The verses you used to illustrate that Jesus fell, do not hold up under scrutiny, as your post does not, if you knew more about your own religion, you might know how to teach it, but you trying to teach mine, is akin to an eighth grade student trying to teach a college graduate. The student knows bits and pieces while the graduate knows much more.

It must really inflame you that many Gentiles knows more about The Tanakh than a great number of Jews do.

 

[Mindful]

AND for the record...I asked because I am really wanting to understand it all according to Jewish beliefs. I mean, really. It amazes me the trials and tribulations they have gone thru..and horribly I might add...and still have probs. And they still deny Jesus as the messiah. Two and two make four. So..I don't get it.

The Messiah is an earthly person. Not a supernatural half God half human.

 

[Mindful]

Adar 24

In 1451, Pope Nicholas V issued a decree forbidding all social contact between Christians and Jews. The Church sought to stop Christian converts to Judaism; throughout Europe, those who did so were liable to the death penalty.

 

[HaShev]

UlysesS you inadvertantly proved my points:
by using Job about. "sons of God" a term meaning reflective emulations of, the people were sons of God, angels (messengers) were sons of God, David was called God's begotten son, Solomon was called God's son, therefore you proved if Christianity swears Jesus the only begotten son of their god then they admit their father/God is another, which is the only reason why a faith would slay and spend money converting Jews away from Yhwh, the same God they claim he already is, thus admiting Jesus father is Baal and why they never say who this father is by name. If it was the same God of Abraham then they'd spend the money and effort converting non Yhwh worshipers instead. BUSTED!

Your denial about Jesus fall is also making things worse because you repeated that Jesus was the gate keeper of hades and Rev says that's the devil.
Furthermore when Jesus asked Mary to lie for him in John, he told them to say he rose to his father instead of his going to Hades. =Father of lies. Therefore we see the iniquities in his false image made perfect as Ezekiel 28 also states about Lucifer.
Using Christianities own standard of reasoning Jesus being the only prophet ever deemed perfect, who came as the first and fallen anointed cherub is the only one that could ever be deemed Lucifer, nobody else can be deemed those things-NOBODY. You can't change the order either, Lucifer doesn't come second and can't tell you who the adversary is (which is what Satan means), only Michael (the Evening star) can tell you who his adversary is (Morning star)-Rev 22:16

 

[Gracie]

Wow.Now I am crosseyed and truly have a bald spot on my head from all the scratching.

 

[HaShev]

Wow.Now I am crosseyed and truly have a bald spot on my head from all the scratching.

Actually it's not to hard to figure out when you study the pattern of Rome and how they conquered and controlled kingdoms and cultures. Always setting themselves up as new authority & new temple to the people's deities.
Rome was the adversary at the time of the writings, thus being warned about by John of Patmos as the one world religion ploy occuring in his time not a later time.
Motive: Their expansion was being met with resistance, &revolts were taking place against their authority and taxes. For Rome to make kingdoms submit to their whims and authority and to collect money from them they had to now cleverly hide the Political power behind the mask of religious authority with cultural familiar masks thus converged deities and mythologies pleasing each culture they ruled over. This is called the two horn (power) system, which is why the symbolism of the devil is the scarlet (color of Rome) with two horns (powers) both political hidden behind it's religious authority. Now Rome could stick it's feet in many kingdoms like warned, and be unsuspected nor challenged, while also collected taxes without revolt in the form of tithes to the cultures gods. Collecting money for salvation and homage to their deities when that money was lifting high Romes power and authority as the real god of this world speaking ehind the mask of the one world religious image named Jesus.
One of the charachters used for the Jesus image had warned, they will "come in my name" (meaning his name) and say I am christ (saying HE IS Christ-not they are) and deceive many. Throuout the NT they speak of son of man third person tense as another future person not that he is son of man. Rome the adversary created his mage using many christ figures and mythical deities to draw Jews and other cultures to this new religion under their control. Baal worship given new name and mask to get revolting Jews to worship Baal under he guise of fulfilled prophecy. Meanwhile all that as fulfilled was the warning of this perfect image of man representing the allen one aka Lucifer.