Putin to Neocons Trying to Put Intermediate Range Missiles on His Ukraine Border: Play Stupid Games, Get Stupid Prizes

[Rigby5]

No nukes were ever employed against Germany by the US or anyone else.

We just carpet bombed their war industries and cities where they were located into dust and rubble with unguided and highly inaccurate gravity bombs.

When the US directly engaged Russia destroying their aircraft, personnel, and stock piles of chemical weapons in Syria, how did Putin respond?

When we destroyed an entire battalion of his troops in Syria who had engaged US troops and refused to disengage, How did Putin Respond?

Putin is a despicable but brilliant pragmatist, a rabid sociopath, and a mass murderer but mostly he's in this for profit and to start establishing his legacy.

What he isn't is stupid or crazy, he knows full well that his first use of a nuke would mean the utter and complete devastation of every thing and everyone he ever cared about when we replied with overwhelming force.

If a coalition were formed to drive his troops out of Ukraine he'd run with his tail between his legs as usual when faced with insurmountable odds but unless that force pursued what remains of his army into Russia proper, no, he's not going to resort to nukes.

He's not going to resort to nukes over Ukraine, to do so would destroy everything he has, everything he's built, and everything he hopes to achieve before assuming ground temperature.

Wrong.
There were never any Russian troops in Syria, and one possible Russian plane was destroyed, that likely was inoperative for a very long time.
Putin is not despicable at all, but vastly more honorable than the US counterparts who lied about things like Iraqi WMD.
No matter who joined a coalition to protect the Ukraine, Putin can not possibly back down.
He would have push the launch button first.
Nor could the west possibly win.
It is Russian home turf.
If we tried a no-fly-zone or anything else, we would be annihilated.

 

[eagle1462010]

If we tried a no-fly-zone or anything else, we would be annihilated.

Overboard. You OVERRATE RUSSIA...........Conventionally we would get hurt but they would lose. They are NOT THE OLD USSR now.

If they use Nukes then EVERYONE LOSES.......MAD ........has always been the deal.

 

[Rigby5]

Overboard. You OVERRATE RUSSIA...........Conventionally we would get hurt but they would lose. They are NOT THE OLD USSR now.

If they use Nukes then EVERYONE LOSES.......MAD ........has always been the deal.

Wrong.
Russia was always prepared for a nuclear war.
They have hardened electronics, and do not rely on fragile electronics, like computers or cellphones, for anything.
We do.
With just 3 or 4 airburst EMP's spaced over the US, all computers, electronics, cars, cellphones, etc., would be totally dead and impossible to repair.

Russia would be harmed by a nuclear war, but could tolerate it.
The US would never exist again, and break up into a bunch of tribes with spears.

 

[eagle1462010]

Wrong.
Russia was always prepared for a nuclear war.
They have hardened electronics, and do not rely on fragile electronics, like computers or cellphones, for anything.
We do.
With just 3 or 4 airburst EMP's spaced over the US, all computers, electronics, cars, cellphones, etc., would be totally dead and impossible to repair.

Russia would be harmed by a nuclear war, but could tolerate it.
The US would never exist again, and break up into a bunch of tribes with spears.

You are completely wrong. They would NOT SURVIVE IT. That is why it is called the MAD principle. One SSBN with a full load and the MIRVS would Destroy Russia all by itself.

Conventionally. They can NOT BEAT US.......

 

[bripat9643]

But the indepence of the Ukraine is dependent upon them not committing crimes or violating treaties, like not stealing oil, not trying to join NATO and put nukes on Russia's border.

Says who?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Wrong.
There were never any Russian troops in Syria, and one possible Russian plane was destroyed, that likely was inoperative for a very long time.
Putin is not despicable at all, but vastly more honorable than the US counterparts who lied about things like Iraqi WMD.
No matter who joined a coalition to protect the Ukraine, Putin can not possibly back down.
He would have push the launch button first.
Nor could the west possibly win.
It is Russian home turf.
If we tried a no-fly-zone or anything else, we would be annihilated.

That's complete BS, Syria has and had a sizeable force of Russians "helping" them.

Russian involvement in the Syrian civil war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2017 Shayrat missile strike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We know Saddam had WMD's, they were inventoried at the end of the Gulf war and he was required to destroy them as part of a ceasefire agreement. He played chicken with the UNSCOM inspectors for hears running a shell game of moving them from one site to another and hiding them in his various palaces.

The only real question is what happened to them and there's strong evidence that just before the invasion he moved them to Syria.

He knew that his threat to use WMD's was really the only card he had left which is why right up until the final days of the final assault he kept warning us that if the coalition troops did not stop he would employ them as his final act before going down. Pretty much every intel agency in the free world agreed on this assessment.

Curious though you call our people liars and say they are more despicable than the guy who has actually used chemical weapons on civilians multiple times since coming to power as Russia's leader.

Putin is neither stupid nor insane. He knows that if he were to use a nuke He's dead, Russia is sent back to the stone age and Russia effectively ceases to be a nation.

It's time the world stopped running scared and stood up to him here and now because if they don't things are going to get much worse and definitely will at some point risk a nuclear exchange.

All bully's are the same, kick them in the balls, punch them in the face, then stomp the shit out of them and they cease to be a problem.

Living in fear and appeasing them never works and we have countless examples of both.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Bad idea.
The Ukraine started this war with several acts of war.
So Putin was left no other choice, and sending any weapons to the Ukraine will only result in more dead Ukrainians.

All the facts prove this to be a lie.

Russian started this war in 2014 by sending in their political op's and spooks to stir up a revolt in the Donbas region.

The war in Donbas,[note 1] or the Donbas War, is an armed conflict in the Donbas region of Ukraine, part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War. In March 2014, immediately following the Euromaidan protest movement and subsequent Revolution of Dignity, protests by pro-Russian, anti-government separatist groups took place in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine, collectively called the Donbas. These demonstrations began around the same time as Russia's annexation of Crimea, and were part of wider pro-Russian protests across southern and eastern Ukraine. Declaring the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR, respectively), armed Russian-backed separatist groups seized government buildings throughout the Donbas, leading to armed conflict with the Ukrainian government forces.[31]

While the initial protests were largely native expressions of discontent with the new Ukrainian government, Russia took advantage of them to launch a coordinated political and military campaign against Ukraine.[32] Russian citizens led the separatist movement in Donetsk from April until August 2014, and were supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia.[33][34][35] As the conflict escalated in May 2014, Russia employed a "hybrid approach", deploying a combination of disinformation, irregular fighters, regular Russian troops, and conventional military support to destabilize the Donbas.[36][37][38] ... .

War in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Believe it or not some people believe certain causes are worth dying for and the Ukranians have decided they'd rather die that live under Russian subjugation.

This war will be Putin's undoing and it is going to take Russia Decades to recover economically because of the decisions this murderous war criminal made for his own personal enrichment and glory.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

But the indepence of the Ukraine is dependent upon them not committing crimes or violating treaties, like not stealing oil, not trying to join NATO and put nukes on Russia's border.

No such treaty exists and there was never even a thought about NATO putting nukes into Ukraine, that just Putin's BS and propaganda.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Overboard. You OVERRATE RUSSIA...........Conventionally we would get hurt but they would lose. They are NOT THE OLD USSR now.

If they use Nukes then EVERYONE LOSES.......MAD ........has always been the deal.

If nothing else this botched invasion has proven conclusively that Russia's Military is mostly just a paper tiger.

Their state of readiness even with a long lead up to prepare for the invasion was pitiful and it should be glaringly obvious that their mostly 40-60 year old armor and aircraft are woefully outdated and unreliable at best.

They have only a handful of tanks that could even compete with our retired M60's and all are heavily outmatched by the Abrams and those fielded by the rest of NATO.

Their planes and Helicopters have been dropping like flies and they are barely able to manage a handful of sorties on a daily basis with their fixed wing fighters and attack planes and even their latest and greatest gunship helicopters have proven to be next to useless even against Ukraine's Soviet era AA much less the the forty year old Stinger MANPADs.

The combat losses of equipment have been utterly staggering with most of their armored assets that have been killed were killed with shoulder fired missiles and they now litter the countryside.

Worse, best estimates put their human losses at somewhere between 8,000-10,000 dead and probably five times that number of wounded.

Russia has spent most of it's budget developing modern very high tech war machines but they can't even afford to produce them in any volume other than for export, while totally ignoring their aging fleets of Soviet Era planes and armor.

By the time this is over, it's going to take Russia decades to replace those loses with their meager defense budget and they'll have a hell of a time raising any more money from sales of that equipment after the world has seen just how ineffective they have been in the field.

Add to that the world finally getting together to say, "enough is enough" and while leveling sanctions against Russia more severe than anything we've seen since the end of WWII, and their economy is and will remain in shambles far into the future.

Unfortunately Putin's ego which drove this from the start will not allow him to even admit to himself just how badly he's screwed the pooch here so he'll have to be driven out by a combination of fighting and the inability to finance his invasion, much less an occupation for more than another 4-6 weeks.

 

[Rigby5]

You are completely wrong. They would NOT SURVIVE IT. That is why it is called the MAD principle. One SSBN with a full load and the MIRVS would Destroy Russia all by itself.

Conventionally. They can NOT BEAT US.......

It is easy to beat us.
With about 3 airburst EMP pulses over the US, all vehicles, computers, cellphones, etc., in the US would be dead.
The US could never recover.
We would be done for,

While Russia does not rely on microelectronic and would survive an airbust EMP pulse easily.
They have a much less fragile and planned economy that can easily take and survive a nuclear war.

 

[Rigby5]

Says who?

Says Gorbachev and the Ukrainians who negotiated the independence of the Ukraine in 1992.
The treaty specifically stated the Ukraine was not to join any alliance hostile to Russia, like NATO.
So Zelensky trying to join NATO was essentially an act of war, not just a treaty violation.

 

[Rigby5]

That's complete BS, Syria has and had a sizeable force of Russians "helping" them.

Russian involvement in the Syrian civil war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2017 Shayrat missile strike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We know Saddam had WMD's, they were inventoried at the end of the Gulf war and he was required to destroy them as part of a ceasefire agreement. He played chicken with the UNSCOM inspectors for hears running a shell game of moving them from one site to another and hiding them in his various palaces.

The only real question is what happened to them and there's strong evidence that just before the invasion he moved them to Syria.

He knew that his threat to use WMD's was really the only card he had left which is why right up until the final days of the final assault he kept warning us that if the coalition troops did not stop he would employ them as his final act before going down. Pretty much every intel agency in the free world agreed on this assessment.

Curious though you call our people liars and say they are more despicable than the guy who has actually used chemical weapons on civilians multiple times since coming to power as Russia's leader.

Putin is neither stupid nor insane. He knows that if he were to use a nuke He's dead, Russia is sent back to the stone age and Russia effectively ceases to be a nation.

It's time the world stopped running scared and stood up to him here and now because if they don't things are going to get much worse and definitely will at some point risk a nuclear exchange.

All bully's are the same, kick them in the balls, punch them in the face, then stomp the shit out of them and they cease to be a problem.

Living in fear and appeasing them never works and we have countless examples of both.

Totally wrong.
Russia only had aircraft and missile support in Syria, no ground troops.

The claim Saddam EVER had WMD was proven wrong by Deulfler and Keys after we invaded and took over, and still found not a single thing.
The ONLY thing Saddam ever had was simple mustard gas.
He never had Sarin, VX or anything at all sophisticated.

The inventory of WMD Saddam had back at the end of Desert Storm was all destroyed, in the presence of UN inspectors.

The "shell game" was totally made up and fake, an excuse for the US to illegally blockade civilian commerce.

The claim that a Sunni like Saddam would give away WMD to his Shiite enemies like Assad, is ludicrous.

And no, Saddam did NOT use chemical weapons on people like the lies about Halabja.
That was proven by the US Army School it was Iran who gassed Halabja, not Saddam.
In fact, Saddam was working with a Kurdish coalition against the Iranian attack and was only providing air cover.
The ground forces on Saddam's side that took Halabja were all Kurdish.

And anyone who claims Putin is the bad guy in this is just a liar.
It is clear the US bought and paid for the current government in Kyiv, and told them to deliberately cause this current situation, by doing everything they knew Putin could not possibly tolerate, like massacring ethnic Russians, violating treaties, trying to put NATO nuke on Russia's border, cutting off negotiations, etc.

The only "bully" is the US.
We do not belong there, are deliberately murdering people, are totally profit motivated, and have the worst history of rights abuse in the entire world. Like ending the Iranian democracy in 1953, backing Syngman Rhee in Korea, backing Diem in Vietnam, backing Marcos in the Philippines, backing Pinochet in Chile, backing Samosa in Nicaragua, etc.
The US is the single most evil country in the world, and has been since we massacred 90% of the native Americans, and sent the Great White Fleet around the world. Ask the Moros of the Philippines if they think we are the good guys.

 

[bripat9643]

Says Gorbachev and the Ukrainians who negotiated the independence of the Ukraine in 1992.
The treaty specifically stated the Ukraine was not to join any alliance hostile to Russia, like NATO.
So Zelensky trying to join NATO was essentially an act of war, not just a treaty violation.

Who says Gorbachev is correct? Do you have a quote of any of them saying this? Why should we believe any of them?

 

[Rigby5]

All the facts prove this to be a lie.

Russian started this war in 2014 by sending in their political op's and spooks to stir up a revolt in the Donbas region.

War in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Believe it or not some people believe certain causes are worth dying for and the Ukranians have decided they'd rather die that live under Russian subjugation.

This war will be Putin's undoing and it is going to take Russia Decades to recover economically because of the decisions this murderous war criminal made for his own personal enrichment and glory.

At no time did Russia ever try to "subjugate" the Ukraine.
The Ukraine instead started massacring ethnic Russians.
It is obvious.
The dead at Bucha were not Ukrainians murdered by Russian soldiers, but ethnic Russians murdered by AZOV and fascist Ukrainians.
The proof is they did not use tie straps or anything organized, but bound people with plastic bags, pieces of cloth, etc.
So it was AZOV militia who did the mass murders, not Russian soldiers.

The Crimea, Donetsk, were Russian. They historically were always Russian and Khrushchev had no right or authority to give them away to his favorite, the Ukraine.

You are obviously lying. No one could be that ignorant of the facts.

 

[Rigby5]

No such treaty exists and there was never even a thought about NATO putting nukes into Ukraine, that just Putin's BS and propaganda.

Lies.
There is no way Gorbachev would have agreed to the independence of the Ukraine without security treaties.
And we know they exist and that Zelensky's attempts to join NATO are obvious violations.
The fact NATO may not have wanted to put nukes in the Ukraine now, means nothing.
NATO did put nukes in Poland, until they were forced to remove them.
So clearly NATO wants a first strike capability against Russia, by putting nukes on their border.

 

[eagle1462010]

It is easy to beat us.
With about 3 airburst EMP pulses over the US, all vehicles, computers, cellphones, etc., in the US would be dead.
The US could never recover.
We would be done for,

While Russia does not rely on microelectronic and would survive an airbust EMP pulse easily.
They have a much less fragile and planned economy that can easily take and survive a nuclear war.

The world survived before all of this.........lmao

If they fire the emps..........the NUKES WOULD FOLLOW BOTH SIDES.........and the world would end.

Stop with your FEAR MONGERING........If someone is dumb enough to fire Nukes the WORLD ENDS..........and FRANKLY I'M SICK AND TIRED OF RUSSIANs and Putin THREATENING EVERYONE WITH IT.

Makes me wonder if the fucker is stable.........if he isn't stable then we need to take his ass out.

 

[Rigby5]

If nothing else this botched invasion has proven conclusively that Russia's Military is mostly just a paper tiger.

Their state of readiness even with a long lead up to prepare for the invasion was pitiful and it should be glaringly obvious that their mostly 40-60 year old armor and aircraft are woefully outdated and unreliable at best.

They have only a handful of tanks that could even compete with our retired M60's and all are heavily outmatched by the Abrams and those fielded by the rest of NATO.

Their planes and Helicopters have been dropping like flies and they are barely able to manage a handful of sorties on a daily basis with their fixed wing fighters and attack planes and even their latest and greatest gunship helicopters have proven to be next to useless even against Ukraine's Soviet era AA much less the the forty year old Stinger MANPADs.

The combat losses of equipment have been utterly staggering with most of their armored assets that have been killed were killed with shoulder fired missiles and they now litter the countryside.

Worse, best estimates put their human losses at somewhere between 8,000-10,000 dead and probably five times that number of wounded.

Russia has spent most of it's budget developing modern very high tech war machines but they can't even afford to produce them in any volume other than for export, while totally ignoring their aging fleets of Soviet Era planes and armor.

By the time this is over, it's going to take Russia decades to replace those loses with their meager defense budget and they'll have a hell of a time raising any more money from sales of that equipment after the world has seen just how ineffective they have been in the field.

Add to that the world finally getting together to say, "enough is enough" and while leveling sanctions against Russia more severe than anything we've seen since the end of WWII, and their economy is and will remain in shambles far into the future.

Unfortunately Putin's ego which drove this from the start will not allow him to even admit to himself just how badly he's screwed the pooch here so he'll have to be driven out by a combination of fighting and the inability to finance his invasion, much less an occupation for more than another 4-6 weeks.

That is stupid.
The US started this war by telling Zelensky to commit half a dozen unforgivable acts of war.
Russia then had no alternative.
Russia has to finish this now, and will win, no matter what it takes.

 

[Rigby5]

Who says Gorbachev is correct? Do you have a quote of any of them saying this? Why should we believe any of them?

None of use speak Russian, nor were at the conferences.
But it was always said that the Ukraine refraining from alliances hostile to Russia was the single most important point.
Anyone disagreeing with that would have to be a lunatic.

 

[Rigby5]

The world survived before all of this.........lmao

If they fire the emps..........the NUKES WOULD FOLLOW BOTH SIDES.........and the world would end.

Stop with your FEAR MONGERING........If someone is dumb enough to fire Nukes the WORLD ENDS..........and FRANKLY I'M SICK AND TIRED OF RUSSIANs and Putin THREATENING EVERYONE WITH IT.

Makes me wonder if the fucker is stable.........if he isn't stable then we need to take his ass out.

Wrong.
EMPs would destroy only the US, because only the US relies on that level of microelectronics.
And if pushed far enough, Russia has no choice.
Anything would be preferable than to have the corruption of the US ruling the whole world, without any balance.
Imagine how many more than just 3 million dead there would have been in Vietnam, if not for Russia helping to keep Vietnam free and independent from US corruption?

 

[eagle1462010]

Wrong.
EMPs would destroy only the US, because only the US relies on that level of microelectronics.
And if pushed far enough, Russia has no choice.
Anything would be preferable than to have the corruption of the US ruling the whole world, without any balance.
Imagine how many more than just 3 million dead there would have been in Vietnam, if not for Russia helping to keep Vietnam free and independent from US corruption?

OH FUCK YOU........Of course they have a damn choice..........Now if they keep pushing us........WE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE.

Now your sorry ass is threatening to EMP US...........You do that...........YOU ARE DEAD.........Do you understand what I'm saying.

I'm tired of your daily threats IVAN.........You want to start a War......shit or get off the pot.....

I guarantee you......if you fire EMPS at the UNITED STATES......it WILL BE THE LAST TIME RUSSIA FIRES ANYTHING