The Iran Issue Shows Right Wing Media Can Really Be Immoral and Unlawful!

[j-mac]

j-mac is mad they are better at it than Trump.

You’re a fool.

 

[jacksonlamb]

You’re a fool.

^ Projection

 

[protectionist]

In this past Monday's Wall Street Journal the principle editorial article was, "The Real Nuclear History of Iran", and it was an utter disgrace it tried to defend the Trump administrations military efforts in Iran and in so doing denied important truths, utilized half-truths and spun facts to support views that weren't accurate. This U.S military action in Iran is really important for many reasons but two stand out for me one this war was a completely immoral war, Iran wasn't close to possessing a nuclear missile and just because your enemy is getting strong like building a ton of ballistic missiles and drones such as Iran was doesn't give a country moral justification for go to war with that target country. The other is that Donald Trump really damaged America's reputation as a moral and principled country in going to war here America has made mistakes in prior wars such as in Vietnam because we supported a corrupt government but there was some moral justification for the war that being fighting communism where communism was a big danger in the 1960's but this Iran war it is totally an unlawful and immoral war and blows up our country's reputation as a trustworthy good country and that is why America's traditional allies like the U.K., France and Germany want no parts of it! The Editorial Editor responsible for this article if this is his or her standard of work shouldn't be working in the journalism profession, journalist have a civil duty to be promoting and supporting a good society not undermining it!

The article begins by condemning those media sources that contend that the President Obama's international nuclear agreement with Iran was working it was stopping Iran from building a nuclear missile and President Trump withdrawing from the agreement really mucked it up. That is the absolute truth that colossal mistake by the Trump administration triggered Iran to enrich uranium to sixty to eighty percent grade and thus raised the issue of how close is Iran to possessing a nuclear missile! The Trump administration needs to be permanently tagged with this historic bad decision and it needs to be brought up often whenever public discussion turns to Iran and national security matters! This article describes the Iran nuclear deal as "The Obama team allowed enrichment and let Iran keep the infrastructure that could be used to reach weapons-grade when Iran felt the time was right. Mr. Obama backtracked to let Iran operate at Fordow and Arak and keep 5000 centrifuges at Natanz. He gave up on "anytime, anywhere " inspections. Iran didn't even have to detail all of its past nuclear activities" . This is a bunch of half-truths the Iran Nuclear deal was never meant to permanently stop Iran from getting a nuclear bomb it was meant to stop this outcome from happening for fifteen years it was always understood that at the end of this period another deal would need to be negotiated it was a responsible and an effective plan that would have worked if Trump didn't withdraw from it. Let's examine the truth of the deal! Iran had to get rid of ninety-eight percent of their enriched uranium which they complied with mostly by shipping it out of the country. Iran had to dismantle a large number of centrifuges where the taken out of use centrifuges were under 24/7 surveillance by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). There was only one facility, Natanz, would be permitted to enrich uranium and only to 3 to 4 % grade and you need 90% grade to make a nuclear bomb this was permitted so Iran could produce fuel for its commercial and research reactors and the agreement authorized IAEA inspectors to have daily access to the Natanz facility if they wished! The deal prohibited the Fordow facility from being permitted to enrich uranium and the deal mandated that the nuclear reactor at Arak had to be physically modified so that it could no longer produce weapon grade plutonium. The deal authorized timely access to IAEA inspectors to all of Iran's nuclear facilities and put a duty on Iran to inform the IAEA of any expansion of its nuclear program. The deal was widely believed amongst the international community to be working to be blocking Iran from being able to acquire a nuclear weapon. The reality is that candidate Donald Trump used criticism and condemnation of the Iran nuclear deal to get a political edge over candidate Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election his position was never in the best interest of the American people whose interests were to insure Iran didn't acquire a nuclear bomb for fifteen years.

The article goes on to say that the $30 billion in sanctions relief to Iran from the deal precipitated the Iran Quds force leader going to Russia and implied it caused Vladimir Putin to get into the Syrian Civil war on the side of Bashar Assad. That is a bunch of baloney knowledgeable people about the Syrian War know that the reason Putin brought Russia into the war was because Bashar Assad's forces were losing the war in 2015 Syrian rebels were succeeding on the battlefield and if it wasn't for Russian air power they would have won the war back then and Putin who sees Russia as a great world power could not allow America to have that success which would increase its influence in the world! The article condemns Iran for enriching uranium and not cooperating with the IAEA after the Trump administration withdrew from the deal in 2018 but that is why it was so colossally wrong for Trump to withdraw because after this withdraw it was just for Iran to consider the deal null and void and placed no duty on Iran to comply with the terms of the deal!

The article tries to imply that Iran was responsible for the October 7th 2023 barbaric attack of Hamas on Israel which killed over 1100 Israelis. The public evidence indicates that the Hamas leadership who were and are really bad actors created and implemented the plan themselves, the Iran government was not behind the plan they likely knew about it but knowledge about something doesn't make one responsible. The article criticizes people that criticize President Trump for engaging in the current Iran war when they say this will actually result in Iran taking the steps to acquire a nuclear missile. The author of this article says that Iran all along that is for years was doing this implementing a plan to build a bomb; that analysis is speculative. The more cogent analysis with the facts is that the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei was not going take the steps necessary to actually build a nuclear bomb; one because the character of Alli Khamenei was that he was a very practical person if he built one Western Intelligence would discover it and it would definitely bring on a bombing of Iran to destroy it he wouldn't have wanted that harm plus if he wanted to build a nuclear bomb he had plenty of opportunity why enter into the 2015 nuclear deal if he wanted to, that deal set such a plan back dramatically. With this war Trump has caused Mojtaba Khamenei to be installed as the new Supreme Leader many reports are that this new leader is more hard line than the prior Supreme leader and believes it is right for Iran to acquire a nuclear bomb; so Donald Trump has now likely caused America to have to go to war against Iran sometime in the future to destroy Iran's nuclear weapons that Mojtaba Khamenei will acquire to stop a catastrophic nuclear war befalling the world involving Israel and Iran and God knows who because of nuclear weapon fallout - so the truth is that Trump likely increased the nuclear weapons threat from Iran!

The article criticizes critics of the war who complain look what you have done Donald Trump you now solidified the IRGC in power in Iran; the author says that this has been the case since 2005 to 2013 the Presidency of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The author is wrong here up until this war Iran was truly a theocracy Ali Khamenei was a strong leader he could implement his will politically with no significant authority challenge. Now Iran is a military dictatorship, the IRGC's economic, military and thus political power will be unassailable for the indefinite future, the Supreme Leader will have power politically and culturally but it will be limited, in Iranian elections Presidents will be permitted to be helpful to the people but they won't be permitted to challenge the power of the IRGC there will be no investigations and prosecutions there. This is an extremely bad development for the Iranian people and the world because with a theocracy Iran could have gotten a good religious leader like the Iraq Ayatollah Ali Sistani who lead his people to a true democracy but that hope is now permanently dead!


The lesson this article raises and it was alluded to in the resignation letter of Joe Kent who resigned as Director of the National Counter-Terrorism Center this week which is that this current Iran War and the Iraq War from 2003 to 2011 to a significant degree was caused by the Israeli lobby. This type of talk in America is considered not politically correct often referencing the power of Jewish people in our Democracy is labeled as discriminatory or anti-Semitic; this is gravely wrong the truth of the matter is the Jewish people in America are wealthy people and they deploy their money in a major way in America's elections and in that essence they have as their priority advancing the interest of the Israeli government which should be accurately described as not to bring about a fair two state solution for the Palestinian people, the Israeli government wants all the land in question for the state of Israel! One glaring example of Jewish America influence was Sheldon Adelson, the casino magnate who was Jewish and known to be very pro the Israel government, who was a key financial backer of Donald Trump's 2016 campaign and whose funding made a big difference in that close race!

Numerous Democrat Senators and Democrat House members who have access to the classified intelligence of the American government have publicly said that America was not facing an imminent threat from a nuclear bomb from Iran or from a ballistic missile attack from Iran in the current Iran war; these Senators and House members would know if Iran was within six months from actually building a nuclear missile which reasonably could support a nuclear imminent threat contention from Iran. This is of World Trade Center importance this fact that there was no imminent threat because this means this war by the Trump administration is illegal and immoral. Now why aren't Republican Senate and House members standing up for the rule of law here and saying that the War Powers Act of the U.S. Constitution is being violated here! The reason for the Congressional Republicans failure in their duty here is that this war against Iran benefits Israel, Iran is the key enemy of Israel it has and will in the future militarily attack and kill Israelis and this war by weakening Iran protects Israel. Congressional Republicans know they need the campaign money of the Jewish/ Pro-Israel lobby; individual Congressional Republicans knew and know if they blocked or block this Trump war against Iran with its one thousand plus sorties or bombing missions against Iran to date, campaign money from the Jewish lobby would dry up and their opponents would receive financial help from the Jewish Lobby - its about the power of the Jewish lobby that is the truth the American people need to recognizes so actions can be taken to stop this undue influence!

On the Iraq war it is common knowledge that the U.S. government cooked the intelligence that existed prior to the war that was used to justify the war and cooked it big-time; saying things like that Iraq was acquiring yellow cake which is the substance from which uranium is created and that Iraq was purchasing rocket engines which could be used in missiles to attack Israel, etc.. This false intelligence made a huge difference for it was presented at the United Nations and to the American people and ginned up support amongst the American people and our international allies to support and participate in the Iraq war. I don't think George W. Bush was behind this fraud carried out on the American people and the world. There was major dynamics going on with President Bush at the time; President George H.W. Bush, President Bush's father, was widely condemned for during the First Gulf War for stopping at the border of Iraq and not going in and removing the evil Saddam Hussein even though H.W. was just following international law at that time the U.N. mandate did not authorize going into Iraq; plus Saddam Hussein was not cooperating with the international inspectors he wasn't allowing Iraqi scientist to be interviewed and wasn't allowing access to suspicious sites in Iraq President Bush needed to address this worry. The obvious and indefensible breach of duty here is why didn't members of Congress uncover this fraud they had access to the classified files they had the power of subpoena; it is rather inexplicable how the U.S. Congress could have allowed the U.S. intelligence community to perpetuate this massive fraud on the American people. A reasonably prudent and knowledgeable American would have to conclude what happened here is that Iraq was perceived as a huge threat against Israel during the first Gulf War Saddam Hussein's army fired numerous SCUD missiles toward Israel and his rhetoric was extremely anti the state of Israel and Saddam Hussein even though he didn't possess in 2003 weapons of mass destruction he was hell bent on getting them which his track record indicated would pose a real danger to Israel of being hit with such. So likely what happened is America's intelligence concocted all this intelligence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction to get rid of this lingering Saddam Hussein threat and nobody in Congress wanted to dig to determine if it was the truth nobody wanted to start waving red flags questioning the truth because they would face the wrath of the Jewish Lobby for the same reasons as stated in the prior paragraph Jewish Lobby money would dry up for them and be provided to their opponents campaigns; and what was the result of this fraud and failure of Congress to uncover it and the ensuing Iraq war, 4400 American deaths and 32000 America casualties!



It is not only the money and the resulting undue influence from the Israel lobby that should awaken the American people to action here but the money from various special interests that flows into America's elections and is responsible for so much bad public policy! One example is all this money from the crypto currency industry this is such a volatile asset class there is no inherent value in these assets it is all subjective value determination existing here at the core and one day foreseeably these assets could completely tank in value good public policy clearly calls for the banning of new crypto currencies and when the outstanding ones dramatically drop in value for a significant period of time the Treasury should buy the outstanding float and eliminate it and one day the American people can be permanently done with this danger to the economy! The American people need to eliminate three causes of dysfunction in our government which opens up out government to this undue influence by amending the constitution in the following manner. Have term limits for members of Congress two terms for Senators and five terms for House members so members of Congress wouldn't be so obsessed with winning the next election, draw Congressional districts by algorithms based on geometric considerations based on where voters live trying to make district borders in equal length as much as possible this should dramatically cut down on so many political extremists in Congress because these politicians don't have to consider constituents with opposite political views! Thirdly, change the U.S. Constitution to say that no one has the right to contribute money into elections and that the Congress and the President shall enact laws that block an individual and groups of individuals from contributing large amounts of money into elections and campaign finance laws should be such as to stop an individual, groups of individuals, businesses and other organizations from having an undue influence in elections through the contribution of money in elections!

I didn't bother trudging through you whole long rant, after finding 3 significant errors in the first paragraph alone.

1. Vietnam War did NOT have a moral justification. No, communism was NOT a big danger, or any danger at all. After 1975 when the North Vietnamese took over the whole country was there any spread ? No.
Any "dominos" ? No.
Unlike the current Iran War, no Vietnamese ever attacked us, threatened us, or even said an unkind word, Whole thing was a ludicrous catastrophe, engineered by idiots.

2. The Iran War is neither unlawful nor immoral war. There is no law that contradict what us happening in the Iran War. It is 100% moral in defense of the USA (and the world) against the same Koranic, Islamic, imperialist lunatics trying to establish a global caliphate, as the marauding Muslims who conquered everything from Spain to India + North Africa, killing 270 Million people along the way, over 1400 years.
(except these loons are developing nuclear weapons)

3. The UK Ambassador told Maria Bartiromo that the UK is in ful step with President Trump in the Iran War, allowing Trump to use England to have Air Force bases _ the Brits have flown more "sorties" against Iran now than any time since the Falklands War.

Strike 3.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Whether the Iran War is moral or legal is up for argument: it is not a settled issue.

Suppressing U production is a good thing.

Going one step farther than that can produced negatives far outweighing positives.

We cannot 'defeat' the Iranians on the ground: impossible short of invading, and that will not be permitted by Americans.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Deflect much. But Hillary!!

Mad King Donald has started WWIII and you're bleating about Hillary Clinton. Talking about being deranged.

Now Trump is talking about pulling out of Iran and leaving the mess he's made to NATO to clean up.

Trump has turned into exactly the kind of crazy of dictator you were warned about. Invading other nations, and stealing their oil.

Where does this insanity end.

Iran doesn't want WWIII, Dragonlady...Iran wants Armageddon! The end of days. Do you grasp what that means?

 

[Man With A Plan]

Whether the Iran War is moral or legal is up for argument: it is not a settled issue.

Suppressing U production is a good thing.

Going one step farther than that can produced negatives far outweighing positives.

We cannot 'defeat' the Iranians on the ground: impossible short of invading, and that will not be permitted by Americans.

We can positively "defeat" the Iranians on the ground! We're doing it right now! That regime can't survive what Trump is doing to them. It won't be done with boots on the ground. It will be done with the people no longer being willing to suffer under IRGC rule! The Iranian people will defeat this regime and when it happens it will happen almost overnight.

 

[jacksonlamb]

We can positively "defeat" the Iranians on the ground! We're doing it right now! That regime can't survive what Trump is doing to them. It won't be done with boots on the ground. It will be done with the people no longer being willing to suffer under IRGC rule! The Iranian people will defeat this regime and when it happens it will happen almost overnight.

No, we are not. No, will not. Withdraw and claim victory. No, it is not going to happen.

 

[Dragonlady]

Iran doesn't want WWIII, Dragonlady...Iran wants Armageddon! The end of days. Do you grasp what that means?

Do you grasp that this is ridiculous and complete bullshit?

 

[Man With A Plan]

Do you grasp that this is ridiculous and complete bullshit?

They want a nuke. They want to destroy the West. They believe that if they die killing infidels they go straight to "paradise"! What part of that don't you understand?

 

[Dragonlady]

They want a nuke. They want to destroy the West. They believe that if they die killing infidels they go straight to "paradise"! What part of that don't you understand?

What part of that is not what was happening do you not understanding. Iran did NONE of what you claim they were doing. They haven't built nukes. They haven't attacked the USA, or Europe. And you're stupid for believing the lies Trump told you.

The Iranians signed an agreement not to build nukes, and they were in compliance with that agreement. They turned over all of their nuclear materials when they signed the agreement. It was to run until 2025.

Trump tore up that Agreement in 2017, placed punishing sanctions on Iran and then assassinated their Defense Minister, trying to start a war with Iran. The Ayatollahs refused to take the bait, saying Trump would be gone soon.

Now that Trump has been re-elected, he just flat out started a war with Iran for no reason. Iran is defending itself from an illegal attack.

What part of that do YOU not understand???

 

[jacksonlamb]

Iran WILL nuke Israel and the US if it gets a chance.

If anyone tells you that is not so, that person does not have your welfare at their concern.

 

[Man With A Plan]

What part of that is not what was happening do you not understanding. Iran did NONE of what you claim they were doing. They haven't built nukes. They haven't attacked the USA, or Europe. And you're stupid for believing the lies Trump told you.

The Iranians signed an agreement not to build nukes, and they were in compliance with that agreement. They turned over all of their nuclear materials when they signed the agreement. It was to run until 2025.

Trump tore up that Agreement in 2017, placed punishing sanctions on Iran and then assassinated their Defense Minister, trying to start a war with Iran. The Ayatollahs refused to take the bait, saying Trump would be gone soon.

Now that Trump has been re-elected, he just flat out started a war with Iran for no reason. Iran is defending itself from an illegal attack.

What part of that do YOU not understand???

Every time I have a conversation with you I come away convinced that you're one of the most uniformed people I've ever met. This regime has been attacking the USA for over 40 years. The agreement that Obama signed with them was a joke. They never stopped trying to build a nuclear weapon. They never stopped enriching uranium. They never stopped developing long range ballistic missiles. None of those things have anything to do with defense.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Every time I have a conversation with you I come away convinced that you're one of the most uniformed people I've ever met. This regime has been attacking the USA for over 40 years. The agreement that Obama signed with them was a joke. They never stopped trying to build a nuclear weapon. They never stopped enriching uranium. They never stopped developing long range ballistic missiles. None of those things have anything to do with defense.

But we don't have the ability to invade the country and carry that to victory.

So we commit to bombing when necessary, and, at the times we do that, the Israelis kill as many of the leaders as possible.

 

[Man With A Plan]

But we don't have the ability to invade the country and carry that to victory.

So we commit to bombing when necessary, and, at the times we do that, the Israelis kill as many of the leaders as possible.

I know you're not that bright, Jackson so I'll try to explain this in as simple a way as I can! The US has total control of the seas around Iran and the air space over it. The only thing the Iranians still have is a sizable army...but that army is powerless BECAUSE we don't have boots on the ground for them to attack! They can't sell their oil. They're about to run out of storage space to store that oil which means they're going to have to shut down oil production...something that will decimate their oil production for decades to come! They don't have water in large parts of the country now. Their currency is worthless. They only have electricity for about 12 hours a day. Millions of Iranians are out of work. It's a "zombie" nation at this point! If the IRGC cared about the Iranian people they would have already left the country. Even if they don't it's a matter of weeks before everything simply collapses.

 

[jacksonlamb]

ManwithaPlan, you don't understand Iran, whereas I do.

We cannot beat them in a regular war if we do not invade them.

We will not invade them.

Hence, we will not win the war.

A negotiated truce is the best we can do, and we know what to do with the Israels when they start building a nuke.

 

[Man With A Plan]

ManwithaPlan, you don't understand Iran, whereas I do.

We cannot beat them in a regular war if we do not invade them.

We will not invade them.

Hence, we will not win the war.

A negotiated truce is the best we can do, and we know what to do with the Israels when they start building a nuke.

Care to explain how you keep your regime functioning if can't generate any revenue...can't provide water to it's people...can't provide electricity...have rampant food inflation and it's only going to get worse as the blockade drags on? We've already beaten Iran.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Care to explain how you keep your regime functioning if can't generate any revenue...can't provide water to it's people...can't provide electricity...have rampant food inflation and it's only going to get worse as the blockade drags on? We've already beaten Iran.

They are getting some revenue, and Russia and China are aiding them as they are able.

We have beaten nothing except your brain into a froth of seething rage.

 

[Man With A Plan]

They are getting some revenue, and Russia and China are aiding them as they are able.

We have beaten nothing except your brain into a froth of seething rage.

Russia and China aren't doing anything for them. Putin has his own problems. China just wants the Straights of Hormuz open...they liked the cheap oil from Iran but they're not going to get involved in a war. It's not in their interest.

 

[protectionist]

Whether the Iran War is moral or legal is up for argument: it is not a settled issue.

Suppressing U production is a good thing.

Going one step farther than that can produced negatives far outweighing positives.

We cannot 'defeat' the Iranians on the ground: impossible short of invading, and that will not be permitted by Americans.

American may find they have "permitted" their own annihilation.

 

[jacksonlamb]

American may find they have "permitted" their own annihilation.

Hardly. Russian, Iran, and China will not 'annihilate' the US.