Prop. 8 Equals Homophobia...Let's Be Honest.

[Procrustes Stretched]

Come on folks. We're mostly adults here. Let us speak plainly, honestly, truthfully and openly.

Agreed: Most of the objections against Gay Marriages are based on homophobia and hate, dislike, fear and/or disgust of homosexuals.

I like this article in the NYT:

Boies, wearing a flag pin on his lapel, said that the state of California is engaged in "gay bashing." He spoke intensely about the gay and lesbian plaintiffs, who offered poignant testimony about their loving relationships and about wanting to be liked and accepted:

"These people are people you would want your child to grow up and marry. You can be a child molester and get married. You can be a wife beater and get married. You can be a child-support scofflaw and get married. The importance of that emotional relationship is so vital to the pursuit of happiness that even prison felons, who aren't really procreating, have a right to get married."

Noting the rabid effort being made to restrict marriage to only those who can protect its sanctity, a chuckling Olson reeled off some names: "Tiger Woods, Eliot Spitzer, Mark Sanford, Kobe Bryant, Bill Clinton."

link to article...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Come on folks. We're mostly adults here. Let us speak plainly, honestly, truthfully and openly.
...:

"Tiger Woods, Eliot Spitzer, Mark Sanford, Kobe Bryant, Bill Clinton."

Let us be honest. Why the fear to admit truth?

As the sun set on the Bay Bridge behind him and the curtain dropped on the first week of the dramatic trial to challenge the constitutionality of the state's ban on same-sex marriage, Olson reviewed the case: "We're going to explain why allowing same-sex couples to have that same right that the rest of us have is not going to hurt heterosexual marriages. It has no point at all except some people don't want to recognize gays and lesbians as normal, as human beings."

 

[Wry Catcher]

Where are the social conservatives? Too embarassed to acknowledge, even to themselves, that hate and fear motivates their efforts to deny a basic human right to others?
Nah, that would require introspection.

 

[ihopehefails]

I'm not afraid that much. I do admit that I find gay marriage immoral based on my own personal beliefs. Some people find it immoral based on their chrisitan beliefs. This is probably the main factor behind this but why is it that liberals can get on a soap box and condemn the entire world based on their morality yet christians do not?

I'm not saying that either side has the moral highground because that is a matter of your personal choice about your own code of ethics but why is it that liberals feel that they have the right to judge others by their moral code yet deny others to do the same.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Where are the social conservatives? Too embarassed to acknowledge, even to themselves, that hate and fear motivates their efforts to deny a basic human right to others?
Nah, that would require introspection.

Where are the people who say they want honesty in public debate?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

First, I must admit to it being an effort to take you seriously only because of how I interpret your screen name. The effort is small, but I remain leery.

I'm not afraid that much. I do admit that I find gay marriage immoral based on my own personal beliefs. Some people find it immoral based on their chrisitan beliefs. This is probably the main factor behind this but why is it that liberals can get on a soap box and condemn the entire world based on their morality yet christians do not?

The support for gay marriage actually crosses ideological divides.

Most people 'condemn' but true liberals very rarely do. Christians condemn as a matter of dogma.

If you can I ask you to name me one prominent liberal who condemns the entire world. Based on anything they believe.

I'm not saying that either side has the moral highground because that is a matter of your personal choice about your own code of ethics but why is it that liberals feel that they have the right to judge others by their moral code yet deny others to do the same.

All people judge. I find nothing wrong with that. I do find fault with blind and premature judgement.

Again, please if you can...give me the name of a prominent liberal who does the above.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm not afraid that much. I do admit that I find gay marriage immoral based on my own personal beliefs. Some people find it immoral based on their chrisitan beliefs. This is probably the main factor behind this but why is it that liberals can get on a soap box and condemn the entire world based on their morality yet christians do not?

I'm not saying that either side has the moral highground because that is a matter of your personal choice about your own code of ethics but why is it that liberals feel that they have the right to judge others by their moral code yet deny others to do the same.

I speak only for myself, the moral code relevent in this discussion is defined by the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. You may hold whatever bias and moral outrage you like, but to move beyond that and violate the rights of others is reprehensible and makes you more Taliban then American.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Get the government out of marriage altogether and problem solved.

 

[Modbert]

Get the government out of marriage altogether and problem solved.

As much as I would love that, I doubt the religious wingnuts would like their unions to be considered equal even legally with the Homosexuals.

And when I say religious wingnuts, I mean the highly religious people who take things way too far.

Again, we agree for the second time in one day. Make all current marriages civil unions, everyone has equal rights when it comes to civil unions. If people want to get married, they can go to the church.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Come on folks. We're mostly adults here. Let us speak plainly, honestly, truthfully and openly.

Agreed: Most of the objections against Gay Marriages are based on homophobia and hate, dislike, fear and/or disgust of homosexuals.

I like this article in the NYT:

Boies, wearing a flag pin on his lapel, said that the state of California is engaged in "gay bashing." He spoke intensely about the gay and lesbian plaintiffs, who offered poignant testimony about their loving relationships and about wanting to be liked and accepted:

"These people are people you would want your child to grow up and marry. You can be a child molester and get married. You can be a wife beater and get married. You can be a child-support scofflaw and get married. The importance of that emotional relationship is so vital to the pursuit of happiness that even prison felons, who aren't really procreating, have a right to get married."

Noting the rabid effort being made to restrict marriage to only those who can protect its sanctity, a chuckling Olson reeled off some names: "Tiger Woods, Eliot Spitzer, Mark Sanford, Kobe Bryant, Bill Clinton."

link to article...

You want plain and honest? OK.....

Nobody really gives a flying fuck about your stupid homo probs...there's a WHOLE LOT MORE in the world to worry about than whether or not two queers can marry each other....most people would really prefer you just shut up with the ENDLESS whining.....

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Get the government out of marriage altogether and problem solved.

Government tax breaks for married couples?

Government recognition of marriages for enforcement of contractural agreements in courts?

Government has a legitimate role in the civil/governmental aspects of marriage contracts.

Simple answers? look up 'simple'+'mencken'+ 'quotations'

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You want plain and honest? OK.....

Nobody really gives a flying fuck about your stupid homo probs...

I have no homo prob...stupid or not. and thanks for the honesty. I could do with a little less anger and frustration on your part, but hey...it's a free country.

...there's a WHOLE LOT MORE in the world to worry about than whether or not two queers can marry each other....most people would really prefer you just shut up with the ENDLESS whining.....

I'm not whining. The homo marriage thing is in the highest courts in the land.

Prop. 8 was put forth by gay bashers...not the gays.

If you do not care...why struggle to stop gays from marrying. Does a gay marriage threaten youN If notm..why fight them?

If you do not care...why the anger when other people and their friends fight for theor rights?

Do you hate it when people demand to be treated equal?

 

[Yurt]

smellknell....

you really do a great disservice to gay rights. people like you do not bring anything at all to the table and in fact drive a wedge between those who have not made up their mind. i really hate it when ignorant ass's like you simply attack the other position as "phobic"....

great, so you're low tax phobic, you're this and that phobic....you're an idiot to simplify the gay rights issues. there are many people who have no problem if someone wants to have gay sex, however, they believe (as obama believes) that gays should not be allowed the title of marriage. has nothing to do with phobia.

marriage is a contract in the US. a secular contract. no religious test is required. as such, if the relationship of the parties is legal, in that...you can't have sex with your sister and then go get a marriage license, but you can have sex with someone of the same gender....there should be absolutely no bar to a marriage license, as, IMO, it violates US law on numerous levels

 

[Darkwind]

Agreed: Most of the objections against Gay Marriages are based on homophobia and hate, dislike, fear and/or disgust of homosexuals.

No, it is not agreed. Come on. If you are the adult you claim to be, then you have to acknowledge that people can have values, principles and morals without a label of fearing someone or something.

So, nice try. But your premise fails before it even begins to be discussed.

Why is it you hetrophobes feel you have to redefine what others have said? Is it because you cannot come up with valid and thoughtful counter arguments?

 

[Gunny]

Where are the social conservatives? Too embarassed to acknowledge, even to themselves, that hate and fear motivates their efforts to deny a basic human right to others?
Nah, that would require introspection.

There is no basic human right.

There is no basic human right to marriage.

Gays currently have the exact same Constitutional Rights everyone else has, and more protection under the law white heterosexuals.

You extremist leftwingnuts are just too stupid to be embarrassed; otherwise, you would the way you misuse the English language to further your dopey causes.

 

[Avatar4321]

Cant have an honest conversation with a person who starts off completely deluding himself as to what the truth is.

Let's be honest. You don't have a clue what is so important about the family. Nor do you understand the simple fact that men and women are different and were created differently for the specific reason to join together and create life. You are so arogant you conclude that anyone who disagrees with you must be afraid or stupid or insane because no one could possibly have a rational explanation for opposing you.

And let's be even more honest. The gay marriage movement can't win on the merits of the argument so they have to resort belittling and marginalizing the opposition with insults. "You're just homophobes because you disagree with my position" That's the extent of your argument. I can't imagine why you are losing with that one.

 

[Avatar4321]

Prop. 8 was put forth by gay bashers...not the gays.

Yeah. Funny how that is. People wanting to vote on their laws. You'd think this was a Democratic Republic or something. Notice that the gays had no problem forcing their will on the people. No voting for them. But, of course, it's the people who are voting for a particular law that are the real problem.

Why don't you just come out and say it. Let's be honest after all. What you are really pissed off about is that the people had a say in the matter and didnt like you forcing it down their throats.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

First, I must admit to it being an effort to take you seriously only because of how I interpret your screen name. The effort is small, but I remain leery.

I'm not afraid that much. I do admit that I find gay marriage immoral based on my own personal beliefs. Some people find it immoral based on their chrisitan beliefs. This is probably the main factor behind this but why is it that liberals can get on a soap box and condemn the entire world based on their morality yet christians do not?

The support for gay marriage actually crosses ideological divides.

Most people 'condemn' but true liberals very rarely do. Christians condemn as a matter of dogma.

If you can I ask you to name me one prominent liberal who condemns the entire world. Based on anything they believe.

I'm not saying that either side has the moral highground because that is a matter of your personal choice about your own code of ethics but why is it that liberals feel that they have the right to judge others by their moral code yet deny others to do the same.

All people judge. I find nothing wrong with that. I do find fault with blind and premature judgement.

Again, please if you can...give me the name of a prominent liberal who does the above.

The opposition to Gay Marriage crosses those same lines dumb ass. Obama himself is opposed to Gay Marriage.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not afraid that much. I do admit that I find gay marriage immoral based on my own personal beliefs. Some people find it immoral based on their chrisitan beliefs. This is probably the main factor behind this but why is it that liberals can get on a soap box and condemn the entire world based on their morality yet christians do not?

I'm not saying that either side has the moral highground because that is a matter of your personal choice about your own code of ethics but why is it that liberals feel that they have the right to judge others by their moral code yet deny others to do the same.

I speak only for myself, the moral code relevent in this discussion is defined by the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. You may hold whatever bias and moral outrage you like, but to move beyond that and violate the rights of others is reprehensible and makes you more Taliban then American.

Gays have lost no rights at all. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Pretty simple concept.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You want plain and honest? OK.....

Nobody really gives a flying fuck about your stupid homo probs...

I have no homo prob...stupid or not. and thanks for the honesty. I could do with a little less anger and frustration on your part, but hey...it's a free country.

...there's a WHOLE LOT MORE in the world to worry about than whether or not two queers can marry each other....most people would really prefer you just shut up with the ENDLESS whining.....

I'm not whining. The homo marriage thing is in the highest courts in the land.

Prop. 8 was put forth by gay bashers...not the gays.

If you do not care...why struggle to stop gays from marrying. Does a gay marriage threaten youN If notm..why fight them?

If you do not care...why the anger when other people and their friends fight for theor rights?

Do you hate it when people demand to be treated equal?

I find it quite funny that you liberals always seem to find hate and anger with anyone who disagrees with your fucked positions on a number of social issues. Instead of understanding that there are differences of opinions and not everyone is in lockstep like you progressives, you and those like you just engage in personal smear tactics and the politics of destruction....oh and the incessant whine "Why is everyone picking on me!!!!!!!!!!"
Whacko liberals personified in song....
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaGKxAgCguU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaGKxAgCguU[/ame]