Paper Money VS Gold Coin

[ihopehefails]

The big difference between paper fiat money and gold or any other valuable metal used for currency is that gold and its perceived value exist naturally or in the natural realm while the value of fiat money is created by government mandate hence the slogan on every dollar "payable for all debts private and public". Gold coins do not need this. Its value exist by the social agreement between individuals within society. This makes the value of gold something that is freely derived at within the mind of every person in society and like so many other things that exist within the natural realm it exist without the government.

Rights are like this as well. Natural and inalienable rights exist freely much like the value of gold does while rights the government gives us depend on its existence. The perversed thinking in our modern world is that the value of gold is assigned by the government and is no different that the assigned value of fiat money.

There is no distinction between the natural realm and public realm anymore.

 

[rightwinger]

What the hell value does gold have? It is just a metal. If it were not for the hoarding and speculation it would be just a decorative metal

 

[Baruch Menachem]

That value in the natural relm is kind of spooky, as it is easily manipulable. Also, economic activity is tied to the location where you find the stuff, and how hard it is to find.

Between 1848 and 1903, while there were gold strikes in Austrialia and the US, none of them were all that impressive, compared with what happened in CA. And the CA gold strike really wasn't such a much. So from the period 1861-1903 the world suffered declining prices all over, because the amount of gold found from year to year wasn't enough to maintain price levels. Some years they found a lot, and there was inflation. Some years were very dry, and prices crashed, and those who had loans out suffered.
After 1903 the english discovered the cyanide process to get gold from ore. This made the gold fields in South Africa and Russia not only workable, but it made them the biggest producers. So from 1903 onward, the gold supply was determined by the internal politics of these two countries.

So do you want the US money supply to be determined by a conference between South Africa and Russia?

Think about it for a moment.

 

[ihopehefails]

What the hell value does gold have? It is just a metal. If it were not for the hoarding and speculation it would be just a decorative metal

The hoarding and speculating that you refer to indicates that there is some value being created within the free interactions of the people. Whether you think it is worth anything or not. You have the right to declare it worthless in your own mind but won't because you know that others think it is value.

Its value exist without the aid of government but the point I was making is that rights in the natural sphere, like the value of gold, also exist in the same way and that is it does not need government to assign them to people.

 

[ihopehefails]

That value in the natural relm is kind of spooky, as it is easily manipulable. Also, economic activity is tied to the location where you find the stuff, and how hard it is to find.

Between 1848 and 1903, while there were gold strikes in Austrialia and the US, none of them were all that impressive, compared with what happened in CA. And the CA gold strike really wasn't such a much. So from the period 1861-1903 the world suffered declining prices all over, because the amount of gold found from year to year wasn't enough to maintain price levels. Some years they found a lot, and there was inflation. Some years were very dry, and prices crashed, and those who had loans out suffered.
After 1903 the english discovered the cyanide process to get gold from ore. This made the gold fields in South Africa and Russia not only workable, but it made them the biggest producers. So from 1903 onward, the gold supply was determined by the internal politics of these two countries.

So do you want the US money supply to be determined by a conference between South Africa and Russia?

Think about it for a moment.

I wasn't aging economics as much as I was arguing how the natural realm of our existence works in regards to our rights. No one needs the government to speak or even excercise all powers available to them. These things we can do freely do not need the government to exist.

 

[ihopehefails]

That value in the natural relm is kind of spooky, as it is easily manipulable. Also, economic activity is tied to the location where you find the stuff, and how hard it is to find.

Between 1848 and 1903, while there were gold strikes in Austrialia and the US, none of them were all that impressive, compared with what happened in CA. And the CA gold strike really wasn't such a much. So from the period 1861-1903 the world suffered declining prices all over, because the amount of gold found from year to year wasn't enough to maintain price levels. Some years they found a lot, and there was inflation. Some years were very dry, and prices crashed, and those who had loans out suffered.
After 1903 the english discovered the cyanide process to get gold from ore. This made the gold fields in South Africa and Russia not only workable, but it made them the biggest producers. So from 1903 onward, the gold supply was determined by the internal politics of these two countries.

So do you want the US money supply to be determined by a conference between South Africa and Russia?

Think about it for a moment.

I don't think it would be different than anything else. I don't think it would hurt anything but my point wasn't about economics.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

To repeal the legal tender laws, to prohibit taxation on certain coins and bullion, and to repeal superfluous sections related to coinage.

H.R. 4248: Free Competition in Currency Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us)

Let's at least allow competition between useless paper dollars and gold and silver.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What the hell value does gold have? It is just a metal. If it were not for the hoarding and speculation it would be just a decorative metal

What value does a green piece of paper with a dead President on it have? None, except for the promise of the government, whose promises aren't worth the paper their currency is printed on.

 

[rightwinger]

What the hell value does gold have? It is just a metal. If it were not for the hoarding and speculation it would be just a decorative metal

The hoarding and speculating that you refer to indicates that there is some value being created within the free interactions of the people. Whether you think it is worth anything or not. You have the right to declare it worthless in your own mind but won't because you know that others think it is value.

Its value exist without the aid of government but the point I was making is that rights in the natural sphere, like the value of gold, also exist in the same way and that is it does not need government to assign them to people.

Why does a decorative metal have value while a viable Government does not?
Other than the fact it is hoarded, gold has no intrinsic value. How would our lives be diferent if gold ceased to exist?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That value in the natural relm is kind of spooky, as it is easily manipulable. Also, economic activity is tied to the location where you find the stuff, and how hard it is to find.

Between 1848 and 1903, while there were gold strikes in Austrialia and the US, none of them were all that impressive, compared with what happened in CA. And the CA gold strike really wasn't such a much. So from the period 1861-1903 the world suffered declining prices all over, because the amount of gold found from year to year wasn't enough to maintain price levels. Some years they found a lot, and there was inflation. Some years were very dry, and prices crashed, and those who had loans out suffered.
After 1903 the english discovered the cyanide process to get gold from ore. This made the gold fields in South Africa and Russia not only workable, but it made them the biggest producers. So from 1903 onward, the gold supply was determined by the internal politics of these two countries.

So do you want the US money supply to be determined by a conference between South Africa and Russia?

Think about it for a moment.

The value of paper money is even easier to manipulate. A couple keystrokes on the computer and you can double the money supply.

Maintain price levels? Why would you want to maintain price levels? Prices are subjective and thus must go up and down naturally. We shouldn't try to artificially prop them up. As for prices going down because there wasn't enough gold, that's a good thing. It means the currency was becoming worth more.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What the hell value does gold have? It is just a metal. If it were not for the hoarding and speculation it would be just a decorative metal

The hoarding and speculating that you refer to indicates that there is some value being created within the free interactions of the people. Whether you think it is worth anything or not. You have the right to declare it worthless in your own mind but won't because you know that others think it is value.

Its value exist without the aid of government but the point I was making is that rights in the natural sphere, like the value of gold, also exist in the same way and that is it does not need government to assign them to people.

Why does a decorative metal have value while a viable Government does not?
Other than the fact it is hoarded, gold has no intrinsic value. How would our lives be diferent if gold ceased to exist?

Because people actually value gold. That's all there is to it. It has value because people want it. Why does the governments money not have value? Because you can't trust the government not to manipulate the value of the currency they force us to use, as history has shown over and over and over again. And it's not true at all to say that gold has no intrinsic value outside of hoarding it, it has many practical uses. If gold ceased to exist we'd probably be talking about silver, copper, platinum, etc...

 

[Modbert]

That value in the natural relm is kind of spooky, as it is easily manipulable. Also, economic activity is tied to the location where you find the stuff, and how hard it is to find.

Between 1848 and 1903, while there were gold strikes in Austrialia and the US, none of them were all that impressive, compared with what happened in CA. And the CA gold strike really wasn't such a much. So from the period 1861-1903 the world suffered declining prices all over, because the amount of gold found from year to year wasn't enough to maintain price levels. Some years they found a lot, and there was inflation. Some years were very dry, and prices crashed, and those who had loans out suffered.
After 1903 the english discovered the cyanide process to get gold from ore. This made the gold fields in South Africa and Russia not only workable, but it made them the biggest producers. So from 1903 onward, the gold supply was determined by the internal politics of these two countries.

So do you want the US money supply to be determined by a conference between South Africa and Russia?

Think about it for a moment.

I smell a comedy movie.

 

[rightwinger]

Reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where theives steal millions in gold from Ft Knox. They freeze themselves in suspended animation for a hundred years so they can spend it. When they emerge from their capsules they kill eachother for the gold. One thief makes the other pay his gold for a limited supply of water
The one remaining robber finally flags down a car offering them gold for water. The man from the future laughs at the fact that this man actually though gold was worth something. They had found a way to artificially produce gold

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where theives steal millions in gold from Ft Knox. They freeze themselves in suspended animation for a hundred years so they can spend it. When they emerge from their capsules they kill eachother for the gold. One thief makes the other pay his gold for a limited supply of water
The one remaining robber finally flags down a car offering them gold for water. The man from the future laughs at the fact that this man actually though gold was worth something. They had found a way to artificially produce gold

Then you see the problem with paper money.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

What the hell value does gold have? It is just a metal. If it were not for the hoarding and speculation it would be just a decorative metal

What value does a green piece of paper with a dead President on it have? None, except for the promise of the government, whose promises aren't worth the paper their currency is printed on.

In that case just forward to me all your green with those dead presidents....

 

[rightwinger]

Reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where theives steal millions in gold from Ft Knox. They freeze themselves in suspended animation for a hundred years so they can spend it. When they emerge from their capsules they kill eachother for the gold. One thief makes the other pay his gold for a limited supply of water
The one remaining robber finally flags down a car offering them gold for water. The man from the future laughs at the fact that this man actually though gold was worth something. They had found a way to artificially produce gold

Then you see the problem with paper money.

Paper money?

I'm hoarding guns and ammunition

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What the hell value does gold have? It is just a metal. If it were not for the hoarding and speculation it would be just a decorative metal

What value does a green piece of paper with a dead President on it have? None, except for the promise of the government, whose promises aren't worth the paper their currency is printed on.

In that case just forward to me all your green with those dead presidents....

If I had some I'd at least consider it.

 

[Missourian]

If the paper monetary system were to collapse, gold would also be worthless.

Only bartered items would have any value.

I'm with RW, gold is shiny but it serves no real purpose.

 

[rightwinger]

LOL

And I remember the outrage when my office went to direct deposit of paychecks

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If the paper monetary system were to collapse, gold would also be worthless.

Only bartered items would have any value.

I'm with RW, gold is shiny but it serves no real purpose.

How would gold be worthless? You could use the gold to buy other things that you need.