Problem with the Poor Class

[sealybobo]

Or we could stop the immigration of low skilled workers.

Immigrants remain more likely than U.S.-born workers to work in lower-skill occupations. But the share of immigrants in high-skill, nonmechanical jobs has risen in recent decades

 

[Woodznutz]

The rich rule every county. The key is to set policies that maximize their profits but also produce a big healthy middle class where the masses live. Not a rich ruling class that has it all and a middle class who is suddenly the working poor. No one can save enough for retirement and at the same Tim tell them not to expect their social security.

One thing I would tell someone who’s poo4 is no matter what save 10% of your pay. Or $10 a day. It will add up.

I couldn't afford to retire at 65 so I kept working.

 

[Woodznutz]

Immigrants remain more likely than U.S.-born workers to work in lower-skill occupations. But the share of immigrants in high-skill, nonmechanical jobs has risen in recent decades

That's been true in the building trades for a long time. The work ethic has been successfully educated out of our people. Soon we will be too 'grand' even for high paying tech jobs.

 

[sealybobo]

$30 per hour isn't much....admit it not in today's America. Not close to middle class.

That’s $60,000 a year right? Not a bad living for a single person. I don’t think everyone should make that much. If everyone made that much at least, what would college grads make? I would say $90,000.

Actually, that’s fair.

 

[Woodznutz]

That’s $60,000 a year right? Not a bad living for a single person. I don’t think everyone should make that much. If everyone made that much at least, what would college grads make? I would say $90,000.

Actually, that’s fair.

How much should college grads make who are flipping hamburgers?

 

[sealybobo]

I couldn't afford to retire at 65 so I kept working.

I don’t think you’re alone. That’s why I don’t believe we are doing as well or better than people in 1970. I think most of those people comfotably retired at 65.

I heard when 401ks were introduced they were supposed to be in addition to the pension and social security. Not to replace them.

 

[sealybobo]

How much should college grads make who are flipping hamburgers?

Lady at my works daughter went to work for Taco Bell. No degree. She now runs a bunch of Taco Bell’s. 6 figures.

wehat does mcd pay managers?

 

[sealybobo]

Or we could stop the immigration of low skilled workers.

America’s blue-collar crisis threatens our way of life

The labor shortage is seriously harming the American economy in nearly every industry.

thehill.com

Transportation companies are short 33,000 truckers compared to before the pandemic. Nationwide there’s a 55 percent shortage of plumbers available for work, and electricians are also in seriously short supply. Meanwhile, construction firms can’t find enough qualified workers to complete jobs. The lack of skilled laborers is already being called the “next supply chain disruption.” All told, 77 percent of manufacturers report issues getting and attracting skilled workers.

You know what you do when you can't find skilled workers? You train unskilled workers.

But apparently companies are saying they can't find workers. Low or high skills. So they are going to lobby our government that we need more immigrants, low and high skilled.

I don't think employers are willing to raise wages any more than they have. They'd rather not. I don't want to force them to that just causes inflation. It should happen naturally but it won't. You know what brings up wages? Unions. Like, if Walmart employees or Amazon employees unionized and they started paying better, it would force everyone else to raise their wages because they would have to keep up with their competition. Otherwise they lose "good workers" to those places that pay better.

Amazon workers vote to unionize Staten Island warehouse

The workers have protested warehouse conditions.

www.theverge.com

 

[Woodznutz]

America’s blue-collar crisis threatens our way of life

The labor shortage is seriously harming the American economy in nearly every industry.

thehill.com

Transportation companies are short 33,000 truckers compared to before the pandemic. Nationwide there’s a 55 percent shortage of plumbers available for work, and electricians are also in seriously short supply. Meanwhile, construction firms can’t find enough qualified workers to complete jobs. The lack of skilled laborers is already being called the “next supply chain disruption.” All told, 77 percent of manufacturers report issues getting and attracting skilled workers.

You know what you do when you can't find skilled workers? You train unskilled workers.

But apparently companies are saying they can't find workers. Low or high skills. So they are going to lobby our government that we need more immigrants, low and high skilled.

I don't think employers are willing to raise wages any more than they have. They'd rather not. I don't want to force them to that just causes inflation. It should happen naturally but it won't. You know what brings up wages? Unions. Like, if Walmart employees or Amazon employees unionized and they started paying better, it would force everyone else to raise their wages because they would have to keep up with their competition. Otherwise they lose "good workers" to those places that pay better.

Amazon workers vote to unionize Staten Island warehouse

The workers have protested warehouse conditions.

www.theverge.com

Yes, things are really screwed up.

 

[Donald H]

I think we all agree capitalism requires a poor class. Who else is going to work at subway or mcd?

Capitalism doesn't require a poor class. There's nothing in the capitalist system that says that. Capitalism does require people working at relatively lower paid jobs, and it strives to maintain workers above the poverty line. The US style of capitalism has fallen short of that goal. As you go on to say.

And some people are lazy or have low skills and no company should have to pay them a high wage for what they offer.

My question is how poor? And how rich? I think our system is out of wack. The rich are too rich, the middle class isn’t doing well enough and too many are poor. In the 90s rich people were doing great, the middle class was booming and it was easy to get out of poverty. Maybe america was great in the 90s.

Maybe we need to roll back the bush and trump tax breaks and a lot of bush’s policies. I know Clinton put worker protections in nafta and I know bush removed a lot of those protections.

Essentially I can agree with everything else you say, bearing in mind that my perception of how much the lowest paid workers are paid could be different from yours.

I commend you for getting many of the hot button issues right.

I think you may find something in common with Prof. Richard Wolf and Chris Hedges' utube talks.

 

[Donald H]

Yes, things are really screwed up.

He said it quite well for an initiate didn't he!

 

[Ringo]

The difference in income between the elite and the proletarians has reached record numbers.
In 2020, the directors of the largest firms in the world on average earned 192 times more than their average employees.
In 2021 - 245 times

 

[sealybobo]

Capitalism doesn't require a poor class. There's nothing in the capitalist system that says that. Capitalism does require people working at relatively lower paid jobs, and it strives to maintain workers above the poverty line. The US style of capitalism has fallen short of that goal. As you go on to say.


Essentially I can agree with everything else you say, bearing in mind that my perception of how much the lowest paid workers are paid could be different from yours.

I commend you for getting many of the hot button issues right.

I think you may find something in common with Prof. Richard Wolf and Chris Hedges' utube talks.

Too funny. You said Capitalism doesn't require a poor class but then you said Capitalism does require people working at relatively lower paid jobs. lol

Huh?

 

[Donald H]

Too funny. You said Capitalism doesn't require a poor class but then you said Capitalism does require people working at relatively lower paid jobs. lol

Huh?

Yes, that's what I said. Those who are working for wages at the lowest level should still be above the poverty level. And again, capitalism is supposed to strive for that. Some of the world's capitalism countries come very close, but as you point out yourself, America doesn't.

Some people don't work. Some modern wealthy countries have more people refusing to work than some other countries. There are reasons why that is true too. Can you think of some reasons?

 

[Ralph Norton]

Too funny. You said Capitalism doesn't require a poor class but then you said Capitalism does require people working at relatively lower paid jobs. lol

Huh?

The operative word being "relatively".

 

[Donald H]

The operative word being "relatively".

Yes, but I've given him a fuller explanation that you may approve of?

 

[Woodznutz]

Capitalism requires capital formation in some form. Low wages are not excluded from a capitalistic system, nor do they suggest the failure of capitalism. A capitalist is someone who uses capital to grow wealth.

 

[boedicca]

The rich rule every county. The key is to set policies that maximize their profits but also produce a big healthy middle class where the masses live. Not a rich ruling class that has it all and a middle class who is suddenly the working poor. No one can save enough for retirement and at the same Tim tell them not to expect their social security.

One thing I would tell someone who’s poo4 is no matter what save 10% of your pay. Or $10 a day. It will add up.

Our current Elite are far inferior to a few generations ago. They have no civic virtue and actively work to eliminate the middle class.

And yes, saving a part of one's income is always a good idea - and I'll add to that the avoidance of consumer debt.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Always good to get the dumbass racist outlook...

It's Not About Race; It's About Class

Whites who are born rich deplore and fear all other White people. So anti-racism has snob value, but no moral value.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

We have to do what ALL other modern countries have done, tax the rich and invest in cheap college and training. And stop listening to crap GOP propaganda...

The Present Unpaid System Is an Insult to Intelligence

That still makes college work without pay, which is for no-talent brown-noses who are afraid to grow up. Your different version of the same fail will attract even more of the Diploma Dumbos who graduate now, weakening the economy because those who get a good job can't do a good job.

Instead of the present indentured servitude, individual businesses, sector associations, or unions (especially for trade schools) must recruit those with the most natural talent and pay them a higher salary as students than they can expect to get working a job. To get things started, this investment would substitute for corporate taxes. Even without that, any corporation that offered that bonus on its own would dominate its sector within a few years. It would be equivalent to an NFL team getting the whole first round of draft choices.