Private Gun Sales.

[Shawnee_b]

Pretty hard to lie about being a convicted felon when the NICS will show that you have been convicted

That's the problem Bluz. It needs to be reported to NICS and too many cases it is not. Example, there was a shooter a while back, got his gun legally. He was dishonorably discharged but the AF never reported it. Hunter was other than honorable and was never reported. He lied about that on NICS 4473 and about his drug use, what else did he lie about. Either is enough for ATF to give him a $10K fine and or 10 years in club fed. Fat chance anything will happen.

There are over 10000 firearm laws on the books that are not enforced. "but we need more gun laws" Yeah right,

 

[Shawnee_b]

So you are saying that some stupid Moon Bat judge can deprive us of our Constitutional rights just by farting something out his/her ass?

I don't think so.

Red flag laws for a start.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Constitutional amendments themselves are not laws.

are you saying we dont have to give due proccess and a trial and go straight to execution??

or that slavery is still legal??

I could go on but I hope that shows the mistake youre making with this comment,,

But you forget that slavery is still legal if you happen to be incarcerated.

Like I said there is no black and white in the real world.

So tell me if the federal law that prohibits convicted felons from owning firearms is unconstitutional why hasn't it been brought up through the courts and heard by SCOTUS:?

thats not slavery,, thats being punished for a crime,,,

Ok, but once released from prison, where you paid for your crime, why still punish them?

Actions have consequences.

Why still punish them after paying for your crime? If they are too evil to own guns don't let them out.

Like I said if the law that bars felons from owning guns is found unconstitutional so be it. I would still not sell a gun to a felon in a private sale. Just like I wouldn't hire an accountant convicted of embezzlement to do my books or a convicted child rapist to run a day care.

I suppose you think all those things are OK.

2 and 3 are not protocted rights,, #1 is and if theyve paid their debt they should get their rights back,,

We're going to disagree on that.

So there's no use in continuing.

Like I said if and when that law is struck down as unconstitutional so be it. But until then I have no problem with it.

just dont claim to be a supporter of the 2nd A,

Wrong.

Someone who supports the Second Amendment is someone who follows and acknowledges Second Amendment jurisprudence.

The Second Amendment exists solely in the context of its case law, as determined by the Supreme Court.

A firearm regulatory measure not invalidated by the courts is perfectly lawful and consistent with the Second Amendment.

Indeed, anyone who refuses to accept current Second Amendment jurisprudence cannot be a supporter of the Second Amendment.

In other words, you're full of shit, you know it, we know it, but you want us to all pretend that you're not.

Nahhh.....

If you don’t like current Second Amendment jurisprudence dig up Scalia and argue with him about it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Pretty hard to lie about being a convicted felon when the NICS will show that you have been convicted

That's the problem Bluz. It needs to be reported to NICS and too many cases it is not. Example, there was a shooter a while back, got his gun legally. He was dishonorably discharged but the AF never reported it. Hunter was other than honorable and was never reported. He lied about that on NICS 4473 and about his drug use, what else did he lie about. Either is enough for ATF to give him a $10K fine and or 10 years in club fed. Fat chance anything will happen.

There are over 10000 firearm laws on the books that are not enforced. "but we need more gun laws" Yeah right,

It’s this sort of sophistry which concludes that because people continue to commit murder, statutes prohibiting murder should be repealed.

 

[miketx]

Pretty hard to lie about being a convicted felon when the NICS will show that you have been convicted

That's the problem Bluz. It needs to be reported to NICS and too many cases it is not. Example, there was a shooter a while back, got his gun legally. He was dishonorably discharged but the AF never reported it. Hunter was other than honorable and was never reported. He lied about that on NICS 4473 and about his drug use, what else did he lie about. Either is enough for ATF to give him a $10K fine and or 10 years in club fed. Fat chance anything will happen.

There are over 10000 firearm laws on the books that are not enforced. "but we need more gun laws" Yeah right,

It’s this sort of sophistry which concludes that because people continue to commit murder, statutes prohibiting murder should be repealed.

Perhaps scum like you should stop letting killers out of prison?

 

[freyasman]

Constitutional amendments themselves are not laws.

are you saying we dont have to give due proccess and a trial and go straight to execution??

or that slavery is still legal??

I could go on but I hope that shows the mistake youre making with this comment,,

But you forget that slavery is still legal if you happen to be incarcerated.

Like I said there is no black and white in the real world.

So tell me if the federal law that prohibits convicted felons from owning firearms is unconstitutional why hasn't it been brought up through the courts and heard by SCOTUS:?

thats not slavery,, thats being punished for a crime,,,

Ok, but once released from prison, where you paid for your crime, why still punish them?

Actions have consequences.

Why still punish them after paying for your crime? If they are too evil to own guns don't let them out.

Like I said if the law that bars felons from owning guns is found unconstitutional so be it. I would still not sell a gun to a felon in a private sale. Just like I wouldn't hire an accountant convicted of embezzlement to do my books or a convicted child rapist to run a day care.

I suppose you think all those things are OK.

2 and 3 are not protocted rights,, #1 is and if theyve paid their debt they should get their rights back,,

We're going to disagree on that.

So there's no use in continuing.

Like I said if and when that law is struck down as unconstitutional so be it. But until then I have no problem with it.

just dont claim to be a supporter of the 2nd A,

Wrong.

Someone who supports the Second Amendment is someone who follows and acknowledges Second Amendment jurisprudence.

The Second Amendment exists solely in the context of its case law, as determined by the Supreme Court.

A firearm regulatory measure not invalidated by the courts is perfectly lawful and consistent with the Second Amendment.

Indeed, anyone who refuses to accept current Second Amendment jurisprudence cannot be a supporter of the Second Amendment.

In other words, you're full of shit, you know it, we know it, but you want us to all pretend that you're not.

Nahhh.....

If you don’t like current Second Amendment jurisprudence dig up Scalia and argue with him about it.

Or just keep on doing whatever I want.

You're not going to do anything about it.

 

[westwall]

Constitutional amendments themselves are not laws.

are you saying we dont have to give due proccess and a trial and go straight to execution??

or that slavery is still legal??

I could go on but I hope that shows the mistake youre making with this comment,,

But you forget that slavery is still legal if you happen to be incarcerated.

Like I said there is no black and white in the real world.

So tell me if the federal law that prohibits convicted felons from owning firearms is unconstitutional why hasn't it been brought up through the courts and heard by SCOTUS:?

thats not slavery,, thats being punished for a crime,,,

Ok, but once released from prison, where you paid for your crime, why still punish them?

Actions have consequences.

Why still punish them after paying for your crime? If they are too evil to own guns don't let them out.

Like I said if the law that bars felons from owning guns is found unconstitutional so be it. I would still not sell a gun to a felon in a private sale. Just like I wouldn't hire an accountant convicted of embezzlement to do my books or a convicted child rapist to run a day care.

I suppose you think all those things are OK.

2 and 3 are not protocted rights,, #1 is and if theyve paid their debt they should get their rights back,,

We're going to disagree on that.

So there's no use in continuing.

Like I said if and when that law is struck down as unconstitutional so be it. But until then I have no problem with it.

just dont claim to be a supporter of the 2nd A,

Wrong.

Someone who supports the Second Amendment is someone who follows and acknowledges Second Amendment jurisprudence.

The Second Amendment exists solely in the context of its case law, as determined by the Supreme Court.

A firearm regulatory measure not invalidated by the courts is perfectly lawful and consistent with the Second Amendment.

Indeed, anyone who refuses to accept current Second Amendment jurisprudence cannot be a supporter of the Second Amendment.

In other words, you're full of shit, you know it, we know it, but you want us to all pretend that you're not.

Nahhh.....

If you don’t like current Second Amendment jurisprudence dig up Scalia and argue with him about it.

How about you actually follow what he said.

 

[Blues Man]

I'm curious how many people buy or sell guns from or to a person they don't know.

I have never bought or sold a gun in a private sale. I don't want to buy a gun from someone only to find out it's a piece of junk and I don't want to buy any guns that may have been used in a crime so I only buy from licensed dealers.

I don't want to sell a gun to a person I don't know who may not be responsible or may commit crimes with a gun.

I asked a licenced FFL I hadn't purchaced from before what kind of warranty he offered ... He said "A Taillight Warranty"...as in, when your taillights disappear from view, so does the warranty.

I buy from private individuals, FFLs and online gun stores.

Never had an issue.

Selling is a different story...

I will only sell to unknown individual with a Missouri CCW. Otherwise I'll just sell or trade with folks I know or my local FFL.

I oppose banning private sales.

A ban of private sales is a de facto registration scheme. The first step to confiscation.

Do you oppose background checks for private sales?

Yes, for several reasons.
One is that they then let the government know what you have.
It also costs money.
The government won't let just anyone do a background checks, so you have to go through and pay an FFL.
Background check are pointless since any criminal will just get their weapons illegally.
Federal background check laws are specifically illegal according to the constitution.

The idea of turning the whole country into a supervised institution is insane.
What a normal society does instead is put only dangerous people into supervised institutions.

So you don't care if you sell a gun to a guy who uses it to murder someone or is felon or if you buy a possibly stolen gun that some criminal is selling you?

I think the $25 bucks an FFL charges is worth it for my own peace of mind

No one intent on murder is ever going to be effected by a gun law, so there is no reason not to sell to them.
Felons can not legally be prevented from the right of self defense.
Creating a 2nd tier of reduced rights for felons is illegal.
Stolen guns get sold to felons who are wiling to pay more for them, so there is risk of buying a stolen one.

I disagree as regards felons. Felons have proven that they have no regard for the Rights of others so I have no problem limiting theirs.

you arent the god that gives and takes our rights,, but thanks for your opinion,,

If you commit a felony you have given up your rights by being irresponsible

sorry but youre not the god that gives and takes rights away,,

you leftist are always the same,, you attack anyone that doesnt toe the line,,,

What you don't realize is that I cannot violate any of your rights.

I don't have to sell you a gun if I don't want to. I don't have to allow you the right to say whatever you want in my home or business. etc

The Bill of Rights only protects you from the government violating your rights.

youre opinion can start the process and support it,,,

I had nothing to do with federal gun laws that are on the books.

I just happen to agree that people who choose to commit felonies shouldn't own guns because they have already proven they are incapable of handling the responsibility.

I disagree, for several different reasons.

One, there are way too many ways to commit a felony in this country; not everyone who does is the same, nor should they all be treated the same.
Two, I have a real problem with a government believing it has the legitimate authority to act as some sort of arbiter of an individual's rights.
Three, anyone who has demonstrated that they are so dangerous that they we don't want them to have a gun, is too damned dangerous to be left walking loose. They don't need guns to hurt women, the elderly, and small children, do they?
Someone like that, you either drag his ass behind a truck clear into the next state and tell him he's dead if he ever comes back, or you just kill him and be done with it.

That whole idea that anyone can be convicted of a felony is ridiculous.

Like I said if the federal law that prohibits felons from owning gins is found to be unconstitutional so be it. But I have to wonder why that law hasn't been challenged yet.

Government is nothing but organized crime.

I don't need to hear their opinion about who should and should not have rights.

As far as I'm concerned a piece of shit who victimizes or harms another and is convicted of a felony for it voluntarily gives up his rights.

Like everything else being a fucking piece of shit criminal is a choice and choices have consequences.

You're confusing "criminal" with "predator". And the biggest and most harmful "piece of shit criminals", the ones who are the most dangerous, that I have encountered in a lifetime of violent living, have all been the guys who seek positions of authority from which to do their dirt. Politicians, cops, and high ranking military...... many of them are the worst humans around and people thank them for their service. They choose those positions specifically to shield themselves from "consequences".
Why do you think so many people in positions of power and authority turn out to be pedos, sexual predators, and wife-beaters?
But try to defend yourself from a stalker/rapist cop or a psychopathic CO or 1st SGT when you're military, and you're going to find out real quick what rights matter and which don't.

Pretty hard to lie about being a convicted felon when the NICS will show that you have been convicted

That's the problem Bluz. It needs to be reported to NICS and too many cases it is not. Example, there was a shooter a while back, got his gun legally. He was dishonorably discharged but the AF never reported it. Hunter was other than honorable and was never reported. He lied about that on NICS 4473 and about his drug use, what else did he lie about. Either is enough for ATF to give him a $10K fine and or 10 years in club fed. Fat chance anything will happen.

There are over 10000 firearm laws on the books that are not enforced. "but we need more gun laws" Yeah right,

Don't give up on the good while waiting for the perfect and I have never advocated for more gun laws I simply want the federal gun laws we already have to be enforced.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Don't give up on the good while waiting for the perfect and I have never advocated for more gun laws I simply want the federal gun laws we already have to be enforced.

I advocate no new laws, get rid of the useless and unconstitutional laws and have LE and Feds do their jobs. Look at red flag, it's abused, it's wrong.

If the laws we do have were enforced, the problem would be reduced greatly. However they are not. If you or I were lying on the 4473 we would already be in club fed.

 

[freyasman]

I was on the phone with a prosecutor from the local DA's office about a guy who assaulted me (fucking skell bit me) a few months ago, and he told me the guy had a pretty long criminal history, and asked me what I was wanting in terms of prosecution. I was the victim, so I got some say, and he wanted to know did I want him to go for the max, or what? I told him, yeah, go for the max, but we both know it's going to get pled down. I told him what I really wanted, since he asked, was for his office to quit prosecuting people like me for killing shitbags like him..... most of the crime in the city would go away if we could just curb-stomp these fuckers to death without having to worry about being thrown in a cage for it. He agreed with the sentiment, but of course that wasn't going to happen.

Cops don't control crime in a given area; they never have. The men in that area do.... or don't. Every single place where the people of the area have allowed the cops to be the sole means of addressing crime, violent street crime has gone way up, and women, old people, and children can't walk the streets. Areas where the men sort shit out themselves and the local law doesn't even get called, tend to be quite a bit safer for the women and children, and the hogs and wild dogs tend to be well fed. You think the neighbors of some Tango Blast shotcaller are worried about burglaries and muggings on their block?




So advocating for more laws is a waste of time, and so is asking for more enforcement by LE....... the answer is less formal law enforcement, not more, and more men stepping up and acting like men.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Cops don't control crime in a given area; they never have. The men in that area do.... or don't. Every single place where the people of the area have allowed the cops to be the sole means of addressing crime, violent street crime has gone way up, and women, old people, and children can't walk the streets. Areas where the men sort shit out themselves and the local law doesn't even get called, tend to be quite a bit safer for the women and children, and the hogs and wild dogs tend to be well fed. You think the neighbors of some Tango Blast shotcaller are worried about burglaries and muggings on their block?

So advocating for more laws is a waste of time, and so is asking for more enforcement by LE....... the answer is less formal law enforcement, not more, and more men stepping up and acting like men.

There weren't gun control laws in the old west and crime was strictly addressed. The "men" took care of it. Try looting, burning, stealing cattle back then see what happens. It worked, permanent solution to shitbags instead of letting them go in 2 hrs.

And forget the PC liberal whining and bring back stop and frisk. It worked.

 

[freyasman]

Cops don't control crime in a given area; they never have. The men in that area do.... or don't. Every single place where the people of the area have allowed the cops to be the sole means of addressing crime, violent street crime has gone way up, and women, old people, and children can't walk the streets. Areas where the men sort shit out themselves and the local law doesn't even get called, tend to be quite a bit safer for the women and children, and the hogs and wild dogs tend to be well fed. You think the neighbors of some Tango Blast shotcaller are worried about burglaries and muggings on their block?

So advocating for more laws is a waste of time, and so is asking for more enforcement by LE....... the answer is less formal law enforcement, not more, and more men stepping up and acting like men.

There weren't gun control laws in the old west and crime was strictly addressed. The "men" took care of it. Try looting, burning, stealing cattle back then see what happens. It worked, permanent solution to shitbags instead of letting them go in 2 hrs.

And forget the PC liberal whining and bring back stop and frisk. It worked.

I'm 100% against stop and frisk.

Lots of shit is effective, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Lots of shit is effective, but that doesn't make it right.

What's wrong about it. Racial targeting?

 

[Likkmee]

I'm curious how many people buy or sell guns from or to a person they don't know.

I have never bought or sold a gun in a private sale. I don't want to buy a gun from someone only to find out it's a piece of junk and I don't want to buy any guns that may have been used in a crime so I only buy from licensed dealers.

I don't want to sell a gun to a person I don't know who may not be responsible or may commit crimes with a gun.

I'm a gunsmith. A quick phone call will verify the gun(ATF).A second to da popo with your drivers license number.
How much ya want boy ?
OH. I dont live in the M-pyre either.

 

[freyasman]

Lots of shit is effective, but that doesn't make it right.

What's wrong about it. Racial targeting?

4th amendment violation.

 

[Shawnee_b]

4th amendment violation.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Who determines "unreasonable"? Stop and frisk is not right? On the other hand what is not right are the constant senseless murders of men women and children on the weekends such as Chiraq. They had S&F, it worked. These gangbangers and wannabees are not reasonable "people", just animals.

In a drastic situation, take drastic measures. S&F doesn't only reduce senseless murders but may slap some sense into the wannabees and make them think twice before shooting some child.

 

[freyasman]

4th amendment violation.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Who determines "unreasonable"? Stop and frisk is not right? On the other hand what is not right are the constant senseless murders of men women and children on the weekends such as Chiraq. They had S&F, it worked. These gangbangers and wannabees are not reasonable "people", just animals.

In a drastic situation, take drastic measures. S&F doesn't only reduce senseless murders but may slap some sense into the wannabees and make them think twice before shooting some child.

Disagree.

If you cannot articulate the specific facts in evidence at the time that would lead any reasonable person to believe a crime is being, has been, or is about to be committed, then I don't have to stop for anyone, I don't have to answer any of their questions or even speak to anyone at all, and I sure as hell don't have to assume the position and submit to a search of my person, even a cursory one.


No.
No way.
Absolutely not.
Fuck that.
You won't believe how fast I will kill you for trying.





Try me.

 

[Shawnee_b]

If you cannot articulate the specific facts in evidence at the time that would lead any reasonable person to believe a crime is being, has been, or is about to be committed, then I don't have to stop for anyone, I don't have to answer any of their questions or even speak to anyone at all, and I sure as hell don't have to assume the position and submit to a search of my person, even a cursory one.


No.
No way.
Absolutely not.
Fuck that.
You won't believe how fast I will kill you for trying.





Try me.

It's OK to disagree.

 

[freyasman]

If you cannot articulate the specific facts in evidence at the time that would lead any reasonable person to believe a crime is being, has been, or is about to be committed, then I don't have to stop for anyone, I don't have to answer any of their questions or even speak to anyone at all, and I sure as hell don't have to assume the position and submit to a search of my person, even a cursory one.


No.
No way.
Absolutely not.
Fuck that.
You won't believe how fast I will kill you for trying.





Try me.

It's OK to disagree.

It is.

I think you're a good guy.

But this is a line for me.

 

[Shawnee_b]

It is.

I think you're a good guy.

But this is a line for me.

I think you are a good guy too and enjoy our conversations.

I know and see what you are saying. I agree it is wrong, but so isn't innocent slaughter. What rights haven't been eroded? 1st? haa, libtards have torn that to shreds. The crime of "hate speech", WTF? Gun control acts since 1934 and still going on, WTF? We do have to stand against rights being eroded.

However. It worked and would again. Patrol sees 2 groups of rivals headed towards each other 4am with bulges in their hoodies, several recognized as felons (that would be reasonable suspicion I believe). Frisk them and "prevent the crime"? Or wait for the crime and go cleanup. It's a hard line.