POLL: Open the economy up and go back to work - Stay home and shutdown

[j-mac]

And people need to avoid each other for awhile yet. You can open everything back up again but 90 percent of people are going to stay home anyway and avoid stores, etc. Rightfully so.

Oh? Have you talked to 90% of the people?

 

[initforme]

I worked my entire life. Been retired for over 20 years. Working people who now need income need help. A bill like this is what makes america exceptional. We help our people. Trump has done the absolute correct thing. He has stepped up.

 

[initforme]

All the working people I know are not going into stores at this time. That's a good thing.

 

[U2Edge]

"If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)...."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?fbclid=IwAR0SPSTfDLudxgJWv3HlenZz6jAil90aWNBxhh6nTRGWKsGmvw-_dRtH5u4

It's not the flu, it's not the flu.....oh, shit it's the flu.

We've been seeing a lot of reworking of these types of numbers over the past few days and most, if not all, that I've seen indicate that this was highly overestimated in terms of mortality rate and other metrics.

NOT discussing bringing elements of the economy back online in light of this data makes no sense whatsoever.

In the main hospital in Albany Georgia, every bed is full with Coronavirus patients. They have no more capacity left. That NEVER happens during flu season, and it is starting to happen in multiple cities around the country whether small or large! You'll soon see make shift morgues to handle the dead outside these hospitals as the body count rises. Does that happen during flu season? NO!

You wanna know why this is not the FLU, just ask any ER doctor in New York City! This is an unprecedented disaster! No one is going to go back to work to a non-essential service because that aids the virus in finding new host and increases the number of people that die.

There were 54,000 infections on March 24 in the United States. By the end of the day on March 27, there were 104,000 infections. That level of exponential growth, doubling every 3 to 4 days, will produce 5 million infections by Easter and a death toll of 50,000! The ENEMY, this PATHOGEN, has to be defeated before any non-essential service can open up again. Take this exponential growth to the end of April, and 1 million Americans would die because over 100 million would be infected! The daily infection rate increase must be cut from the average of 22% down below 8% and SOON!

Yes, and that's why we're trying to flatten the curve to keep from overwhelming the medical system, which makes sense, however, these prognostications of millions dead are looking increasingly wrong.

I cited the article. Fauci's name is on it, BTW. If you'd like to take issue with it, go ahead.

We are seeing growth in the numbers of cases here because we've just implemented larger scale testing and, of course, it is still spreading. Everyone, literally everyone, expected the numbers to spike once larger scale testing was implemented and, of course, they are.

Discussing opening up sections of the economy where the data indicates lesser risk makes sense. I know you think we should basically just dig a hole and climb in, as I've seen your posts, but we cannot do that indefinitely. If the data says otherwise, and it is beginning to look like the early numbers were flat wrong, that makes no sense. We have to strike a balance here.....

We can lock down non-essential services indefinitely. This is a national emergency. I hope the exponential growth is stopped, but if it is not, with doubling every three days and a 1% death rate, by the end of April with those stats, you will see 1 million dead Americans. That's basic math. There were 54,000 infections on March 24 and that nearly doubled by March 27 with 104,000 infections. A 1.6% death rate. At that rate, you will have 1 million dead Americans by the end of April! That's what the basic math shows.

There is NO reason for NON-ESSENTIAL services to be reopened for the next 3 months or 6 months if necessary. This is a national crises. The two ways you defeat this PATHOGEN are LOCKDOWN and increased testing.

There is overwhelming evidence of what happens when you don't lockdown and increase testing. There is NO EVIDENCE that shutting down non-essential services for 3 months or 3 years would not be something the country could not come back from.

Look at what happened during the Great Depression and World War II. Shutting down non-essential services is key to defeating this enemy, and every day you don't do that, you EXTEND THE CRISES which makes the overall economic hardship greater.

 

[U2Edge]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

 

[Redfish]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

FastStats

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.

www.cdc.gov

You can post a link to a comic book site that would support your idiotic claim as well.,

No where in that link does it say that the curve has flattened.

Stop lying

It shows that far more americans die of things other than corona but not one of them generates the panic and shutting down that we are doing today. Dr Brix yesterday gave statistics showing that the rate of new cases is trending down in spite of massive numbers of new tests.

Once again, can you tell us how many of the americans who have died during this epidemic would have died anyway of their underlying conditions? NO, you can't and without that data all statistics on this are meaningless.

 

[Redfish]

"If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)...."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?fbclid=IwAR0SPSTfDLudxgJWv3HlenZz6jAil90aWNBxhh6nTRGWKsGmvw-_dRtH5u4

It's not the flu, it's not the flu.....oh, shit it's the flu.

We've been seeing a lot of reworking of these types of numbers over the past few days and most, if not all, that I've seen indicate that this was highly overestimated in terms of mortality rate and other metrics.

NOT discussing bringing elements of the economy back online in light of this data makes no sense whatsoever.

In the main hospital in Albany Georgia, every bed is full with Coronavirus patients. They have no more capacity left. That NEVER happens during flu season, and it is starting to happen in multiple cities around the country whether small or large! You'll soon see make shift morgues to handle the dead outside these hospitals as the body count rises. Does that happen during flu season? NO!

You wanna know why this is not the FLU, just ask any ER doctor in New York City! This is an unprecedented disaster! No one is going to go back to work to a non-essential service because that aids the virus in finding new host and increases the number of people that die.

There were 54,000 infections on March 24 in the United States. By the end of the day on March 27, there were 104,000 infections. That level of exponential growth, doubling every 3 to 4 days, will produce 5 million infections by Easter and a death toll of 50,000! The ENEMY, this PATHOGEN, has to be defeated before any non-essential service can open up again. Take this exponential growth to the end of April, and 1 million Americans would die because over 100 million would be infected! The daily infection rate increase must be cut from the average of 22% down below 8% and SOON!

Yes, and that's why we're trying to flatten the curve to keep from overwhelming the medical system, which makes sense, however, these prognostications of millions dead are looking increasingly wrong.

I cited the article. Fauci's name is on it, BTW. If you'd like to take issue with it, go ahead.

We are seeing growth in the numbers of cases here because we've just implemented larger scale testing and, of course, it is still spreading. Everyone, literally everyone, expected the numbers to spike once larger scale testing was implemented and, of course, they are.

Discussing opening up sections of the economy where the data indicates lesser risk makes sense. I know you think we should basically just dig a hole and climb in, as I've seen your posts, but we cannot do that indefinitely. If the data says otherwise, and it is beginning to look like the early numbers were flat wrong, that makes no sense. We have to strike a balance here.....

We can lock down non-essential services indefinitely. This is a national emergency. I hope the exponential growth is stopped, but if it is not, with doubling every three days and a 1% death rate, by the end of April with those stats, you will see 1 million dead Americans. That's basic math. There were 54,000 infections on March 24 and that nearly doubled by March 27 with 104,000 infections. A 1.6% death rate. At that rate, you will have 1 million dead Americans by the end of April! That's what the basic math shows.

There is NO reason for NON-ESSENTIAL services to be reopened for the next 3 months or 6 months if necessary. This is a national crises. The two ways you defeat this PATHOGEN are LOCKDOWN and increased testing.

There is overwhelming evidence of what happens when you don't lockdown and increase testing. There is NO EVIDENCE that shutting down non-essential services for 3 months or 3 years would not be something the country could not come back from.

Look at what happened during the Great Depression and World War II. Shutting down non-essential services is key to defeating this enemy, and every day you don't do that, you EXTEND THE CRISES which makes the overall economic hardship greater.

so you want to line up in bread lines like in 1929 and 1930? Geez, dude, this thing is no where near as bad as you lefties want it to be. It won't help Biden, so get real and stop posting BS

 

[Redfish]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

 

[Redfish]

And people need to avoid each other for awhile yet. You can open everything back up again but 90 percent of people are going to stay home anyway and avoid stores, etc. Rightfully so.

what you are saying is let the people make their own decisions. Sounds like something the founders would have said.

 

[Fueri]

"If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)...."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?fbclid=IwAR0SPSTfDLudxgJWv3HlenZz6jAil90aWNBxhh6nTRGWKsGmvw-_dRtH5u4

It's not the flu, it's not the flu.....oh, shit it's the flu.

We've been seeing a lot of reworking of these types of numbers over the past few days and most, if not all, that I've seen indicate that this was highly overestimated in terms of mortality rate and other metrics.

NOT discussing bringing elements of the economy back online in light of this data makes no sense whatsoever.

In the main hospital in Albany Georgia, every bed is full with Coronavirus patients. They have no more capacity left. That NEVER happens during flu season, and it is starting to happen in multiple cities around the country whether small or large! You'll soon see make shift morgues to handle the dead outside these hospitals as the body count rises. Does that happen during flu season? NO!

You wanna know why this is not the FLU, just ask any ER doctor in New York City! This is an unprecedented disaster! No one is going to go back to work to a non-essential service because that aids the virus in finding new host and increases the number of people that die.

There were 54,000 infections on March 24 in the United States. By the end of the day on March 27, there were 104,000 infections. That level of exponential growth, doubling every 3 to 4 days, will produce 5 million infections by Easter and a death toll of 50,000! The ENEMY, this PATHOGEN, has to be defeated before any non-essential service can open up again. Take this exponential growth to the end of April, and 1 million Americans would die because over 100 million would be infected! The daily infection rate increase must be cut from the average of 22% down below 8% and SOON!

Yes, and that's why we're trying to flatten the curve to keep from overwhelming the medical system, which makes sense, however, these prognostications of millions dead are looking increasingly wrong.

I cited the article. Fauci's name is on it, BTW. If you'd like to take issue with it, go ahead.

We are seeing growth in the numbers of cases here because we've just implemented larger scale testing and, of course, it is still spreading. Everyone, literally everyone, expected the numbers to spike once larger scale testing was implemented and, of course, they are.

Discussing opening up sections of the economy where the data indicates lesser risk makes sense. I know you think we should basically just dig a hole and climb in, as I've seen your posts, but we cannot do that indefinitely. If the data says otherwise, and it is beginning to look like the early numbers were flat wrong, that makes no sense. We have to strike a balance here.....

We can lock down non-essential services indefinitely. This is a national emergency. I hope the exponential growth is stopped, but if it is not, with doubling every three days and a 1% death rate, by the end of April with those stats, you will see 1 million dead Americans. That's basic math. There were 54,000 infections on March 24 and that nearly doubled by March 27 with 104,000 infections. A 1.6% death rate. At that rate, you will have 1 million dead Americans by the end of April! That's what the basic math shows.

There is NO reason for NON-ESSENTIAL services to be reopened for the next 3 months or 6 months if necessary. This is a national crises. The two ways you defeat this PATHOGEN are LOCKDOWN and increased testing.

There is overwhelming evidence of what happens when you don't lockdown and increase testing. There is NO EVIDENCE that shutting down non-essential services for 3 months or 3 years would not be something the country could not come back from.

Look at what happened during the Great Depression and World War II. Shutting down non-essential services is key to defeating this enemy, and every day you don't do that, you EXTEND THE CRISES which makes the overall economic hardship greater.

No, we cannot just lock down non-essential services indefinitely.

Millions of people will not survive financially indefinitely with a few grand from the government. There is no bailout large enough to stave off what will happen under some indefinite shutdown. Unemployment will continue to skyrocket, business will fold, bankruptcies will mount, foreclosures will follow. These things are going to happen already and the longer this goes on the larger those numbers will get as more and more people are pushed underwater.

Locking everything down does not shorten the timeframe here. I'm not sure where you got that idea but it is wrong. If anything it extends the timeframe. Flattening the curve does not necessarily mean less cases- it spreads them over time, which results in a longer timeframe. All we need to do is look at the x-axis on any one of the graphs already put out, which plot time vs cases to see that. We can hope as spring arrives some of this will lessen, and maybe it will, but that's uncertain.

If the data indicates it we need to reshape our thinking as that data evolves. That data seems to have been updated by the same experts most people have been telling us we should be looking to for answers, and we are looking at new information just over the last few days. This new data seemingly contradicts a lot of what we have been told to this point which has shaped our thinking and our strategies. We need to incorporate updated information into our decision-making process here and not just sit in the most conservative position possible across the entire country.

There has to be an end game here and we need to start figuring out what that looks like and continue moving forward. Just locking down nationally indefinitely is not a plan, nor is waiting until we have a vaccine, as that's a year+ out.

 

[kyzr]

1. Why can't you isolate most people over 60?

You, or an ally, will have to kill me, and I will shoot back. Is that reason enough?

Not really a good reason, either isolate or take your chances with the virus.
IMHO businesses will be reopening sooner rather than later.

 

[james bond]

Forget it. We're already going to be the new COVID-19 epicenter of the world. We'll just have to brace up and get through the depression.

Depression is a state of mind. Inactivity perpetuates it.

Not that. The economic one. Stock market crash.

 

[james bond]

the dems want a depression, they think it will help senile Joe win. They are wrong, but thats their hope.

That didn't occur to me. I'm still trying to get used to senile Joe running against POTUS DJT.

 

[HenryBHough]

No economy?

No country.

At this point the left seems to think we don' need no stinkin' country and I'm beginning to think we might be better without one, too. Every person for him/her/it self! Grow your own or starve.

 

[kyzr]

Trump was headed down to VA to see hospital ship COMFORT off to NYC.
He was asked if the NYC metropolitan area would be quarantined because states are complaining that new yorkers are infecting their states. He said yes for about 2-weeks. I can't wait to see tanks in the tunnels and on the bridges keeping them penned in. Cuomo said WTF?? That's news to him.

 

[WEATHER53]

Gonna have to throw the red flag of fakery as to Lesh describing the pain of shutting down their own business.
Independent owners speak in certain ways. You have demonstrated Zero of those philosophies and speaking mannerisms

 

[sparky]

1. Why can't you isolate most people over 60?

because they just don't make enough cheap whisky

~S~

 

[sparky]

Gonna have to throw the red flag of fakery as to Lesh describing the pain of shutting down their own business.

the only fakery is the entire Covid tactics turning Americans into scared rabbits

~S~

 

[WEATHER53]

Libs
The more people tested the more people positive. It’s hard to measure if there is any percentage increase in infecteds because total numbers tested is not being kept and many or most non symptomatic are not being tested nor recorded
Kinda odd how the great devastator of the planet cannot really be measured. Pretty good way also to keep people under the fear guns

 

[WEATHER53]

"If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)...."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?fbclid=IwAR0SPSTfDLudxgJWv3HlenZz6jAil90aWNBxhh6nTRGWKsGmvw-_dRtH5u4

It's not the flu, it's not the flu.....oh, shit it's the flu.

We've been seeing a lot of reworking of these types of numbers over the past few days and most, if not all, that I've seen indicate that this was highly overestimated in terms of mortality rate and other metrics.

NOT discussing bringing elements of the economy back online in light of this data makes no sense whatsoever.

In the main hospital in Albany Georgia, every bed is full with Coronavirus patients. They have no more capacity left. That NEVER happens during flu season, and it is starting to happen in multiple cities around the country whether small or large! You'll soon see make shift morgues to handle the dead outside these hospitals as the body count rises. Does that happen during flu season? NO!

You wanna know why this is not the FLU, just ask any ER doctor in New York City! This is an unprecedented disaster! No one is going to go back to work to a non-essential service because that aids the virus in finding new host and increases the number of people that die.

There were 54,000 infections on March 24 in the United States. By the end of the day on March 27, there were 104,000 infections. That level of exponential growth, doubling every 3 to 4 days, will produce 5 million infections by Easter and a death toll of 50,000! The ENEMY, this PATHOGEN, has to be defeated before any non-essential service can open up again. Take this exponential growth to the end of April, and 1 million Americans would die because over 100 million would be infected! The daily infection rate increase must be cut from the average of 22% down below 8% and SOON!

Dear Math Tard
As the number of people tested increases , let’s say from 25,000 per day to 75,000 per day, then the number of positives well may triple also. That’s not the 3X buzzword “exponential” you alarmists keep throwing around.
It’s the normal, step by step, progression of a larger sample size