POLL: Let's try a COVID compromise, shall we?

[Rigby5]

It is not experimental. It is proven. Meanwhile in millions of cases.



Sorry - but Blacks, Disabled and also Muslims don't infect themselves or others with an extremelly dangerous virus. You could compare the "non-Vaxxed" with drunken cowboys who are shooting each other and innocent people - while all others try to convince them to let it be to do so.

No, mRNA injections have not existed long enough to be able to prove anything.
The fact they reduce mortality does not mean they cause immunity to be stored in long term T-cell memory.
You have to wait for the initial antibodies to die off, re-infect the person a year later, and then see if new antibodies are produced, in order to tell if the person who has been vaxed had long term immunity. No one has found any long term immunity from an mRNA vax yet.

 

[zaangalewa]

It is experimental.

Not here in Germany. We proved everything what we need to know.

It went through 6 months of clinical trials while all other vaccines went through 8-12 years before they were approved. We do know it is destroying the immune system.

Indeed "we" needed only 2 days to make the first mRNA vaccine. The very most time was needed for the tests of all relevant factors. This needed nearly 1 year. Thanks the help of god and of many scientists from many cultures and nations 8-12 years was yesterday. Future is now.

 

[j-mac]

Problem with your post is that antibodies are not the source of immunity.
Immunity is stored in T-cells in your bone marrow, so can't be detected or counted.
So you can't tell if someone is immune or not without injecting them with something to stimulate antibody production.
Antibodies only live less than 4 months or so.
They can't be used to tell if immune or not.
But the problem with these mRNA injections is they appear to ONLY produce antibodies, and NOT any permanent T-cell memory.

“This long-term immune protection involves several components. Antibodies—proteins that circulate in the blood—recognize foreign substances like viruses and neutralize them. Different types of T cells help recognize and kill pathogens. B cells make new antibodies when the body needs them.

All of these immune-system components have been found in people who recover from SARS-CoV-2…”

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.

www.nih.gov

There were early reports that those who contracted covid early on had better, and longer lasting immunity. That was quashed…why?
I’ll follow the science, but this feels like control instead of concern…

 

[j-mac]

They aren't even doing that. The jabs are all a based on the Alpha variant's spike protein. They do not work on the Delta variant.

The pandemic is Political, not Public Health related. Our corrupt "Elites" want it to go on forever as a way to control and punish anyone who doesn't support their agenda.

Well, that’s what it feels like.

 

[boedicca]

Well, that’s what it feels like.

It it walks like Tyranny, talks like Tyranny and quacks like Tyranny...

it's Tyranny.

 

[HappyJoy]

Wrong.

It was your ******* study you wanted to talk about.

No one knows how they get infected since they do not feel symptoms or test positive for a week later.
So the claim those infected got it from those without a vax is an obvious lie.

They do know through contact tracing and the fact that Israel is highly vaccinated and highly tested. Again, if you don't like the study then don't bring it up as though it proves something for you when the exact opposite is true.

The only thing you wrote that was true was that those who did get the vax were very much less likely to die.

Kind of an important point. Maybe key.

But it also appears that prevention of death is not going to even last 6 months.

I have no idea why you are hung up on this. This is a non-issue.

These mRNA injections can't produce long term immunity memory because there is nothing that can be stored in long term T-cell memory.

Unimportant.

The mRNA injections only produce spike proteins, and your immune system can not remember to trigger on spike proteins because or own exosomes have to also use spike proteins in order to access ACE2 receptors.

So? Better than dying, right?

The claim the vax prevents spread is false.

Again, your own study doesn't agree with you.

Spread happens most in the first week, and your immune system does not even yet know about your infection in the first week.

It's interesting that the Israeli study seems to disagree with you on vaccinated people spreading the virus. Another study:

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

British scientists examined how the Pfizer-BioNTech and the AstraZeneca vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection.

www.nbcnews.com

People who are vaccinated against Covid-19 are less likely to spread the virus even if they become infected, a new study finds, adding to a growing body of evidence that vaccines can reduce transmission of the delta variant.

..

Both vaccines reduced transmission, although they were more effective against the alpha variant compared to the delta variant. When infected with the delta variant, a given contact was 65 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. With AstraZeneca, a given contact was 36 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated.

You can read the rest (you probably won't but could) but this study lines up very well with your Israeli study (that for some reason you didn't want to post) that demonstrates that vaccinated people spread the virus less.

There are NO studies that show the vax reduces infection, at all.

I've provided two studies now that say otherwise.

The spread likely happened BEFORE the person got tested and discovered they were infected, and there is no way to trace that spread.
And obviously people are going to not spread after testing positive, because they are going to take additional precautions.

Except that the studies I provided demonstrate that if you're vaccinated you're less likely to spread COVID if you happen to get it.

You keep wanting to denounce these studies simply because you don't agree with them. Who cares what you agree with? You're a nobody vs. the scientists and other professionals conducting the studies.

And no, antibodies are NOT where long term immunity information is stored by the body.
It is T-cells and B-cells in the bone marrow, and they produce the temporary antibodies only when needed.
T-cells and B-cells are NOT antibodies.

Neat. Get vaccinated, putz.

 

[Mac1958]

No, I asked if you'd give fat people, druggies, a place in the basement for their decisions when they stroked out? I've got my answer. You'd be a fine assistant for mengele!

I really would! Seig Heil!

 

[zaangalewa]

No, mRNA injections have not existed long enough to be able to prove anything.

To make a test how a dice works you can throw the same dice again and again and again. Or you can throw many dices the same time and overstep the river of no return on a bridge.

The fact they reduce mortality does not mean they cause immunity to be stored in long term T-cell memory.

What's in the T-cell memory you know in the moment the T-cells are activated. ... Here's a good description: Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work

You have to wait for the initial antibodies to die off, re-infect the person a year later, and then see if new antibodies are produced, in order to tell if the person who has been vaxed had long term immunity. No one has found any long term immunity from an mRNA vax yet.

What do you expect will happen with me within the next 10-20 years because I used an mRNA vaccine against covid-19 and feel very well?

 

[zaangalewa]

I really would! Seig Heil!

Victory = "Sieg" not "Seig". "Seig" is not a German word.

 

[Mac1958]

Victory = "Sieg" not "Seig". "Seig" is not a German word.

Dang!

 

[Lastamender]

It was your ******* study you wanted to talk about.


They do know through contact tracing and the fact that Israel is highly vaccinated and highly tested. Again, if you don't like the study then don't bring it up as though it proves something for you when the exact opposite is true.


Kind of an important point. Maybe key.


I have no idea why you are hung up on this. This is a non-issue.



Unimportant.



So? Better than dying, right?



Again, your own study doesn't agree with you.



It's interesting that the Israeli study seems to disagree with you on vaccinated people spreading the virus. Another study:

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

British scientists examined how the Pfizer-BioNTech and the AstraZeneca vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection.

www.nbcnews.com

People who are vaccinated against Covid-19 are less likely to spread the virus even if they become infected, a new study finds, adding to a growing body of evidence that vaccines can reduce transmission of the delta variant.

..

Both vaccines reduced transmission, although they were more effective against the alpha variant compared to the delta variant. When infected with the delta variant, a given contact was 65 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. With AstraZeneca, a given contact was 36 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated.

You can read the rest (you probably won't but could) but this study lines up very well with your Israeli study (that for some reason you didn't want to post) that demonstrates that vaccinated people spread the virus less.


I've provided two studies now that say otherwise.



Except that the studies I provided demonstrate that if you're vaccinated you're less likely to spread COVID if you happen to get it.

You keep wanting to denounce these studies simply because you don't agree with them. Who cares what you agree with? You're a nobody vs. the scientists and other professionals conducting the studies.

Neat. Get vaccinated, putz.

Let him chose for himself, putz.

 

[zaangalewa]

Dang!

Dangerous? Why? "Sieg Heil" means verbally "Sane Victory". Perhaps it is a short cut from "heal"="Heil"="Heilig"="holy". In this case it would mean "holy victory". It's said the origin had been in the year 1918 (world war 1) ... "Heil und Sieg" ... in this case I would say the origin had been a toast "health and victory".

 

[Rigby5]

Not here in Germany. We proved everything what we need to know.



Indeed "we" needed only 2 days to make the first mRNA vaccine. The very most time was needed for the tests of all relevant factors. This needed nearly 1 year. Thanks the help of god and of many scientists from many cultures and nations 8-12 years was yesterday. Future is now.

Wrong.
There has been no proof the mRNA injections store anything in long term T-cell immunity memory.
These mRNA injection have only existed for 6 months, so there is no way anyone could test if they do produce any sort of long term immunity memory.

Not only do we know that these mRNA injections have over 10 times the risks of previous vaccinations, but it could take a decade to learn about all the possible negative side effects.
For example, while they do reduce the deaths, the deaths were from deadly cytokine storm, immune system over reactions.
So if they reduce that, are they reducing ALL immune system responses?
It appears they are, as other problems, like cancers, seem to have an associated increase.
And what are the odds of a future response like our own immune system attacking our own exosomes, since they also use spike proteins?

There is no way to compress the testing down from the previous 8 years down to 1 because we can't artificially make all the conditions in the lab.
We have to wait for the real world events to happen naturally in their own time frame.
Such as allergic reactions.
We don't know who has them, so we can't assign a control group.
By accident, we could pick groups who simply do not have any one with an allergic risk.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Not here in Germany. We proved everything what we need to know.



Indeed "we" needed only 2 days to make the first mRNA vaccine. The very most time was needed for the tests of all relevant factors. This needed nearly 1 year. Thanks the help of god and of many scientists from many cultures and nations 8-12 years was yesterday. Future is now.

Thats not science. There's no way of knowing how the mRNA injections may be affecting the body's immune system, chemistry etc. Not enough time has passed.

 

[zaangalewa]

Wrong.

?

There has been no proof the mRNA injections store anything in long term T-cell immunity memory.
These mRNA injection have only existed for 6 months, so there is no way anyone could test if they do produce any sort of long term immunity memory.

Not only do we know that these mRNA injections have over 10 times the risks of previous vaccinations, but it could take a decade to learn about all the possible negative side effects.
For example, while they do reduce the deaths, the deaths were from deadly cytokine storm, immune system over reactions.
So if they reduce that, are they reducing ALL immune system responses?
It appears they are, as other problems, like cancers, seem to have an associated increase.
And what are the odds of a future response like our own immune system attacking our own exosomes, since they also use spike proteins?

There is no way to compress the testing down from the previous 8 years down to 1 because we can't artificially make all the conditions in the lab.
We have to wait for the real world events to happen naturally in their own time frame.
Such as allergic reactions.

Which allergic reactions? Where? When?

We don't know who has them, so we can't assign a control group.
By accident, we could pick groups who simply do not have any one with an allergic risk.

It makes in my ears not a big sense what you say. What do we not see what happens with the millions of vaccinated people? We control every death of everyone who dies after a vaccination. And the peope who are alive are able to say whatever they like to say. Where are all the problems you speak about in reality and not only in fantasy?

 

[Rigby5]

To make a test how a dice works you can throw the same dice again and again and again. Or you can throw many dices the same time and overstep the river of no return on a bridge.



What's in the T-cell memory you know in the moment the T-cells are activated. ... Here's a good description: Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work



What do you expect will happen with me within the next 10-20 years because I used an mRNA vaccine against covid-19 and feel very well?

Wrong.

Sequentially rolling the same dice over and over a million times is not the same as rolling a million pair of dice all at once in biology.
In biology, the shape and size of the dice changes each time you roll them.

If what you believe is true really were, then a more numerous species would evolve faster than a barely surviving species, and yet we know it is the other way around.
Evolution is sequential, NOT in parallel.

I do not "expect" anything.
But what could happens it that after 6 months, you might have zero immunity to covid, since you may not have stored any T-cell response.
You might also die because your immune system might start attacking your own exosome spike proteins.
You might also die of cancers because your immune system may have a reduced response to everything.

 

[Rigby5]

Dangerous? Why? "Sieg Heil" means verbally "Sane Victory". Perhaps it is a short cut from "heal"="Heil"="Heilig"="holy". In this case it would mean "holy victory". It's said the origin had been in the year 1918 (world war 1) ... "Heil und Sieg" ... in this case I would say the origin had been a toast "health and victory".

His response, "dang", was not short for "dangerous".
Its just a rural expression meaning something like "unfortunate".
Not sure why they posted it.
Likely he meant he could not think of a good response?

 

[zaangalewa]

Thats not science.

What is not science?

There's no way of knowing how the mRNA injections may be affecting the body's immune system, chemistry etc. Not enough time has passed.

-> direction time
..................................................................................................x.

Y direction space
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
........x.


I both cases are the number of events "." the same number. Let "x" be a problem then we see in the second case here the problem "x" 10 times faster. => The more people are vaccinated the less plausible is what you say.

And in general seem to be your "hypothese" a kind of "self-fulfilling hypothese". If no one makes a vaccination because a vaccination seems to be dangerous then no one will find out that it is not dangerous.

 

[Rigby5]

?



Which allergic reactions? Where? When?



It makes in my ears not a big sense what you say. What do we not see what happens with the millions of vaccinated people? We control every death of everyone who dies after a vaccination. And the peope who are alive are able to say whatever they like to say. Where are all the problems you speak about in reality and not only in fantasy?

All vaccines can and do have allergic reactions that sometime are fatal.
The overall term is usually called anaphylactic shock.

It can be from an allergy to ingredients, or can be from an immune system response to the biological effects.

Anaphylaxis associated with the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines: Approach to allergy investigation - PubMed

Reports about cases of anaphylaxis to mRNA vaccines have created anxiety in the community and could increase vaccine hesitancy in the population. There are no standardized protocols for allergy testing to mRNA vaccines. PEG is currently the only excipient in both vaccines with recognized...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

One of the problems with these mRNA injections is there is no quantity control because the risky spike proteins are not measured out in the injection ahead of time, but are instead a variable quantity since they are grown in out on cells, in our own bodies.
When our cell ribosomes translate the mRNA instructions to grow spike proteins, with some people there will be no spike protein production, while with other people the response will be so great as to cause an overdose reaction.

 

[Rigby5]

What is not science?



-> direction time
..................................................................................................x.

Y direction space
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
..........
........x.


I both cases are the number of events "." the same number. Let "x" be a problem then we see in the second case here the problem "x" 10 times faster.

Wrong.
Invalid for biological system.
In biological system, each event effects the next, so you can't do it in parallel.
For example, the evolution of the original "gain of function" research could not have been compressed by doing more in parallel in a larger lab.
It is the same for evolution of variant strains.
You can't speed it up with parallelism.