Zone1 Perhaps the most compelling prophesy in human history.

[Votto]

Daniel 9:24-27​

​

New International Version​

​

​

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Let me guess, you can't make hides or tails out of it, right?

Right.

The term Anointed one is in reference to the Messiah because that is the translation of Messiah. When looking in the OT, we find this a handful of places, but most of them are in reference to anointing kings of Israel like Saul and David. Why is this important? It is important because all other Messianic prophesies are interpreted as being Messianic in origin. However, there is no need for interpretation here because Messiah is spelled out for us.

This is the only verifiable futuristic reference to a coming Messiah or anointed one. In fact, it is a calendar for the coming Messiah that Christians believe was Christ.

The first Christian on record that made the observation that this was a calendar for the coming Messiah appears to have been Justin Martyr who lived from 153 to 165 AD. What is strange, however, is that he never made any written explanation as to calculating the time of the Daniel prophesy to the time of Jesus.

Then came Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 180) who also associated the verse with the calendar for Christ but failed to give us an explanation of the calculation.

However, Clement of Alexandria (ca. A.D. 200) gave it a go as he was the first Christian writer to explain the time periods in Daniel 9, although he was a bit vague about the details. For him:

• • The “most holy” one (Dan 9:24) is Jesus Christ.
  • The 490 years began with Cyrus.
  • The first seven weeks (49 years) were the period of the construction of the temple.
  • The 62 weeks led up to the first advent of Christ.
  • The final week includes Nero’s erection of an “abomination” in Jerusalem as well as the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70.

Clement, therefore, included both Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem in the 490 years. But this implies a gap between the first 69 weeks and the last week.

From then on, there have been, and continue to be, a myriad of Christian theologians who tried their hand at the calculations, which was difficult for various reasons. First off, the wording in Daniel is weird as they used strange verbiage to describe the passing of time. Secondly, the Jewish calendar Daniel used was different from the Gregorian calendar we all use today. For example, the Jewish calendar has 360 days and ours has 365 days. Then factor in the leap year problem. Not only do you have to factor them in, not all centuries on the Gregorian calendar had leap years as the Gregorian calendar therefore omits three leap days every 400 years. And lastly, the original translation was in Hebrew. Only those who were experts in Hebrew had no problem with the wording, or the calendar. So, over the years the calculations seem to have been getting better and better as theologians build off each other's findings and interpretations.

So, what did Jewish scholars say about the scripture? After all, they were the experts, right?

Maimonides, who lived from (1138–1204) was the most preeminent Rabbinical medieval philosopher in history, had this to say about the verse.

"Daniel has made known to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of the Messiah's coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah." (Igeret Teimen, Chapter 3. p.24)

Likewise, the Sanhedrin wrote, "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people (Sanhedrin, 97b)

Sounds to me like this verse is a hot potato with Jewish scribes. In fact, a rabbi by the name of Leopold Cohn, who was also a rabbi born in Berezna, Hungary in the mid 1800s was also fascinated with the calendar. It all began as Cohn recited his morning devotions that involved the 12th article of the Jewish creed which declares, "I believe with a perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah and, though he tarries, yet will I wait daily for his coming." So, Cohn got to wondering what was meant by the Messiah having to tarry or wait to come. He was then directed to the teachings of non-other than Maimonides, who was convinced from Daniel 9 that the Messiah should have come, at least by the year 1138, but did not for whatever reason. Naturally, he did not provide us with his calculation. What a shame.

Cohn was told by his superiors that the Messiah delayed his coming because of the sinfulness of Israel. In other words, God changed his mind. However, Cohn did not buy it, as he calculated the calendar for the coming Messiah himself and said it pointed to the time of Jesus. Cohn then ended up giving up his entire career as a rabbi and came to America to start the Jews for Jesus movement.

 

[jackflash]

Daniel 9:24-27​

​

New International Version​

​

​

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Let me guess, you can't make hides or tails out of it, right?

Right.

The term Anointed one is in reference to the Messiah because that is the translation of Messiah. When looking in the OT, we find this a handful of places, but most of them are in reference to anointing kings of Israel like Saul and David. Why is this important? It is important because all other Messianic prophesies are interpreted as being Messianic in origin. However, there is no need for interpretation here because Messiah is spelled out for us.

This is the only verifiable futuristic reference to a coming Messiah or anointed one. In fact, it is a calendar for the coming Messiah that Christians believe was Christ.

The first Christian on record that made the observation that this was a calendar for the coming Messiah appears to have been Justin Martyr who lived from 153 to 165 AD. What is strange, however, is that he never made any written explanation as to calculating the time of the Daniel prophesy to the time of Jesus.

Then came Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 180) who also associated the verse with the calendar for Christ but failed to give us an explanation of the calculation.

However, Clement of Alexandria (ca. A.D. 200) gave it a go as he was the first Christian writer to explain the time periods in Daniel 9, although he was a bit vague about the details. For him:

• • The “most holy” one (Dan 9:24) is Jesus Christ.
  • The 490 years began with Cyrus.
  • The first seven weeks (49 years) were the period of the construction of the temple.
  • The 62 weeks led up to the first advent of Christ.
  • The final week includes Nero’s erection of an “abomination” in Jerusalem as well as the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70.

Clement, therefore, included both Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem in the 490 years. But this implies a gap between the first 69 weeks and the last week.

From then on, there have been, and continue to be, a myriad of Christian theologians who tried their hand at the calculations, which was difficult for various reasons. First off, the wording in Daniel is weird as they used strange verbiage to describe the passing of time. Secondly, the Jewish calendar Daniel used was different from the Gregorian calendar we all use today. For example, the Jewish calendar has 360 days and ours has 365 days. Then factor in the leap year problem. Not only do you have to factor them in, not all centuries on the Gregorian calendar had leap years as the Gregorian calendar therefore omits three leap days every 400 years. And lastly, the original translation was in Hebrew. Only those who were experts in Hebrew had no problem with the wording, or the calendar. So, over the years the calculations seem to have been getting better and better as theologians build off each other's findings and interpretations.

So, what did Jewish scholars say about the scripture? After all, they were the experts, right?

Maimonides, who lived from (1138–1204) was the most preeminent Rabbinical medieval philosopher in history, had this to say about the verse.

"Daniel has made known to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of the Messiah's coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah." (Igeret Teimen, Chapter 3. p.24)

Likewise, the Sanhedrin wrote, "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people (Sanhedrin, 97b)

Sounds to me like this verse is a hot potato with Jewish scribes. In fact, a rabbi by the name of Leopold Cohn, who was also a rabbi born in Berezna, Hungary in the mid 1800s was also fascinated with the calendar. It all began as Cohn recited his morning devotions that involved the 12th article of the Jewish creed which declares, "I believe with a perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah and, though he tarries, yet will I wait daily for his coming." So, Cohn got to wondering what was meant by the Messiah having to tarry or wait to come. He was then directed to the teachings of non-other than Maimonides, who was convinced from Daniel 9 that the Messiah should have come, at least by the year 1138, but did not for whatever reason. Naturally, he did not provide us with his calculation. What a shame.

Cohn was told by his superiors that the Messiah delayed his coming because of the sinfulness of Israel. In other words, God changed his mind. However, Cohn did not buy it, as he calculated the calendar for the coming Messiah himself and said it pointed to the time of Jesus. Cohn then ended up giving up his entire career as a rabbi and came to America to start the Jews for Jesus movement.

Votto, below is an interesting read for sure. It's one man's opinion & It's somewhat lengthy for such a short study but worded to be easy to comprehend so one does not get lost in rhetoric.

Hitler Will Rise Again! | Christian Answer Man

By Mark W Swarbrick The Mystery of the Antichrist & the Seventh Kingdom If you find this article interesting you would probably like my book, End of Days: What the Bible Says Happens Next Available on Amazon for just five dollars - Click HERE. Most Christians know that Israel becoming a nation...

christiananswerman.com

 

[Arlette]

Votto, below is an interesting read for sure. It's one man's opinion & It's somewhat lengthy for such a short study but worded to be easy to comprehend so one does not get lost in rhetoric.

Hitler Will Rise Again! | Christian Answer Man

By Mark W Swarbrick The Mystery of the Antichrist & the Seventh Kingdom If you find this article interesting you would probably like my book, End of Days: What the Bible Says Happens Next Available on Amazon for just five dollars - Click HERE. Most Christians know that Israel becoming a nation...

christiananswerman.com

Oh wow. All the secrets of the universe for five bucks

 

[surada]

Daniel 9:24-27​

​

New International Version​

​

​

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Let me guess, you can't make hides or tails out of it, right?

Right.

The term Anointed one is in reference to the Messiah because that is the translation of Messiah. When looking in the OT, we find this a handful of places, but most of them are in reference to anointing kings of Israel like Saul and David. Why is this important? It is important because all other Messianic prophesies are interpreted as being Messianic in origin. However, there is no need for interpretation here because Messiah is spelled out for us.

This is the only verifiable futuristic reference to a coming Messiah or anointed one. In fact, it is a calendar for the coming Messiah that Christians believe was Christ.

The first Christian on record that made the observation that this was a calendar for the coming Messiah appears to have been Justin Martyr who lived from 153 to 165 AD. What is strange, however, is that he never made any written explanation as to calculating the time of the Daniel prophesy to the time of Jesus.

Then came Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 180) who also associated the verse with the calendar for Christ but failed to give us an explanation of the calculation.

However, Clement of Alexandria (ca. A.D. 200) gave it a go as he was the first Christian writer to explain the time periods in Daniel 9, although he was a bit vague about the details. For him:

• • The “most holy” one (Dan 9:24) is Jesus Christ.
  • The 490 years began with Cyrus.
  • The first seven weeks (49 years) were the period of the construction of the temple.
  • The 62 weeks led up to the first advent of Christ.
  • The final week includes Nero’s erection of an “abomination” in Jerusalem as well as the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70.

Clement, therefore, included both Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem in the 490 years. But this implies a gap between the first 69 weeks and the last week.

From then on, there have been, and continue to be, a myriad of Christian theologians who tried their hand at the calculations, which was difficult for various reasons. First off, the wording in Daniel is weird as they used strange verbiage to describe the passing of time. Secondly, the Jewish calendar Daniel used was different from the Gregorian calendar we all use today. For example, the Jewish calendar has 360 days and ours has 365 days. Then factor in the leap year problem. Not only do you have to factor them in, not all centuries on the Gregorian calendar had leap years as the Gregorian calendar therefore omits three leap days every 400 years. And lastly, the original translation was in Hebrew. Only those who were experts in Hebrew had no problem with the wording, or the calendar. So, over the years the calculations seem to have been getting better and better as theologians build off each other's findings and interpretations.

So, what did Jewish scholars say about the scripture? After all, they were the experts, right?

Maimonides, who lived from (1138–1204) was the most preeminent Rabbinical medieval philosopher in history, had this to say about the verse.

"Daniel has made known to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of the Messiah's coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah." (Igeret Teimen, Chapter 3. p.24)

Likewise, the Sanhedrin wrote, "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people (Sanhedrin, 97b)

Sounds to me like this verse is a hot potato with Jewish scribes. In fact, a rabbi by the name of Leopold Cohn, who was also a rabbi born in Berezna, Hungary in the mid 1800s was also fascinated with the calendar. It all began as Cohn recited his morning devotions that involved the 12th article of the Jewish creed which declares, "I believe with a perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah and, though he tarries, yet will I wait daily for his coming." So, Cohn got to wondering what was meant by the Messiah having to tarry or wait to come. He was then directed to the teachings of non-other than Maimonides, who was convinced from Daniel 9 that the Messiah should have come, at least by the year 1138, but did not for whatever reason. Naturally, he did not provide us with his calculation. What a shame.

Cohn was told by his superiors that the Messiah delayed his coming because of the sinfulness of Israel. In other words, God changed his mind. However, Cohn did not buy it, as he calculated the calendar for the coming Messiah himself and said it pointed to the time of Jesus. Cohn then ended up giving up his entire career as a rabbi and came to America to start the Jews for Jesus movement.

Antiochus IV Epiphanies was anointed.

 

[Votto]

Antiochus IV Epiphanies was anointed.

Source?

You do realize he was at war with the Jews, why would they anoint him?

Additionally, he was not even "cut off", or murdered like the prophesy states.

No idea where you get this.

Source?

 

[surada]

Source?

You do realize he was at war with the Jews, why would they anoint him?

Additionally, he was not even "cut off", or murdered like the prophesy states.

No idea where you get this.

Source?

Antiochus IV was Greek. Daniel is all about Antiochus. He had defiled the temple and forbid circumcision..among other things in his efforts to hellenize the Jews. His was the first Abomination of Desolation.

 

[Cougarbear]

Antiochus IV was Greek. Daniel is all about Antiochus. He had defiled the temple and forbid circumcision..among other things in his efforts to hellenize the Jews. His was the first Abomination of Desolation.

Oh stop! No one believes you.

 

[surada]

Oh stop! No one believes you.

Read Daniel. Do you know why the Jews celebrate chanukah?Antiochus IV defiled the temple and made it an ⚛ ⚛ abomination of desolation . Chanukah celebrated the rededication of the temple. Joseph Smith was poorly educated..


.
.

 

[Cougarbear]

Read Daniel. Do you know why the Jews celebrate chanukah?Antiochus IV defiled the temple and made it an ⚛ ⚛ abomination of desolation . Chanukah celebrated the rededication of the temple. Joseph Smith was poorly educated..


.
.

He was very aware of the truth. Several of his converts were ministers of churches. However, the present day meaning is for us in the last days of the earth. And, it’s all very clear to the inspired of God Christians. It’s too bad you do not understand what a prophet, seer and Revelator is.

 

[surada]

He was very aware of the truth. Several of his converts were ministers of churches. However, the present day meaning is for us in the last days of the earth. And, it’s all very clear to the inspired of God Christians. It’s too bad you do not understand what a prophet, seer and Revelator is.

They probably had no education either to fall for such nonsense. Have you ever read Daniel or the book of the Maccabees?

John of Patmos is writing first century history, not prophecy.

 

[TNHarley]

Still waiting for that darn messianic period

 

[Cougarbear]

They probably had no education either to fall for such nonsense. Have you ever read Daniel or the book of the Maccabees?

John of Patmos is writing first century history, not prophecy.

It is prophecy. The last and latter days are spoke of. As Jesus said, those who have eyes to see and see and ears to head and hear when it came to Isaiah would understand. Same with all the prophets. There is the latter day Church and the land of Israel back and you cannot see.

 

[Cougarbear]

They probably had no education either to fall for such nonsense. Have you ever read Daniel or the book of the Maccabees?

John of Patmos is writing first century history, not prophecy.

I was Jewish and versed in the OT for 24 years. I have been a baptized member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 46 years. I've read the OT many, many times. I've even read the book of the Maccabees (uninspired). What are you talking about? No, you are so full of it. You lack humility to be able to understand the revelations of John, the apostles and prophets. You deny the God of Israel. Here, watch this:

 

[surada]

It is prophecy. The last and latter days are spoke of. As Jesus said, those who have eyes to see and see and ears to head and hear when it came to Isaiah would understand. Same with all the prophets. There is the latter day Church and the land of Israel back and you cannot see.

Isaiah is not about Jesus. It's about Israel. Try reading it.

 

[Cougarbear]

Isaiah is not about Jesus. It's about Israel. Try reading it.

Yes it is. The OT is 100% about Jesus because it also includes Jehovah who is Jesus. It’s about Jesus dealings with Israel and Judah yesterday, today and forever. It’s about his latter day (today) Church, doctrine and signs like the Book of Mormon (chapter 29). You have no eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[surada]

Yes it is. The OT is 100% about Jesus because it also includes Jehovah who is Jesus. It’s about Jesus dealings with Israel and Judah yesterday, today and forever. It’s about his latter day (today) Church, doctrine and signs like the Book of Mormon (chapter 29). You have no eyes to see and ears to hear.

Sorry. Isaiah is about God's servant Israel.

norwegen

Like Hosea... God calls Israel son. Joseph Smith wasn't well educated.
.
Jesus and others in the New Testament borrowed from the Old Testament.

Like they borrowed "Why hast thou forsaken me" from King David.

 

[luiza]

What is wrong with you people .?
Surely you see how fast Cult Christians are dying off and you understand the hatred that is building against you because of 2000 years of lies and deceit .
What do you think is to be gained by raising Topics like these , showing that you remain clinically unwell and inviting those who are sick of you to find even more drastic ways to clean up the planet .
If you are not careful , you will all be congregated into holding camps and left to die .
Just carry on with your quaint beliefs but do it silently and avoid your last days being ultra unpleasant and your deaths possibly more violent than necessary .

 

[Cougarbear]

Sorry. Isaiah is about God's servant Israel.

norwegen

Like Hosea... God calls Israel son. Joseph Smith wasn't well educated.
.
Jesus and others in the New Testament borrowed from the Old Testament.

Like they borrowed "Why hast thou forsaken me" from King David.

You are clueless. The book in chapter 29 has nothing to do with OT Israel. If so, tell us what the book is and where I can read it. If not, then admit you are wrong. And, Chapter 53 is all about Jesus Christ.

 

[surada]

You are clueless. The book in chapter 29 has nothing to do with OT Israel. If so, tell us what the book is and where I can read it. If not, then admit you are wrong. And, Chapter 53 is all about Jesus Christ.

Nothing in Isaiah is about Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel. God calls Israel his servant.

Letters to the Editor: Scofield Bible Had Big Effect on United States; Take Action to Change Federal Government - The Daily Chronicle

Scofield Bible Had Big Effect on United States To the editor: In today’s marketplace, speaking the truth can be considered a revolutionary act and in some cases suicidal. That being said, as …

www.chronline.com

 

[Cougarbear]

Nothing in Isaiah is about Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel. God calls Israel his servant.

Letters to the Editor: Scofield Bible Had Big Effect on United States; Take Action to Change Federal Government - The Daily Chronicle

Scofield Bible Had Big Effect on United States To the editor: In today’s marketplace, speaking the truth can be considered a revolutionary act and in some cases suicidal. That being said, as …

www.chronline.com

That’s because you don’t believe in God and Jesus is the son of God. I recognize this because I believe and know Jesus is the son of God. Sorry you are clueless.