Zone1 Perhaps the most compelling prophesy in human history.

[Cougarbear]

She is a Preterist, a strange/marginal off shoot of the fringe Christianity.

It helps those who aren’t going to repent and continue to live their lives of sin. They destroy the prophets so they don’t have to think about their sins and change their ways.

 

[Red Front]

Daniel 9:24-27​

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New International Version​

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24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Let me guess, you can't make hides or tails out of it, right?

Right.

The term Anointed one is in reference to the Messiah because that is the translation of Messiah. When looking in the OT, we find this a handful of places, but most of them are in reference to anointing kings of Israel like Saul and David. Why is this important? It is important because all other Messianic prophesies are interpreted as being Messianic in origin. However, there is no need for interpretation here because Messiah is spelled out for us.

This is the only verifiable futuristic reference to a coming Messiah or anointed one. In fact, it is a calendar for the coming Messiah that Christians believe was Christ.

The first Christian on record that made the observation that this was a calendar for the coming Messiah appears to have been Justin Martyr who lived from 153 to 165 AD. What is strange, however, is that he never made any written explanation as to calculating the time of the Daniel prophesy to the time of Jesus.

Then came Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 180) who also associated the verse with the calendar for Christ but failed to give us an explanation of the calculation.

However, Clement of Alexandria (ca. A.D. 200) gave it a go as he was the first Christian writer to explain the time periods in Daniel 9, although he was a bit vague about the details. For him:

• • The “most holy” one (Dan 9:24) is Jesus Christ.
  • The 490 years began with Cyrus.
  • The first seven weeks (49 years) were the period of the construction of the temple.
  • The 62 weeks led up to the first advent of Christ.
  • The final week includes Nero’s erection of an “abomination” in Jerusalem as well as the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70.

Clement, therefore, included both Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem in the 490 years. But this implies a gap between the first 69 weeks and the last week.

From then on, there have been, and continue to be, a myriad of Christian theologians who tried their hand at the calculations, which was difficult for various reasons. First off, the wording in Daniel is weird as they used strange verbiage to describe the passing of time. Secondly, the Jewish calendar Daniel used was different from the Gregorian calendar we all use today. For example, the Jewish calendar has 360 days and ours has 365 days. Then factor in the leap year problem. Not only do you have to factor them in, not all centuries on the Gregorian calendar had leap years as the Gregorian calendar therefore omits three leap days every 400 years. And lastly, the original translation was in Hebrew. Only those who were experts in Hebrew had no problem with the wording, or the calendar. So, over the years the calculations seem to have been getting better and better as theologians build off each other's findings and interpretations.

So, what did Jewish scholars say about the scripture? After all, they were the experts, right?

Maimonides, who lived from (1138–1204) was the most preeminent Rabbinical medieval philosopher in history, had this to say about the verse.

"Daniel has made known to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of the Messiah's coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah." (Igeret Teimen, Chapter 3. p.24)

Likewise, the Sanhedrin wrote, "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people (Sanhedrin, 97b)

Sounds to me like this verse is a hot potato with Jewish scribes. In fact, a rabbi by the name of Leopold Cohn, who was also a rabbi born in Berezna, Hungary in the mid 1800s was also fascinated with the calendar. It all began as Cohn recited his morning devotions that involved the 12th article of the Jewish creed which declares, "I believe with a perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah and, though he tarries, yet will I wait daily for his coming." So, Cohn got to wondering what was meant by the Messiah having to tarry or wait to come. He was then directed to the teachings of non-other than Maimonides, who was convinced from Daniel 9 that the Messiah should have come, at least by the year 1138, but did not for whatever reason. Naturally, he did not provide us with his calculation. What a shame.

Cohn was told by his superiors that the Messiah delayed his coming because of the sinfulness of Israel. In other words, God changed his mind. However, Cohn did not buy it, as he calculated the calendar for the coming Messiah himself and said it pointed to the time of Jesus. Cohn then ended up giving up his entire career as a rabbi and came to America to start the Jews for Jesus movement.

Jewish rabbis debunked your Christian claim a long time ago:

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The Jews have been debunking your silly Christian claims, for centuries. Christians like you do nothing more than rip Hebrew verses out of context and mistranslate them. No one who does a little homework, will fall for your deceptive, silly arguments.

 

[Votto]

Jewish rabbis debunked your Christian claim a long time ago:

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The Jews have been debunking your silly Christian claims, for centuries. Christians like you do nothing more than rip Hebrew verses out of context and mistranslate them. No one who does a little homework, will fall for your deceptive, silly arguments.

I took the time to write out my thoughts on the matter, why can't you?

Write a synopsis of your point as I'm not watching all those videos.

 

[surada]

You are the charlatan. You have no proof of your statements. You don’t even know what a fortune teller is when speaking of prophets, seers and revelators.

The charlatans are running schools for prophets in Atlanta. You probably don't know what a prophet is or their function in the community.

 

[surada]

It helps those who aren’t going to repent and continue to live their lives of sin. They destroy the prophets so they don’t have to think about their sins and change their ways.

Preterism is much, much older than the Mormon church.. particularly partial preterism.

Prophets aren't future tellers.

 

[surada]

I took the time to write out my thoughts on the matter, why can't you?

Write a synopsis of your point as I'm not watching all those videos.

The book of Daniel was written in 164 BC. The story is set hundreds of years earlier in Babylon. It a fanciful history. Isaiah was writing about Israel not Jesus.

Jeremiah is also not writing about Jesus.

Cyrus was an anointed king not the Jewish Messiah.

 

[crossbody]

I was Jewish and versed in the OT for 24 years. I have been a baptized member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 46 years. I've read the OT many, many times. I've even read the book of the Maccabees (uninspired). What are you talking about? No, you are so full of it. You lack humility to be able to understand the revelations of John, the apostles and prophets. You deny the God of Israel. Here, watch this:

You've done a lot of studies on the scriptures, congratulations. Are you familiar with any specific OT prophesies unfolding from that shadow, and coming to light in the NT as well as in the natural modern world today?

 

[Cougarbear]

The charlatans are running schools for prophets in Atlanta. You probably don't know what a prophet is or their function in the community.

!!! As stated clearly in the Bible prophets are messengers who relay God’s doctrines, Commandments and Laws to His people at various times on earth. They also can be apostles, seers and revelators. Today, the Prophet speaks to the world as well since Israel is spread through all seeds of the earth.