#OWS Signs

[Jarhead]

It probably should have read

. I did not read my contract and got a house way above what I can afford. Why dont you just forgive my loans so I can get this house for free

Or even better said...

"It is not my fault that you did not know that I lied on my mortgage application. It is not my fault that I signed that application once at the beginning and four more times at the closing of the loan and when I signed it there was a disclaimer that said that I was swearing to the accuracy of the information I offered to the best of my knowledge. And since it is not my fault that I lied and you believed me then you should go to jail and I should be considered a victim."

 

[Jarhead]

Looks like she is calling out Barney Frank. He is the guy who allowed Fanny and Freddy to do that shit.

Fanny and Freddie have never once issued any mortgage-backed securities.

Another reading-comprehension-challenged poster, it would seem, who can't understand the difference between a mortgage-backed SECURITY and a MORTGAGE.

No they did not. They are not traders.

However...

They are underwriters.

Enough siad about that.

 

[grunt11b]

Loan officers were getting commisions on the number and size of the loans they wrote.

So they didn't give two shits if the loan was going to end up in default.

And why would they? It's not the job to make people responsible, it's the buyers responsibility to make sure they can afford the loan, the loan officers only job is to sell the loan. Noone stood there with a gun to anyones head forcing them to sign that loan paperwork.

That's all well and good, but at the end of the day, it's still the bank that's on the hook for the money and it's incumbent upon them to make sure the borrower can repay in a timely fashion.

You are 100% correct, but that doesn't mean that the individual is not responsible for there end of the bargain also.

 

[Dragon]

Or even better said...

"It is not my fault that you did not know that I lied on my mortgage application.

Good grief, you guys.

That sign is about mortgage-backed SECURITIES.

IT IS NOT ABOUT MORTGAGES.

Jeez . . .

 

[Dragon]

No they did not. They are not traders.

However...

They are underwriters.

Enough siad about that.

Apparently not. If Fannie and Freddy did not issue any mortgage-backed securities, which you have just acknowledged that they didn't, then obviously they had NOTHING to do with what that sign is talking about. Right?

By the way, someone signing for a mortgage ALSO has nothing to do with mortgage-backed securities.

 

[Jarhead]

Or even better said...

"It is not my fault that you did not know that I lied on my mortgage application.

Good grief, you guys.

That sign is about mortgage-backed SECURITIES.

IT IS NOT ABOUT MORTGAGES.

Jeez . . .

Those MBS's would not have existed if it werent for the people lying on their loan applications.

So good grief to you who doesnt care what causes something....all you care about is the end result.

Cause and affect....read up on it.


lol...and yet you will be the first one out there saying that demand for products is what creates jobs.

Come on pal...stay consistant.

 

[Jarhead]

Loan officers were getting commisions on the number and size of the loans they wrote.

So they didn't give two shits if the loan was going to end up in default.

And why would they? It's not the job to make people responsible, it's the buyers responsibility to make sure they can afford the loan, the loan officers only job is to sell the loan. Noone stood there with a gun to anyones head forcing them to sign that loan paperwork.

That's all well and good, but at the end of the day, it's still the bank that's on the hook for the money and it's incumbent upon them to make sure the borrower can repay in a timely fashion.

and that is all fine and well, but at the end of the day, the mortgage application is deemed an affidavit when you sign it...a total of four times.....and swearing to the validity of the information to the best of your knowledge.

So it seems that the banks trusted people to be honest....yet they lied....and now the banks are being villified for not being completely honest about the loans.

So where is the villifying of the people that lied?

Why arent those people being brought up on charges for lying on an affidavit?

Oh yeah.....I forgot......less wealthy people are allowed to lie.

This is the New America.

 

[Dragon]

Those MBS's would not have existed if it werent for the people lying on their loan applications.

Untrue.

So good grief to you who doesnt care what causes something....all you care about is the end result.

The end result was a collapse of the financial sector far, far out of proportion to the collapse of mortgages, all due to the fact that the banks took mortgage debt and gambled with it, as they were allowed to do because of the repeal of Glass-Steagal.

The housing market had a bubble. The bubble burst. Mortgages were defaulted on. If the problem lay with the mortgages themselves, it would have stopped there, and no serious damage would have been done to the economy. But because the mortgage debt had been used by the banks to leverage additional money-making instruments, those crashed when the mortgages were defaulted, and the economy went into a tailspin.

If you're going to talk about cause and effect, you need to identify the real cause correctly. You have not done that; in fact, what you have done is to put forth a scapegoat that can divert attention from the real culprits.

The sign is also alleging deliberate misdeeds by the vendors of MBSs, in that it says they knew those instruments were going to fail. I don't know if that's true or not, but what I do know is enough to indict the big banks, and the federal government for repealing the regulations that used to keep this kind of crap from happening. Those are the real bad-guys here, not people who defaulted on their mortgages.

 

[Jarhead]

Those MBS's would not have existed if it werent for the people lying on their loan applications.

Untrue.

So good grief to you who doesnt care what causes something....all you care about is the end result.

The end result was a collapse of the financial sector far, far out of proportion to the collapse of mortgages, all due to the fact that the banks took mortgage debt and gambled with it, as they were allowed to do because of the repeal of Glass-Steagal.

The housing market had a bubble. The bubble burst. Mortgages were defaulted on. If the problem lay with the mortgages themselves, it would have stopped there, and no serious damage would have been done to the economy. But because the mortgage debt had been used by the banks to leverage additional money-making instruments, those crashed when the mortgages were defaulted, and the economy went into a tailspin.

If you're going to talk about cause and effect, you need to identify the real cause correctly. You have not done that; in fact, what you have done is to put forth a scapegoat that can divert attention from the real culprits.

The sign is also alleging deliberate misdeeds by the vendors of MBSs, in that it says they knew those instruments were going to fail. I don't know if that's true or not, but what I do know is enough to indict the big banks, and the federal government for repealing the regulations that used to keep this kind of crap from happening. Those are the real bad-guys here, not people who defaulted on their mortgages.

Debating you is a waste of time. You have an immature approach and you do not think things out with an open mind.

Without people lying on their mortgage applications, no one would have been able to use that debt as leverage.

The bottom line...withoput people lying on their mortgage application, the rest would not have been able to happen.

Stop reading left wing blogs and start applying some logic.

You look silly.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

She's protesting Fannie & Freddie?

Study Finds 'Extensive' Fraud at Fannie Mae

By Kathleen Day
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 24, 2006Fannie Mae engaged in "extensive financial fraud" over six years by doctoring earnings so executives could collect hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses, federal officials said yesterday in a report that portrayed a company determined to play by its own rules."

Study Finds 'Extensive' Fraud at Fannie Mae

 

[FuelRod]

 

[Synthaholic]

Ultimately, it is your responsibility to determine what you are capable of purchasing. Stop passing responsibility for your decisions off on other people.

So if a doctor tells you you are fine, then you find out that he should have seen your cancer, it's your fault?

That depends, did the doctor sign a contract saying that you do not have cancer? If not, then he is not liable for that mistake. However, if you sign a contract agreeing to make all payments towards a house you are then liable to make those payments.

No shit, Sherlock. That's not the argument.

 

[Synthaholic]

She's protesting Fannie & Freddie?

Study Finds 'Extensive' Fraud at Fannie Mae

By Kathleen Day
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 24, 2006Fannie Mae engaged in "extensive financial fraud" over six years by doctoring earnings so executives could collect hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses, federal officials said yesterday in a report that portrayed a company determined to play by its own rules."

Study Finds 'Extensive' Fraud at Fannie Mae

Republicans controlled the government. They are responsible. Barney Frank was in the minority.

 

[Dragon]

Without people lying on their mortgage applications, no one would have been able to use that debt as leverage.

First off, that's not true; most of the mortgages that defaulted didn't involve anyone lying about anything. Secondly, without the repeal of Glass-Steagal, no one would have been able to use the debt as leverage, and that's more important.

Mortgage are, from time to time, going to fail. Housing bubbles will sometimes happen, and when they burst, LOTS of mortgages will fail. When we erect a rickety structure of financial instruments on top of them, we are simply asking for this to happen. What's really at fault here? That some mortgages failed? No, it's the fact that that rickety structure was built at all.

We can have housing bubbles pop and people's mortgages go into default without it crashing the economy. But we can't gamble like that with such a large percentage of the assets of major financial institutions without it coming back to bite us from time to time.

As always, pointless and childish personal insults have been snipped as unworthy of a response.

 

[Jarhead]

Without people lying on their mortgage applications, no one would have been able to use that debt as leverage.

First off, that's not true; most of the mortgages that defaulted didn't involve anyone lying about anything. Secondly, without the repeal of Glass-Steagal, no one would have been able to use the debt as leverage, and that's more important.

Mortgage are, from time to time, going to fail. Housing bubbles will sometimes happen, and when they burst, LOTS of mortgages will fail. When we erect a rickety structure of financial instruments on top of them, we are simply asking for this to happen. What's really at fault here? That some mortgages failed? No, it's the fact that that rickety structure was built at all.

We can have housing bubbles pop and people's mortgages go into default without it crashing the economy. But we can't gamble like that with such a large percentage of the assets of major financial institutions without it coming back to bite us from time to time.

As always, pointless and childish personal insults have been snipped as unworthy of a response.

bold....wrong....NINJA loans were a major issue.
The other issue were those that re-fid tasking the low teaser rates and believing they will simply re-fi again when the teaser rate expires...but they never expected to have negative equity and not be able to re-fi.

SO what do we have...

People lied
People gambled
Fannie ignored
Banks bundled

All got screwed

But alas, there are those such as you that simply want to blame the banks.

Go for it.

 

[Dragon]

bold....wrong....NINJA loans were a major issue.

Do you have any hard evidence of this? Researching the subprime mortgage crisis, I couldn't find any indication of large-scale fraud by either borrowers or lenders.

In any case, as I said, if a rash of defaulted mortgages had been our only problem, there would have been no problem economy-wide. No banks would have failed because of that, and defaulted mortgages will happen from time to time, no matter what we do.

Look, you had a structure of MBS and derivatives built on top of mortgages. If Glass-Steagal had remained in effect, none of that would have happened. The failure of mortgages wasn't preventable; the failure of all these derivatives WAS preventable, by preventing them from being issued in the first place.

So what do you blame? The ordinary and expected occurrence of mortgages going into default when a housing bubble bursts? Or the extraordinary and formerly-forbidden occurrence of an immense structure of securities being built on top of them that fell along with the mortgages?

The answer seems pretty obvious.

 

[Jarhead]

bold....wrong....NINJA loans were a major issue.

Do you have any hard evidence of this? Researching the subprime mortgage crisis, I couldn't find any indication of large-scale fraud by either borrowers or lenders.

In any case, as I said, if a rash of defaulted mortgages had been our only problem, there would have been no problem economy-wide. No banks would have failed because of that, and defaulted mortgages will happen from time to time, no matter what we do.

Look, you had a structure of MBS and derivatives built on top of mortgages. If Glass-Steagal had remained in effect, none of that would have happened. The failure of mortgages wasn't preventable; the failure of all these derivatives WAS preventable, by preventing them from being issued in the first place.

So what do you blame? The ordinary and expected occurrence of mortgages going into default when a housing bubble bursts? Or the extraordinary and formerly-forbidden occurrence of an immense structure of securities being built on top of them that fell along with the mortgages?

The answer seems pretty obvious.

You seem to believe that the mortgage failure rate that ocurred (and still ocurring) was nothing beyond normal.
Foreclosures are at an all time high.
Lending fraud? I agree...there was none.
Borrower fraud? Ran rampant......people were lying left and right on those applications.
why are they not being prosecuted? I suggest you dig deeper into what is really happening.

First off.....Banks were bailed out
WHat did they have to do in return?
Waive their right to have those that lied on the applications prosecuted.

Or...we can go with the little bits that your friends in the media have offered up.

You know what I mean...

"those evil greedy financial institutions are to blame for all of our woes"

Look....I know the lending industry quite well. My wife is a settlement attorney. Sure, you dont need to beleive me...I really dont care. She saw this meltdown coming years before and warned anyone she could to NOT get themselves in a situation where they are forced to refinance due to rate spikes...in other words...she suggested to all to take the fixed rate unless they had 1/3 debt of current appraised value....for she knew they would likely find themselves in a negative equity situation and unable to refi.

This issue is a lot deeper than the media is letting you know about.

 

[Dragon]

You seem to believe that the mortgage failure rate that ocurred (and still ocurring) was nothing beyond normal.

I didn't say that. What I did say was that 1) it was not preventable, and 2) by itself, it would not have caused the financial collapse.

Borrower fraud? Ran rampant......people were lying left and right on those applications.

I asked you for evidence of this. Do you have any? Lying on a mortgage application is fraud, a criminal offense. Have these crimes been prosecuted? You said that a condition of the TARP program was the holders of mortgages agreeing not to pursue fraud charges. Do you have any evidence of this? I look up TARP and I don't find that condition at all.

This issue is a lot deeper than the media is letting you know about.

Mysterious statements like this don't do you any good, you know. They don't change the fact that the ENTIRE amount of ALL the mortgages foreclosed could not have caused the collapse of the financial industry. They don't change the fact that, prior to Glass-Steagal being repealed, what we see now would have been impossible, no matter what happened with the mortgages.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I never quite understood what is anti-semetic about saying "Jewish Bankers" and the like? I have a black mailman but saying it doesnt make me hate blacks...

The reason why it's ok to pick on Jews is because Jews are not on the list of Liberal Politically correct protected classes.

What is anti semetic about saying someone is a Jewish banker? And why is saying someone is a Jewish banker qualifies as being "picked on" by you?

What I gather from the silence is some people just scream "anti-Semite" to anything that contains the word Jewish. *shrug*

 

[Liability]

SOME people attempt to hide their actual anti-Jewish form of antisemitism behind the convenient (but dishonest) veil of opposition to "Zionism."