One American Muslim’s reflection on the 4th of July celebration

[Sunni Man]

At the very least your deceit has helped to prove the wisdom of the God of the Bible that you hate in giving the command to refrain from the vile and contaminating flesh of teeming vermin who go down on all fours.

^^^ Perfect example that illegal drugs can fry the brain.......

 

[Osomir]

I don't ignore anything. I can tell you the stories of women, the silent crowd you are referring to, how they get oppressed by the islamist MAJORITY.

Some of the worst places in the world for women's rights are Christian majority countries, some are Muslim as well, and India also has a very poor rural track record 9the largest number of child brides in the world for example and heavy honor killing ratios and domestic abuse / rape).

The plight of women knows all religions and none. The Middle East tends to score much higher than say Sub-Saharan Africa. You are focusing a little too narrowly i think.

If they don't wear headscarf, they are labeled as whores, just like how ALL woman in westerns countries are considered as WHORES by islamists. That is the fact of islam, islam is brutal even to muslims themselves.

We used to do the same thing here in the US, every country and society faces these issues concerning gender and modesty. it isn't unique at all to Islam.

Be smart; why do you think muslims are flooding to west??? Don't you see??? THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY!!!

if Islam has to be that way then how could the people "running away from it" be Muslims? See you are once again ignoring the stories, methods of practice, and expressions of faith of a large portion of the global Islamic population.

 

[Pogo]

I don't ignore anything. I can tell you the stories of women, the silent crowd you are referring to, how they get oppressed by the islamist MAJORITY.

Some of the worst places in the world for women's rights are Christian majority countries, some are Muslim as well, and India also has a very poor rural track record 9the largest number of child brides in the world for example and heavy honor killing ratios and domestic abuse / rape).

The plight of women knows all religions and none. The Middle East tends to score much higher than say Sub-Saharan Africa. You are focusing a little too narrowly i think.

If they don't wear headscarf, they are labeled as whores, just like how ALL woman in westerns countries are considered as WHORES by islamists. That is the fact of islam, islam is brutal even to muslims themselves.

We used to do the same thing here in the US, every country and society faces these issues concerning gender and modesty. it isn't unique at all to Islam.

Actually we used to do the same thing in Europe, but we didn't label them whores; we labeled them "witches" in league with the "devil", sat them in sadistic torture devices that would crush their bones or squeeze their limbs until they literally popped open, and then we tied them to a stake in the town square and burned them alive while their children were forced to watch. Which is way more humane that beheading.

And that's how we conclude "it's all the Qu'ran's fault".

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.

 

[alpine]

I don't ignore anything. I can tell you the stories of women, the silent crowd you are referring to, how they get oppressed by the islamist MAJORITY.

Some of the worst places in the world for women's rights are Christian majority countries, some are Muslim as well, and India also has a very poor rural track record 9the largest number of child brides in the world for example and heavy honor killing ratios and domestic abuse / rape).

The plight of women knows all religions and none. The Middle East tends to score much higher than say Sub-Saharan Africa. You are focusing a little too narrowly i think.

If they don't wear headscarf, they are labeled as whores, just like how ALL woman in westerns countries are considered as WHORES by islamists. That is the fact of islam, islam is brutal even to muslims themselves.

We used to do the same thing here in the US, every country and society faces these issues concerning gender and modesty. it isn't unique at all to Islam.

Be smart; why do you think muslims are flooding to west??? Don't you see??? THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY!!!

if Islam has to be that way then how could the people "running away from it" be Muslims? See you are once again ignoring the stories, methods of practice, and expressions of faith of a large portion of the global Islamic population.

So you really think people chose their religion? They just wake up one day and claim they are devoted muslims?

Reality is, as always, much more different than what you would speculate.

You born as a muslim. I know a lot of muslims hating islam, because they have been pressured by it for whole their lives. But still, they call themselves muslims, because like the majority of the rest of the world, they need a religion. But since islam does NOT allow freedom of religion, when they claim they are muslims, they have to fit in the narrow description of what a muslim is, that is written in a book, that claimed to be the words of god, that can never be changed in any condition what so ever.

But in the USA, you can be a muslim who drinks alcohol, or watches porn, or enjoy the sunlight with her bikini etc etc etc.

Can you understand this difference? Can you realize what islam does to a muslim that it can reach to? When you are in reach of islam, of course you will be a devoted muslim, it is not allowed to be otherwise. Thats why you see muslims RUNNING AWAY to your society of freedom...

 

[alpine]

I don't ignore anything. I can tell you the stories of women, the silent crowd you are referring to, how they get oppressed by the islamist MAJORITY.

Some of the worst places in the world for women's rights are Christian majority countries, some are Muslim as well, and India also has a very poor rural track record 9the largest number of child brides in the world for example and heavy honor killing ratios and domestic abuse / rape).

The plight of women knows all religions and none. The Middle East tends to score much higher than say Sub-Saharan Africa. You are focusing a little too narrowly i think.

If they don't wear headscarf, they are labeled as whores, just like how ALL woman in westerns countries are considered as WHORES by islamists. That is the fact of islam, islam is brutal even to muslims themselves.

We used to do the same thing here in the US, every country and society faces these issues concerning gender and modesty. it isn't unique at all to Islam.

Actually we used to do the same thing in Europe, but we didn't label them whores; we labeled them "witches" in league with the "devil", sat them in sadistic torture devices that would crush their bones or squeeze their limbs until they literally popped open, and then we tied them to a stake in the town square and burned them alive while their children were forced to watch. Which is way more humane that beheading.

And that's how we conclude "it's all the Qu'ran's fault".

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.

And when was that? 2013?

Because this is the year islamists are beheading people and showing to your children on internet...

 

[Pogo]

Some of the worst places in the world for women's rights are Christian majority countries, some are Muslim as well, and India also has a very poor rural track record 9the largest number of child brides in the world for example and heavy honor killing ratios and domestic abuse / rape).

The plight of women knows all religions and none. The Middle East tends to score much higher than say Sub-Saharan Africa. You are focusing a little too narrowly i think.



We used to do the same thing here in the US, every country and society faces these issues concerning gender and modesty. it isn't unique at all to Islam.

Actually we used to do the same thing in Europe, but we didn't label them whores; we labeled them "witches" in league with the "devil", sat them in sadistic torture devices that would crush their bones or squeeze their limbs until they literally popped open, and then we tied them to a stake in the town square and burned them alive while their children were forced to watch. Which is way more humane that beheading.

And that's how we conclude "it's all the Qu'ran's fault".

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.

And when was that? 2013?

Because this is the year islamists are beheading people and showing to your children on internet...

Doesn't matter; it's the same book running the place now as it was then. In both cases.

 

[Osomir]

Some of the worst places in the world for women's rights are Christian majority countries, some are Muslim as well, and India also has a very poor rural track record 9the largest number of child brides in the world for example and heavy honor killing ratios and domestic abuse / rape).

The plight of women knows all religions and none. The Middle East tends to score much higher than say Sub-Saharan Africa. You are focusing a little too narrowly i think.



We used to do the same thing here in the US, every country and society faces these issues concerning gender and modesty. it isn't unique at all to Islam.

Actually we used to do the same thing in Europe, but we didn't label them whores; we labeled them "witches" in league with the "devil", sat them in sadistic torture devices that would crush their bones or squeeze their limbs until they literally popped open, and then we tied them to a stake in the town square and burned them alive while their children were forced to watch. Which is way more humane that beheading.

And that's how we conclude "it's all the Qu'ran's fault".

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.

And when was that? 2013?

Because this is the year islamists are beheading people and showing to your children on internet...

And Nigerian and Papua new Guinean Christians are still killing witches.

 

[alpine]

Actually we used to do the same thing in Europe, but we didn't label them whores; we labeled them "witches" in league with the "devil", sat them in sadistic torture devices that would crush their bones or squeeze their limbs until they literally popped open, and then we tied them to a stake in the town square and burned them alive while their children were forced to watch. Which is way more humane that beheading.

And that's how we conclude "it's all the Qu'ran's fault".

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.

And when was that? 2013?

Because this is the year islamists are beheading people and showing to your children on internet...

And Nigerian and Papua new Guinean Christians are still killing witches.

And the christian society supporting them with weapons and money while they are doing that?

 

[Osomir]

So you really think people chose their religion? They just wake up one day and claim they are devoted muslims?

Reality is, as always, much more different than what you would speculate.

This is a rather ironic statement coming from someone who claims to have left Islam.

And no, I think a lot of our religious beliefs are instilled in us based on where we were born. By why don't we see mass apostasy then once these immigrants "flee" the area like you did apparently? The available data wouldn't seem to support the picture you are painting.

You born as a muslim. I know a lot of muslims hating islam, because they have been pressured by it for whole their lives.

Right, you find the same with Christians and militant atheists here in the US.

But still, they call themselves muslims, because like the majority of the rest of the world, they need a religion. But since islam does NOT allow freedom of religion, when they claim they are muslims, they have to fit in the narrow description of what a muslim is, that is written in a book, that claimed to be the words of god, that can never be changed in any condition what so ever.

That's a pretty low vote of confidence for the will of individual people. I don't share it, or buy it. People aren't culturally religious due to weakness.

 

[Pogo]

Actually we used to do the same thing in Europe, but we didn't label them whores; we labeled them "witches" in league with the "devil", sat them in sadistic torture devices that would crush their bones or squeeze their limbs until they literally popped open, and then we tied them to a stake in the town square and burned them alive while their children were forced to watch. Which is way more humane that beheading.

And that's how we conclude "it's all the Qu'ran's fault".

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.

And when was that? 2013?

Because this is the year islamists are beheading people and showing to your children on internet...

And Nigerian and Papua new Guinean Christians are still killing witches.

That's true. You can see it on YouTube. Not a viewing I recommend for the squeamish, or even the normal.

This is the price of ignorance. Not the price of Christianity or the price of Islam; the price of mob mentality ignorance. Wherever some gadfly paints people into good and evil camps, there's gonna be trouble. To pick out some irrelevancy that said perps are all Christians or all Muslims or all brown-eyed righthanded males is at best to enable them and at worst to join them in the same demonization in which their targets are engaging.

 

[Osomir]

And when was that? 2013?

Because this is the year islamists are beheading people and showing to your children on internet...

And Nigerian and Papua new Guinean Christians are still killing witches.

And the christian society supporting them with weapons and money while they are doing that?

Sure. The War Criminal Charles Taylor was a Baptist Deacon, Malawi used to be a puritanical state under Hastings Banda, The church was instrumental in the establishment of South African Apartheid (it also was in ending it too). The two rape capitals of the world are majority Christian countries. Fighters in Kivu who are "soldiers of God" and who are required to be baptized has massacred entire towns with machetes. Now I don't think this is a reflection of Christian theology or how Christianity has to be (unlike your understanding of Islam). We can clearly see Christianity practiced differently and Christian populations living differently in different parts of the world, and we can also look at these specific areas in question and realize other underlying factors such as weak governmental institutions and low levels of economic development as factors.

 

[alpine]

So you really think people chose their religion? They just wake up one day and claim they are devoted muslims?

Reality is, as always, much more different than what you would speculate.

This is a rather ironic statement coming from someone who claims to have left Islam.

And no, I think a lot of our religious beliefs are instilled in us based on where we were born. By why don't we see mass apostasy then once these immigrants "flee" the area like you did apparently? The available data wouldn't seem to support the picture you are painting.

You born as a muslim. I know a lot of muslims hating islam, because they have been pressured by it for whole their lives.

Right, you find the same with Christians and militant atheists here in the US.

But still, they call themselves muslims, because like the majority of the rest of the world, they need a religion. But since islam does NOT allow freedom of religion, when they claim they are muslims, they have to fit in the narrow description of what a muslim is, that is written in a book, that claimed to be the words of god, that can never be changed in any condition what so ever.

Penalty for apostasy in islam is DEATH you idiot. You apparently have no clue what you are talking about

And I am stupid trying to get you some answers.

 

[Osomir]

So you really think people chose their religion? They just wake up one day and claim they are devoted muslims?

Reality is, as always, much more different than what you would speculate.

This is a rather ironic statement coming from someone who claims to have left Islam.

And no, I think a lot of our religious beliefs are instilled in us based on where we were born. By why don't we see mass apostasy then once these immigrants "flee" the area like you did apparently? The available data wouldn't seem to support the picture you are painting.



Right, you find the same with Christians and militant atheists here in the US.

But still, they call themselves muslims, because like the majority of the rest of the world, they need a religion. But since islam does NOT allow freedom of religion, when they claim they are muslims, they have to fit in the narrow description of what a muslim is, that is written in a book, that claimed to be the words of god, that can never be changed in any condition what so ever.

Penalty for apostasy in islam is DEATH you idiot. You apparently have no clue what you are talking about

And I am stupid trying to get you some answers.

the penalty for apostasy in western Europe isn't death there sport. So why not the mass incidence of apostasy among those who you claim have fled and escaped?

If it can't be done in the west then why aren't you dead? You're a walking contradiction to your own argument.

 

[alpine]

This is a rather ironic statement coming from someone who claims to have left Islam.

And no, I think a lot of our religious beliefs are instilled in us based on where we were born. By why don't we see mass apostasy then once these immigrants "flee" the area like you did apparently? The available data wouldn't seem to support the picture you are painting.



Right, you find the same with Christians and militant atheists here in the US.

Penalty for apostasy in islam is DEATH you idiot. You apparently have no clue what you are talking about

And I am stupid trying to get you some answers.

the penalty for apostasy in western Europe isn't death there sport. So why not the mass incidence of apostasy among those who you claim have fled and escaped?

If it can't be done in the west then why aren't you dead? You're a walking contradiction to your own argument.

Than you should put your words in a more clear way, rather than getting into my personal history.

Muslims don't go atheist, because they don'y have to. What in the world would be more comforting than enjoying the freedom of the west and believe in you will be blessed with virgins after death?

You think people become atheists because they hate something?

I don't know, the stuff you are putting up here totally doesn't make sense at all.

If you are in an islam country, run by islam, you have to be a proper muslim, just like it is written in the book.

But if you don't like that, then you flee, just like how many of the muslims in this country have done. They don't want to become atheists, why the hell they should once they secure all the greatest perks available?

Becoming atheist is something happens overnight too I guess.

And yet you can talk about contradictions. funnyyy....

 

[Osomir]

Muslims don't go atheist, because they don'y have to. What in the world would be more comforting than enjoying the freedom of the west and believe in you will be blessed with virgins after death?

That doesn't make much sense within the confines of your stated argument. If you claim that Muslims have to act a certain way then how can they be Muslims if they don't act that way? Furthermore if that is true then why would they want to continue being Muslims if they were trying to escape Islam itself by moving to Europe?

You think people become atheists because they hate something?

Why did you become an apostate? As an atheist myself my initial break with my Christian path was over theological concerns with my faith. I don't see how hatred would be a deterrent.

also if salvation is honestly the only thing they care about, then why don't see see greater levels of conversions to other faiths?

If you are in an islam country, run by islam, you have to be a proper muslim, just like it is written in the book.

And this is the problem with your position. You are utilizing a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. Islam is practiced and thought of differently all over the world.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Muslims don't go atheist, because they don'y have to. What in the world would be more comforting than enjoying the freedom of the west and believe in you will be blessed with virgins after death?

That doesn't make much sense within the confines of your stated argument. If you claim that Muslims have to act a certain way then how can they be Muslims if they don't act that way? Furthermore if that is true then why would they want to continue being Muslims if they were trying to escape Islam itself by moving to Europe?

You think people become atheists because they hate something?

Why did you become an apostate? As an atheist myself my initial break with my Christian path was over theological concerns with my faith. I don't see how hatred would be a deterrent.

also if salvation is honestly the only thing they care about, then why don't see see greater levels of conversions to other faiths?

If you are in an islam country, run by islam, you have to be a proper muslim, just like it is written in the book.

And this is the problem with your position. You are utilizing a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. Islam is practiced and thought of differently all over the world.

Since you are ignoring the other thread, do you support CAIR and Sunni man in their quest to make Sharia law the law of the land in the US?

 

[alpine]

Muslims don't go atheist, because they don'y have to. What in the world would be more comforting than enjoying the freedom of the west and believe in you will be blessed with virgins after death?

That doesn't make much sense within the confines of your stated argument. If you claim that Muslims have to act a certain way then how can they be Muslims if they don't act that way? Furthermore if that is true then why would they want to continue being Muslims if they were trying to escape Islam itself by moving to Europe?

You think people become atheists because they hate something?

Why did you become an apostate? As an atheist myself my initial break with my Christian path was over theological concerns with my faith. I don't see how hatred would be a deterrent.

also if salvation is honestly the only thing they care about, then why don't see see greater levels of conversions to other faiths?

If you are in an islam country, run by islam, you have to be a proper muslim, just like it is written in the book.

And this is the problem with your position. You are utilizing a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. Islam is practiced and thought of differently all over the world.

Haha, an islamist would consider majority of the muslims in this country "heretics", just like how a devoted catholic would do so for the christian majority in this country. But that doesn't mean anybody who has a personal jesus have to come out and claim they are apostles, does it?

I have never been a proper muslim, but I had to look like one.

In an islam state, you have 2 options, either be a proper muslim, or act like one.

Take ahmadiyya muslims in Pakistan, their story is heart breaking and shows the whole world what happens to you if you are not a proper muslim in an islam state. They are not considered as citizens so they can not vote, they don't get passports so they can not run away either. And they get MURDERED from left and right and nobody cares. They asked Pakistani muslims, "who you like to have as a neighbor", and interestingly, Pakistani muslims apparently can tolerate christians and jews and buddhists, but not ahmadiyya muslims.

So the reason islam is not bothering you, because you have never been a part of it.

 

[Osomir]

Since you are ignoring the other thread

Link to the other thread?

do you support Sunni man in their quest to make Sharia law the law of the land in the US?

Why on earth would I want Sharia law in the US? I'm not a Muslim.

My answer is an absolutely no. I strongly believe in my country's separation of church and state.

I'm not apposed to third party civil arbitration though based on non-criminal cases with the willing consent of both parties. (like we have in jewish communities with Beth Din courts).

 

[Osomir]

Haha, an islamist would consider majority of the muslims in this country "heretics", just like how a devoted catholic would do so for the christian majority in this country. But that doesn't mean anybody who has a personal jesus have to come out and claim they are apostles, does it?

I have never been a proper muslim, but I had to look like one.

In an islam state, you have 2 options, either be a proper muslim, or act like one.

Take ahmadiyya muslims in Pakistan, their story is heart breaking and shows the whole world what happens to you if you are not a proper muslim in an islam state. They are not considered as citizens so they can not vote, they don't get passports so they can not run away either. And they get MURDERED from left and right and nobody cares. They asked Pakistani muslims, "who you like to have as a neighbor", and interestingly, Pakistani muslims apparently can tolerate christians and jews and buddhists, but not ahmadiyya muslims.

So the reason islam is not bothering you, because you have never been a part of it.

You didn't answer my question. If Islam has to be the way you claim it does then how can people who don't practice that way still consider themselves Muslims? If they were truly running away from ISLAM itself then why would they continue to practice their religion in their own way after making good on their escape?

 

[alpine]

Haha, an islamist would consider majority of the muslims in this country "heretics", just like how a devoted catholic would do so for the christian majority in this country. But that doesn't mean anybody who has a personal jesus have to come out and claim they are apostles, does it?

I have never been a proper muslim, but I had to look like one.

In an islam state, you have 2 options, either be a proper muslim, or act like one.

Take ahmadiyya muslims in Pakistan, their story is heart breaking and shows the whole world what happens to you if you are not a proper muslim in an islam state. They are not considered as citizens so they can not vote, they don't get passports so they can not run away either. And they get MURDERED from left and right and nobody cares. They asked Pakistani muslims, "who you like to have as a neighbor", and interestingly, Pakistani muslims apparently can tolerate christians and jews and buddhists, but not ahmadiyya muslims.

So the reason islam is not bothering you, because you have never been a part of it.

You didn't answer my question. If Islam has to be the way you claim it does then how can people who don't practice that way still consider themselves Muslims? If they were truly running away from ISLAM itself then why would they continue to practice their religion in their own way after making good on their escape?

There are shit load of Iranians in this country who put their sheets aside when they made it to the US. You can ask them, why they still muslim and they condemn the islamic regime because they were pushing the hijab, which is written in the koran that woman should be wearing. Or ask the wive(s) of Saudi sheiks putting their hijab aside as soon as they land on an airport in a western state.

This alone shows you islam is not just a religion but all together an institution with rules, and very brutal and strict ones too.

I am not a muslim (anymore) so I can not answer to this question you repeatedly asking.

My point, they should not call themselves muslims. But they do. This is what you don't want to realize, reality doesn't fit logic, because your logic extends as much as your knowledge does, in which is not too far in this subject.