One American Muslim’s reflection on the 4th of July celebration

[Sunni Man]

Morocco was the first state to recognize the independence of the United States of America, and they signed the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship; first of it’s kind. Friesland, one of the seven United Provinces of the Dutch Republic, was the next to recognize American independence (February 26, 1782) and Tippu Sultan, the King of Mysore State (India) was the third. According to Dr. Range Gowda, Tippu Sultan’s historiographer, the congratulatory letter to America is preserved in a French Library.

The Pledge of Allegiance is one of the most cherished statements for Muslims, “One Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” There are several verses in Quraan that assert those values; it’s like coming home for Muslims.

The American way of rewarding merit appeals to Muslims: you can be who you want to be and many Muslims gloat about their ability to rise on the basis of their merit. The Koran emphasizes that no one but you are responsible for your behavior, you have the freedom to choose the right path or go astray but you alone are responsible for your actions and no one else will bear your burden.

The Prophet tells his own daughter that she will not get a free pass to paradise because she is a daughter of the prophet; she has to earn it on her own through good deeds to fellow beings; such is the Muslim emphasis placed on individual responsibility. These are the free market, democratic values celebrated by Americans.

Every immigrant in general and a Muslim in particular loves the idea that you are innocent until proven guilty. They were tired of being framed in the lands they came from; they see the wholesomeness of justice in America and they love America for it. An observant Muslim recites at least 17 times a day that God alone is the judge and we must refrain from judging others.


Happy July 4th of July

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-4th-of-july/2011/07/04/gHQAS4WdxH_blog.html

 

[Connery]

^^^^^
Nice prose, but not all was a smooth as the OP seems to portray.

Indeed, in 1785, Ambassador to Tripoli Sidi Haji Abdrahaman wrote the following to Thomas Jefferson: "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once." (see "American Peace Commissioners to John Jay," March 28, 1786, "Thomas Jefferson Papers," Series 1. General Correspondence. 1651–1827, Library of Congress. LoC: March 28, 1786 http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj1/005/0400/0430.jpg)

While the above speaks to the First Barbary war, nothing much has changed since.

 

[Sallow]

^^^^^
Nice prose, but not all was a smooth as the OP seems to portray.

Indeed, in 1785, Ambassador to Tripoli Sidi Haji Abdrahaman wrote the following to Thomas Jefferson: "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once." (see "American Peace Commissioners to John Jay," March 28, 1786, "Thomas Jefferson Papers," Series 1. General Correspondence. 1651–1827, Library of Congress. LoC: March 28, 1786 http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj1/005/0400/0430.jpg)

While the above speaks to the First Barbary war, nothing much has changed since.

You're kidding right?

It's amazing that you bring up the Barbary war which, wasn't much of a war at all. It was basically resolved when Jefferson decided enough was enough and purchased battleships to fight off pirates despite the objections of Conservatives.

Since then, Americans have decided, since the discovery of oil in the region, that the Middle East's natural resources belong to America. And has participated in soft imperialism.

 

[Connery]

^^^^^
Nice prose, but not all was a smooth as the OP seems to portray.

Indeed, in 1785, Ambassador to Tripoli Sidi Haji Abdrahaman wrote the following to Thomas Jefferson: "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once." (see "American Peace Commissioners to John Jay," March 28, 1786, "Thomas Jefferson Papers," Series 1. General Correspondence. 1651–1827, Library of Congress. LoC: March 28, 1786 http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj1/005/0400/0430.jpg)

While the above speaks to the First Barbary war, nothing much has changed since.

You're kidding right?

It's amazing that you bring up the Barbary war which, wasn't much of a war at all. It was basically resolved when Jefferson decided enough was enough and purchased battleships to fight off pirates despite the objections of Conservatives.

Since then, Americans have decided, since the discovery of oil in the region, that the Middle East's natural resources belong to America. And has participated in soft imperialism.

No, I am not kidding and the spirit which brought forth that war is very much alive. What I find amazing is that you deny reality...

 

[Sunni Man]

One theme I continually hear is, "Why don't the moderate muslims raise their voices and speak out".

So I start a thread about patriotic American muslims celebrating the 4th of July and talking about loving America and it's freedoms.


Yet the first post out of the gate starts by talking about a minor historical event that happened over 200 years ago. And ends with the words, "nothing much has changed since".


So it's no wonder most moderate muslims see it as futile to raise their hand and be counted.

Because their words will only be drowned out by the overwhelming sea of detractors and haters.

 

[hobelim]

One theme I continually hear is, "Why don't the moderate muslims raise their voices and speak out".

So I start a thread about patriotic American muslims celebrating the 4th of July and talking about loving America and it's freedoms.


Yet the first post out of the gate starts by talking about a minor historical event that happened over 200 years ago. And ends with the words, "nothing much has changed since".


So it's no wonder most moderate muslims see it as futile to raise their hand and be counted.

Because their words will only be drowned out by the overwhelming sea of detractors and haters.

Maybe this will help you understand.

The official teaching of the Catholic church is that homosexuality is a mortal sin that should not be tolerated. However many moderate Catholics they may be is it even possible that these so called moderates have any integrity at all while remaining Catholic and supporting the church which promotes intolerance as a fundamental religious duty?

Were there really any moderate Nazis or is 'moderate' just an easier term to live with than coward?

 

[longknife]

Thanks for your efforts to voice your views.

However, a lone voice among so many is not exactly the general opinion of Muslims.

Nice try.

 

[Sunni Man]

Thanks for your efforts to voice your views.

However, a lone voice among so many is not exactly the general opinion of Muslims.

Nice try.

This thread is only about American muslims.

Who are overwhelmingly patriotic and happy to live in the U.S.

But you would never know that because the media doesn't think that information is news worthy.

 

[Connery]

One theme I continually hear is, "Why don't the moderate muslims raise their voices and speak out".

So I start a thread about patriotic American muslims celebrating the 4th of July and talking about loving America and it's freedoms.


Yet the first post out of the gate starts by talking about a minor historical event that happened over 200 years ago. And ends with the words, "nothing much has changed since".


So it's no wonder most moderate muslims see it as futile to raise their hand and be counted.

Because their words will only be drowned out by the overwhelming sea of detractors and haters.

The OP brought up history, to do so and complain when more historical fact is raised is to attempt to portray an obfuscated view of that history. You cannot have it both ways. Should you have wished to discuss today that history would never have been raised.

It is not hate, it is fact.

 

[Dot Com]

ALL THREE monotheistic religions propagate hate & derision if you don't "see things their way"

Another reason I'm a card carrying atheist

 

[Sunni Man]

1) The facts are that the Islamic country of Morocco was the first state to recognize the independence of the United States of America.

2) And that American muslims overwhelmingly are happy to be U.S. citizens and many celebrate the 4th of July with their fellow country men.

Thus I find it difficult to believe that people want to turn these into a negative in order to bolster their personal agenda.

 

[longknife]

Thanks for your efforts to voice your views.

However, a lone voice among so many is not exactly the general opinion of Muslims.

Nice try.

This thread is only about American muslims.

Who are overwhelmingly patriotic and happy to live in the U.S.

But you would never know that because the media doesn't think that information is news worthy.

Maybe because American Muslims are said to be represented by CAIR, see Council on American?Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia claims to be their voice and it constantly seeks Sharia in every level of government, supports radical Islamists in foreign countries, and DOES NOT reflect the basic tenets of the USA!!!

 

[Connery]

1) The facts are that the Islamic country of Morocco was the first state to recognize the independence of the United States of America.

2) And that American muslims overwhelmingly are happy to be U.S. citizens and many celebrate the 4th of July with their fellow country men.

Thus I find it difficult to believe that people want to turn these into a negative in order to bolster their personal agenda.

I enjoy when you attempt to float your perspectives as fact. Establish your positions with sources Sunni Man, otherwise it is just blather. Nothing more.

 

[alan1]

1) The facts are that the Islamic country of Morocco was the first state to recognize the independence of the United States of America.

2) And that American muslims overwhelmingly are happy to be U.S. citizens and many celebrate the 4th of July with their fellow country men.

Thus I find it difficult to believe that people want to turn these into a negative in order to bolster their personal agenda.

Sorry, Sunni man, the recent history includes a group of Muslims that attacked this country on 9/11/2001. They killed thousands of innocent people, and that is a hard thing for us to forget or forgive.
After all, you don't see us forgiving the English for their dastardly deeds of the late 1700's, do you? Oh wait, we're allies with them now. Never mind.
Well shit, we didn't forgive the Germans for world war two, fucking Nazi's. Or the Japanese. Oh wait, we're allies with both them also. Never mind.
It's not like the US has ever attacked a Muslim nation, so why did they attack us. Oh wait, maybe we did screw with some Muslim nations at some time. Never mind.
Anyways, you get my point, right?

 

[Sunni Man]

Thanks for your efforts to voice your views.

However, a lone voice among so many is not exactly the general opinion of Muslims.

Nice try.

This thread is only about American muslims.

Who are overwhelmingly patriotic and happy to live in the U.S.

But you would never know that because the media doesn't think that information is news worthy.

Maybe because American Muslims are said to be represented by CAIR, see Council on American?Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia claims to be their voice and it constantly seeks Sharia in every level of government, supports radical Islamists in foreign countries, and DOES NOT reflect the basic tenets of the USA!!!

CAIR is just one of a couple of dozen muslim advocate organizations.

But for some reason the media likes to portray CAIR as the 'voice' of the American muslims; which it is not.

When in fact the vast majority of muslims do not have a membership in any Islamic front organization.

 

[Dot Com]

1) The facts are that the Islamic country of Morocco was the first state to recognize the independence of the United States of America.

2) And that American muslims overwhelmingly are happy to be U.S. citizens and many celebrate the 4th of July with their fellow country men.

Thus I find it difficult to believe that people want to turn these into a negative in order to bolster their personal agenda.

I enjoy when you attempt to float your perspectives as fact. Establish your positions with sources Sunni Man, otherwise it is just blather. Nothing more.

thats like proving there are moderate christians Lets ask koshergrrl or becki

 

[Connery]

1) The facts are that the Islamic country of Morocco was the first state to recognize the independence of the United States of America.

2) And that American muslims overwhelmingly are happy to be U.S. citizens and many celebrate the 4th of July with their fellow country men.

Thus I find it difficult to believe that people want to turn these into a negative in order to bolster their personal agenda.

Sorry, Sunni man, the recent history includes a group of Muslims that attacked this country on 9/11/2001. They killed thousands of innocent people, and that is a hard thing for us to forget or forgive.
After all, you don't see us forgiving the English for their dastardly deeds of the late 1700's, do you? Oh wait, we're allies with them now. Never mind.
Well shit, we didn't forgive the Germans for world war two, fucking Nazi's. Or the Japanese. Oh wait, we're allies with both them also. Never mind.
It's not like the US has ever attacked a Muslim nation, so why did they attack us. Oh wait, maybe we did screw with some Muslim nations at some time. Never mind.
Anyways, you get my point, right?

I see, when did this forgiveness take place for these "enemies"? Further as I pointed out the US was attacked first since you wish to bring history into the discussion, as well.

The latest attack by an American Mulsim was the Boston Marathon on April 15, 2013. Point is one article by an American Muslim which is shines a positive light on the situation does not whitewash the entire picture.

Enough "Milquetoast" logic alan1... Forgiveness and forgetting takes time and is prompted by proactive positive actions.

 

[alan1]

1) The facts are that the Islamic country of Morocco was the first state to recognize the independence of the United States of America.

2) And that American muslims overwhelmingly are happy to be U.S. citizens and many celebrate the 4th of July with their fellow country men.

Thus I find it difficult to believe that people want to turn these into a negative in order to bolster their personal agenda.

Sorry, Sunni man, the recent history includes a group of Muslims that attacked this country on 9/11/2001. They killed thousands of innocent people, and that is a hard thing for us to forget or forgive.
After all, you don't see us forgiving the English for their dastardly deeds of the late 1700's, do you? Oh wait, we're allies with them now. Never mind.
Well shit, we didn't forgive the Germans for world war two, fucking Nazi's. Or the Japanese. Oh wait, we're allies with both them also. Never mind.
It's not like the US has ever attacked a Muslim nation, so why did they attack us. Oh wait, maybe we did screw with some Muslim nations at some time. Never mind.
Anyways, you get my point, right?

I see, when did this forgiveness take place for these "enemies"? Further as I pointed out the US was attacked first since you wish to bring history into the discussion, as well.

The latest attack by an American Mulsim was the Boston Marathon on April 15, 2013. Point is one article by an American Muslim which is shines a positive light on the situation does not whitewash the entire picture.

Enough "Milquetoast" logic alan1... Forgiveness and forgetting takes time and is prompted by proactive positive actions.

Connery, I don't hold all Muslims responsible for the attack on 9/11/2001 just as I don't hold all Muslims responsible for the attack on 4/15/2013.
I do think that Muslims are more prone to attack and use terrorist actions. Sunni Man's posts indicate he is not the type of person to take that sort of action.
You say,

Further as I pointed out the US was attacked first..

Please state the date of the first attack.

 

[Sunni Man]

I see, when did this forgiveness take place for these "enemies"? Further as I pointed out the US was attacked first since you wish to bring history into the discussion, as well.

The latest attack by an American Mulsim was the Boston Marathon on April 15, 2013. Point is one article by an American Muslim which is shines a positive light on the situation does not whitewash the entire picture.

Enough "Milquetoast" logic alan1... Forgiveness and forgetting takes time and is prompted by proactive positive actions.

I do see your point Connery.

That all 7 million American muslims are guilty and should be viewed as enemies because of the actions of 2 foreign born muslims in Boston. (yes, one had become s citizen)

Sounds logical to me..........

 

[Connery]

I see, when did this forgiveness take place for these "enemies"? Further as I pointed out the US was attacked first since you wish to bring history into the discussion, as well.

The latest attack by an American Mulsim was the Boston Marathon on April 15, 2013. Point is one article by an American Muslim which is shines a positive light on the situation does not whitewash the entire picture.

Enough "Milquetoast" logic alan1... Forgiveness and forgetting takes time and is prompted by proactive positive actions.

I do see your point Connery.

That all 7 million American muslims are guilty and should be viewed as enemies because of the actions of 2 foreign born muslims in Boston. (yes, one had become s citizen)

Sounds logical to me..........

Nope, that is how you wish to interpret my statements. I point to facts for which I have supplied sources, the well intentioned musings can come after we all deal with a terrible situation domestic terrorism by an American Muslim. Since you have chosen the OP I am dealing with American Muslims, do not try to make me about to be the bad guy when you are poorly prepared to deal with the issue.