CDZ Ocean warming and the economy

[Wry Catcher]

Seafood's new normal: An ecosystem at risk

"The plight of urchins, abalones and the kelp forest is just one example of an extensive ongoing disruption of California’s coastal ecosystem — and the fisheries that depend on it — after several years of unusually warm ocean conditions and drought. Earlier this month, The Chronicle reported that scientists have discovered evidence in San Francisco Bay and its estuary of what is being called the planet’s sixth mass extinction, affecting species including chinook salmon and delta smelt."

Read the link above for more details.

 

[westwall]

Seafood's new normal: An ecosystem at risk

"The plight of urchins, abalones and the kelp forest is just one example of an extensive ongoing disruption of California’s coastal ecosystem — and the fisheries that depend on it — after several years of unusually warm ocean conditions and drought. Earlier this month, The Chronicle reported that scientists have discovered evidence in San Francisco Bay and its estuary of what is being called the planet’s sixth mass extinction, affecting species including chinook salmon and delta smelt."

Read the link above for more details.

Wow, i can't believe you fall for this silliness over and over and over again. When are you going to learn that you need to actually go to the SOURCE for the real facts.

Here you go, a little overview of the actual cause.



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

"Harmful Algal Bloom
The first major impact to the region occurred in August 2011 when a harmful algal bloom released a toxin into Sonoma County waters, killing large numbers of marine invertebrates. The California Fish and Game Commission responded to this unprecedented event by instituting a temporary emergency closure of the abalone fishery in Sonoma County, followed by reductions in the annual abalone catch limits starting in 2014. This event marked the beginning of a set of ecological stressors that would impact multiple invertebrate fisheries on California’s north coast.

Sea Star Wasting Disease
Two years later in 2013, Sea Star Wasting Diseasekilled large numbers of sea stars on the West Coast of North America, from Mexico to Alaska. Sea stars are important predators of invertebrates that live in the kelp forests. The loss of these predators added another stressor that would later contribute to a sea urchin population expansion.

Purple Sea Urchin Population Boom
CDFW researchers have discovered that purple sea urchin densities are now greater than 60 times their historic density in northern California. This unprecedented expansion of urchin populations spans hundreds of miles of coastline. Purple sea urchins are voracious consumers of kelp. In large numbers, these small but hardy herbivores can easily wipe out vast expanses of kelp and other algae, changing the landscape from a lush and diverse kelp forest ecosystem to what is known as an “urchin barren”.

More sunlight reaches the sea floor in urchin barrens, because the light is no longer filtered through thick fronds of kelp canopy and sub-canopy – similar to the way sunlight is filtered through a rain forest canopy on land. Fish and other species that normally hide in the shade of these fronds are no longer protected from the hungry eyes of larger predators.

And finally the "warm blob" associated with the El Nino, not a darned thing associated with the global warming (which isn't happening) you claim.

"Unprecedented Warm Water
The kelp forest ecosystem suffered another series of shocks in 2014 and 2015, when coastal water temperatures along the West Coast rocketed upwards due to a combination of oceanographic features: the “Warm Blob” in 2014, combined with a strong El Niñothat began in 2015. Kelp and many other marine species are very sensitive to changes in water temperature, and warm water holds few of the nutrients required for kelp growth."



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

 

[Wry Catcher]

Seafood's new normal: An ecosystem at risk

"The plight of urchins, abalones and the kelp forest is just one example of an extensive ongoing disruption of California’s coastal ecosystem — and the fisheries that depend on it — after several years of unusually warm ocean conditions and drought. Earlier this month, The Chronicle reported that scientists have discovered evidence in San Francisco Bay and its estuary of what is being called the planet’s sixth mass extinction, affecting species including chinook salmon and delta smelt."

Read the link above for more details.

Wow, i can't believe you fall for this silliness over and over and over again. When are you going to learn that you need to actually go to the SOURCE for the real facts.

Here you go, a little overview of the actual cause.



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

"Harmful Algal Bloom
The first major impact to the region occurred in August 2011 when a harmful algal bloom released a toxin into Sonoma County waters, killing large numbers of marine invertebrates. The California Fish and Game Commission responded to this unprecedented event by instituting a temporary emergency closure of the abalone fishery in Sonoma County, followed by reductions in the annual abalone catch limits starting in 2014. This event marked the beginning of a set of ecological stressors that would impact multiple invertebrate fisheries on California’s north coast.

Sea Star Wasting Disease
Two years later in 2013, Sea Star Wasting Diseasekilled large numbers of sea stars on the West Coast of North America, from Mexico to Alaska. Sea stars are important predators of invertebrates that live in the kelp forests. The loss of these predators added another stressor that would later contribute to a sea urchin population expansion.

Purple Sea Urchin Population Boom
CDFW researchers have discovered that purple sea urchin densities are now greater than 60 times their historic density in northern California. This unprecedented expansion of urchin populations spans hundreds of miles of coastline. Purple sea urchins are voracious consumers of kelp. In large numbers, these small but hardy herbivores can easily wipe out vast expanses of kelp and other algae, changing the landscape from a lush and diverse kelp forest ecosystem to what is known as an “urchin barren”.

More sunlight reaches the sea floor in urchin barrens, because the light is no longer filtered through thick fronds of kelp canopy and sub-canopy – similar to the way sunlight is filtered through a rain forest canopy on land. Fish and other species that normally hide in the shade of these fronds are no longer protected from the hungry eyes of larger predators.

And finally the "warm blob" associated with the El Nino, not a darned thing associated with the global warming (which isn't happening) you claim.

"Unprecedented Warm Water
The kelp forest ecosystem suffered another series of shocks in 2014 and 2015, when coastal water temperatures along the West Coast rocketed upwards due to a combination of oceanographic features: the “Warm Blob” in 2014, combined with a strong El Niñothat began in 2015. Kelp and many other marine species are very sensitive to changes in water temperature, and warm water holds few of the nutrients required for kelp growth."



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

And .... when writing a term paper one usually writes a conclusion based on evidence. You've offered evidence that something is afoot, but no hint as to what. We both understand that the ocean ecosystem has changed, and something, or many things are in play. Do you have an opinion on what is in play?

 

[westwall]

Seafood's new normal: An ecosystem at risk

"The plight of urchins, abalones and the kelp forest is just one example of an extensive ongoing disruption of California’s coastal ecosystem — and the fisheries that depend on it — after several years of unusually warm ocean conditions and drought. Earlier this month, The Chronicle reported that scientists have discovered evidence in San Francisco Bay and its estuary of what is being called the planet’s sixth mass extinction, affecting species including chinook salmon and delta smelt."

Read the link above for more details.

Wow, i can't believe you fall for this silliness over and over and over again. When are you going to learn that you need to actually go to the SOURCE for the real facts.

Here you go, a little overview of the actual cause.



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

"Harmful Algal Bloom
The first major impact to the region occurred in August 2011 when a harmful algal bloom released a toxin into Sonoma County waters, killing large numbers of marine invertebrates. The California Fish and Game Commission responded to this unprecedented event by instituting a temporary emergency closure of the abalone fishery in Sonoma County, followed by reductions in the annual abalone catch limits starting in 2014. This event marked the beginning of a set of ecological stressors that would impact multiple invertebrate fisheries on California’s north coast.

Sea Star Wasting Disease
Two years later in 2013, Sea Star Wasting Diseasekilled large numbers of sea stars on the West Coast of North America, from Mexico to Alaska. Sea stars are important predators of invertebrates that live in the kelp forests. The loss of these predators added another stressor that would later contribute to a sea urchin population expansion.

Purple Sea Urchin Population Boom
CDFW researchers have discovered that purple sea urchin densities are now greater than 60 times their historic density in northern California. This unprecedented expansion of urchin populations spans hundreds of miles of coastline. Purple sea urchins are voracious consumers of kelp. In large numbers, these small but hardy herbivores can easily wipe out vast expanses of kelp and other algae, changing the landscape from a lush and diverse kelp forest ecosystem to what is known as an “urchin barren”.

More sunlight reaches the sea floor in urchin barrens, because the light is no longer filtered through thick fronds of kelp canopy and sub-canopy – similar to the way sunlight is filtered through a rain forest canopy on land. Fish and other species that normally hide in the shade of these fronds are no longer protected from the hungry eyes of larger predators.

And finally the "warm blob" associated with the El Nino, not a darned thing associated with the global warming (which isn't happening) you claim.

"Unprecedented Warm Water
The kelp forest ecosystem suffered another series of shocks in 2014 and 2015, when coastal water temperatures along the West Coast rocketed upwards due to a combination of oceanographic features: the “Warm Blob” in 2014, combined with a strong El Niñothat began in 2015. Kelp and many other marine species are very sensitive to changes in water temperature, and warm water holds few of the nutrients required for kelp growth."



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

And .... when writing a term paper one usually writes a conclusion based on evidence. You've offered evidence that something is afoot, but no hint as to what. We both understand that the ocean ecosystem has changed, and something, or many things are in play. Do you have an opinion on what is in play?

What are you talking about. The link I provided lays out the cause of the kelp death chapter and verse. It is actually quite simple in it's simplicity. There is no global warming component to the tale at all. It is all a localized phenomena exacerbated by the El Nino, which, once again, has no relation to the supposed global warming..Which isn't happening anyway.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Seafood's new normal: An ecosystem at risk

"The plight of urchins, abalones and the kelp forest is just one example of an extensive ongoing disruption of California’s coastal ecosystem — and the fisheries that depend on it — after several years of unusually warm ocean conditions and drought. Earlier this month, The Chronicle reported that scientists have discovered evidence in San Francisco Bay and its estuary of what is being called the planet’s sixth mass extinction, affecting species including chinook salmon and delta smelt."

Read the link above for more details.

Wow, i can't believe you fall for this silliness over and over and over again. When are you going to learn that you need to actually go to the SOURCE for the real facts.

Here you go, a little overview of the actual cause.



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

"Harmful Algal Bloom
The first major impact to the region occurred in August 2011 when a harmful algal bloom released a toxin into Sonoma County waters, killing large numbers of marine invertebrates. The California Fish and Game Commission responded to this unprecedented event by instituting a temporary emergency closure of the abalone fishery in Sonoma County, followed by reductions in the annual abalone catch limits starting in 2014. This event marked the beginning of a set of ecological stressors that would impact multiple invertebrate fisheries on California’s north coast.

Sea Star Wasting Disease
Two years later in 2013, Sea Star Wasting Diseasekilled large numbers of sea stars on the West Coast of North America, from Mexico to Alaska. Sea stars are important predators of invertebrates that live in the kelp forests. The loss of these predators added another stressor that would later contribute to a sea urchin population expansion.

Purple Sea Urchin Population Boom
CDFW researchers have discovered that purple sea urchin densities are now greater than 60 times their historic density in northern California. This unprecedented expansion of urchin populations spans hundreds of miles of coastline. Purple sea urchins are voracious consumers of kelp. In large numbers, these small but hardy herbivores can easily wipe out vast expanses of kelp and other algae, changing the landscape from a lush and diverse kelp forest ecosystem to what is known as an “urchin barren”.

More sunlight reaches the sea floor in urchin barrens, because the light is no longer filtered through thick fronds of kelp canopy and sub-canopy – similar to the way sunlight is filtered through a rain forest canopy on land. Fish and other species that normally hide in the shade of these fronds are no longer protected from the hungry eyes of larger predators.

And finally the "warm blob" associated with the El Nino, not a darned thing associated with the global warming (which isn't happening) you claim.

"Unprecedented Warm Water
The kelp forest ecosystem suffered another series of shocks in 2014 and 2015, when coastal water temperatures along the West Coast rocketed upwards due to a combination of oceanographic features: the “Warm Blob” in 2014, combined with a strong El Niñothat began in 2015. Kelp and many other marine species are very sensitive to changes in water temperature, and warm water holds few of the nutrients required for kelp growth."



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

And .... when writing a term paper one usually writes a conclusion based on evidence. You've offered evidence that something is afoot, but no hint as to what. We both understand that the ocean ecosystem has changed, and something, or many things are in play. Do you have an opinion on what is in play?

What are you talking about. The link I provided lays out the cause of the kelp death chapter and verse. It is actually quite simple in it's simplicity. There is no global warming component to the tale at all. It is all a localized phenomena exacerbated by the El Nino, which, once again, has no relation to the supposed global warming..Which isn't happening anyway.

So you say. I side with the large percentage of scientists, not you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How much do we have to reduce CO2 to get ocean temperature back to "normal"?

 

[westwall]

Seafood's new normal: An ecosystem at risk

"The plight of urchins, abalones and the kelp forest is just one example of an extensive ongoing disruption of California’s coastal ecosystem — and the fisheries that depend on it — after several years of unusually warm ocean conditions and drought. Earlier this month, The Chronicle reported that scientists have discovered evidence in San Francisco Bay and its estuary of what is being called the planet’s sixth mass extinction, affecting species including chinook salmon and delta smelt."

Read the link above for more details.

Wow, i can't believe you fall for this silliness over and over and over again. When are you going to learn that you need to actually go to the SOURCE for the real facts.

Here you go, a little overview of the actual cause.



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

"Harmful Algal Bloom
The first major impact to the region occurred in August 2011 when a harmful algal bloom released a toxin into Sonoma County waters, killing large numbers of marine invertebrates. The California Fish and Game Commission responded to this unprecedented event by instituting a temporary emergency closure of the abalone fishery in Sonoma County, followed by reductions in the annual abalone catch limits starting in 2014. This event marked the beginning of a set of ecological stressors that would impact multiple invertebrate fisheries on California’s north coast.

Sea Star Wasting Disease
Two years later in 2013, Sea Star Wasting Diseasekilled large numbers of sea stars on the West Coast of North America, from Mexico to Alaska. Sea stars are important predators of invertebrates that live in the kelp forests. The loss of these predators added another stressor that would later contribute to a sea urchin population expansion.

Purple Sea Urchin Population Boom
CDFW researchers have discovered that purple sea urchin densities are now greater than 60 times their historic density in northern California. This unprecedented expansion of urchin populations spans hundreds of miles of coastline. Purple sea urchins are voracious consumers of kelp. In large numbers, these small but hardy herbivores can easily wipe out vast expanses of kelp and other algae, changing the landscape from a lush and diverse kelp forest ecosystem to what is known as an “urchin barren”.

More sunlight reaches the sea floor in urchin barrens, because the light is no longer filtered through thick fronds of kelp canopy and sub-canopy – similar to the way sunlight is filtered through a rain forest canopy on land. Fish and other species that normally hide in the shade of these fronds are no longer protected from the hungry eyes of larger predators.

And finally the "warm blob" associated with the El Nino, not a darned thing associated with the global warming (which isn't happening) you claim.

"Unprecedented Warm Water
The kelp forest ecosystem suffered another series of shocks in 2014 and 2015, when coastal water temperatures along the West Coast rocketed upwards due to a combination of oceanographic features: the “Warm Blob” in 2014, combined with a strong El Niñothat began in 2015. Kelp and many other marine species are very sensitive to changes in water temperature, and warm water holds few of the nutrients required for kelp growth."



“Perfect Storm” Decimates Northern California Kelp Forests

And .... when writing a term paper one usually writes a conclusion based on evidence. You've offered evidence that something is afoot, but no hint as to what. We both understand that the ocean ecosystem has changed, and something, or many things are in play. Do you have an opinion on what is in play?

What are you talking about. The link I provided lays out the cause of the kelp death chapter and verse. It is actually quite simple in it's simplicity. There is no global warming component to the tale at all. It is all a localized phenomena exacerbated by the El Nino, which, once again, has no relation to the supposed global warming..Which isn't happening anyway.

So you say. I side with the large percentage of scientists, not you.

No, you side with a large percentage of climatologists. Huge difference. And, more to the point the paper I linked to was compiled by the people on the ground actually doing the local research. You went out and found a paper written by a political hack that has ZERO relationship to reality.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How much do we have to reduce CO2 to get ocean temperature back to "normal"?

Bump for the peer reviewed answers

 

[oldsoul]

How much do we have to reduce CO2 to get ocean temperature back to "normal"?

That is an interesting question. One that I have posed several times here and have only gotten one direct response, and if I remember correctly, the poster refrained from giving a substantiated number.