Obama is RIGHT about the rich/tax issue!!!!!!

bucs90

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
26,545
Reaction score
6,022
Points
280
In an interview, Obama was informed that raising capital gains taxes, historically, have LOWERED the amount of revenue the gov't took in. He responded it's more about fairness. Well, he's RIGHT!! Sure, the rich pay higher rates of INCOME taxes, and 50% of people don't pay income tax at all. And sure, they pay the majority of taxes all together. BUT....the rich, and ANYONE else who recieves capital gains, does pay a lower rate than some are paying in their income and payroll taxes. Two separate taxes all together, as most people don't recieve capital gains at all. So anyone paying capital gains, rich, middle or poor, pay the same low rate. SO..............

I say Obama is right. No one should pay a rate of income/payroll taxes higher than Warrent Buffett's rate on capital gains.

Thus, Obama should demand ALL tax rates be LOWERED to the level of the capital gains rate:clap2:

Great idea Mr. President.
 
OP
bucs90

bucs90

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
26,545
Reaction score
6,022
Points
280
In fact, what are capital gains? A return on what you've invested, right? And to be FAIR, others should pay the same rate on the income they get, right?

Ok. Then we should also tax welfare, food stamps, and all subsidies given out by the government at the same rate as capital gains. After all, those people have made a choice of actions to invest in handouts, thus, to be FAIR that income should be taxed at the same rate as Warren Buffett.
 

auditor0007

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
12,566
Reaction score
2,265
Points
255
Location
Toledo, OH
In an interview, Obama was informed that raising capital gains taxes, historically, have LOWERED the amount of revenue the gov't took in. He responded it's more about fairness. Well, he's RIGHT!! Sure, the rich pay higher rates of INCOME taxes, and 50% of people don't pay income tax at all. And sure, they pay the majority of taxes all together. BUT....the rich, and ANYONE else who recieves capital gains, does pay a lower rate than some are paying in their income and payroll taxes. Two separate taxes all together, as most people don't recieve capital gains at all. So anyone paying capital gains, rich, middle or poor, pay the same low rate. SO..............

I say Obama is right. No one should pay a rate of income/payroll taxes higher than Warrent Buffett's rate on capital gains.

Thus, Obama should demand ALL tax rates be LOWERED to the level of the capital gains rate:clap2:

Great idea Mr. President.

Google Millionaire Begs: "Raise my taxes, please!"

Google Millionaire Tells Obama: 'Raise My Taxes, Please!' - DailyFinance
 

Charles_Main

AR15 Owner
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,692
Reaction score
2,248
Points
88
Location
Michigan, USA
In fact, what are capital gains? A return on what you've invested, right? And to be FAIR, others should pay the same rate on the income they get, right?
Wrong, Regular income is guaranteed. Capital Gains are not. You take a risk then you invest. You could lose money. Is the government going to cover investors losses when they lose money?

Look you guys just don't get it. Investment is what makes this country go. Own a small Business want a loan? Investors are the ones who make Capital Available for you to borrow.

Raise Capital gains and you will lower the amount of money being invested in the US. Both by Americans and from abroad. Period.

If you think it is ok to slow investment right now, then go ahead raise the capital Gains tax. Me personally I don't think so. Not now at least.
 
Last edited:

Lumpy 1

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
40,461
Reaction score
13,446
Points
2,290
All these wealthy Democrats offering up to pay more taxes... well then, a 10% surcharge on being a Democrat would serve that purpose...
 

Shogun

Free: Mudholes Stomped
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
30,526
Reaction score
2,255
Points
1,045
No, you don't get it. Income is income is income. I don't care if you punch a time clock or gamble with investing, the net product is personal income and, as such, should be taxed. We tax gambling winnings as income so you really have to argument to differentiate upon assumed risks to investment.
 

TruthSeeker56

Silver Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
2,899
Reaction score
488
Points
98
Location
New Hampshire
It's the new liberal mantra....................punish those who take all the risk by investing their money in various forms (stocks, real estate, bonds, etc.).

The GOVERNMENT takes NO RISK. They just reap the rewards of the work and intelligence of OTHER people.
 

Dragon

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
5,481
Reaction score
578
Points
48
In an interview, Obama was informed that raising capital gains taxes, historically, have LOWERED the amount of revenue the gov't took in.
He was informed wrongly. This is a myth.

Do capital gains tax cuts increase revenues? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com

"One of the most cherished beliefs of supply-side zealots is that cuts in capital gains tax rates always increase revenue. To be sure, there are often dramatic upward revenue swings right after the cap gains rate is cut. But that is in part because people can choose when to enter into the transactions that result in capital gains--and they'd be idiots not to hold off a few months if they know the tax rate is about to drop."

The article goes on to compare revenues from capital gains tax over a full business cycle and to show that, contrary to opinion, longer-term revenues did not increase as a result of a cut in capital gains rates.

Simply put, the announcement of a cut in capital gains rates radically slows down realization of cap gains as holders of assets keep hold of them until the cut goes into effect. Then it results in a surge of selling as investors rush to take advantage of the lower tax rate. This means that capital gains tax revenues sharply DROP after the tax cut is ANNOUNCED, and then radically RISE after the tax cut is IMPLEMENTED. The net effect of the two is a drop in revenue, because if the assets had sold earlier they would have been taxed at the higher rate.
 

LordBrownTrout

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
30,043
Reaction score
8,553
Points
1,330
Location
South Texas
Capital gains gets taxed as income when selling a company. It's a good idea to have a savvy accountant.
 

Dragon

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
5,481
Reaction score
578
Points
48
Raise Capital gains and you will lower the amount of money being invested in the US. Both by Americans and from abroad. Period.
No, that's another myth. The only way it would be true is if all available capital were being invested in productive job-creating enterprise. In that case, an increase in capital gains tax might result in preference for investing the capital elsewhere (even then, capital gains tax would be only one factor among many, including labor costs, access to infrastructure, access to skilled workers, and access to markets, and might not have much effect).

The reality we face today is that there is a glut of capital, not a shortage of it. As long as consumer demand remains low, there will be limited incentive to invest in any enterprise producing goods and services for sale, and capital gains tax rate won't change that one way or the other.

Here's what I might like to see down the road, and so far nobody's said anything about that. How about a two-tiered capital gains tax, with a higher rate for sale of financial assets and a lower one for sale of productive assets such as a factory, or for stocks that are held for at least a minimum period of time?
 
OP
bucs90

bucs90

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
26,545
Reaction score
6,022
Points
280
In fact, what are capital gains? A return on what you've invested, right? And to be FAIR, others should pay the same rate on the income they get, right?
Wrong, Regular income is guaranteed. Capital Gains are not. You take a risk then you invest. You could lose money. Is the government going to cover investors losses when they lose money?

Look you guys just don't get it. Investment is what makes this country go. Own a small Business want a loan? Investors are the ones who make Capital Available for you to borrow.

Raise Capital gains and you will lower the amount of money being invested in the US. Both by Americans and from abroad. Period.

If you think it is ok to slow investment right now, then go ahead raise the capital Gains tax. Me personally I don't think so. Not now at least.

Oh I agree with you. My point was that yes, we should all pay the same rate, thus we should LOWER all other tax rates to that of the current capital gains tax rate!!!!! Then, we should also tax all welfare and food stamp handouts at the same rate as capital gains tax.

Absolute fairness, right???

Obama wants to raise cap gain tax rates to make it "fair". Well, why not just LOWER all the other taxes to make them equal!!!!:eusa_pray:
 

auditor0007

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
12,566
Reaction score
2,265
Points
255
Location
Toledo, OH
In fact, what are capital gains? A return on what you've invested, right? And to be FAIR, others should pay the same rate on the income they get, right?
Wrong, Regular income is guaranteed. Capital Gains are not. You take a risk then you invest. You could lose money. Is the government going to cover investors losses when they lose money?

Look you guys just don't get it. Investment is what makes this country go. Own a small Business want a loan? Investors are the ones who make Capital Available for you to borrow.

Raise Capital gains and you will lower the amount of money being invested in the US. Both by Americans and from abroad. Period.

If you think it is ok to slow investment right now, then go ahead raise the capital Gains tax. Me personally I don't think so. Not now at least.

Oh I agree with you. My point was that yes, we should all pay the same rate, thus we should LOWER all other tax rates to that of the current capital gains tax rate!!!!! Then, we should also tax all welfare and food stamp handouts at the same rate as capital gains tax.

Absolute fairness, right???

Obama wants to raise cap gain tax rates to make it "fair". Well, why not just LOWER all the other taxes to make them equal!!!!:eusa_pray:
Because you can't continue lowering tax rates which lead to lower levels of revenue. We've already lowered the rates to their lowest level in 60 years, and now we have the lowest revenues in 60 years to show for it. And you want to lower revenue even more? You people on the far right have lost all sense of reality. It truly is unbelievable.
 
OP
bucs90

bucs90

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
26,545
Reaction score
6,022
Points
280
Wrong, Regular income is guaranteed. Capital Gains are not. You take a risk then you invest. You could lose money. Is the government going to cover investors losses when they lose money?

Look you guys just don't get it. Investment is what makes this country go. Own a small Business want a loan? Investors are the ones who make Capital Available for you to borrow.

Raise Capital gains and you will lower the amount of money being invested in the US. Both by Americans and from abroad. Period.

If you think it is ok to slow investment right now, then go ahead raise the capital Gains tax. Me personally I don't think so. Not now at least.

Oh I agree with you. My point was that yes, we should all pay the same rate, thus we should LOWER all other tax rates to that of the current capital gains tax rate!!!!! Then, we should also tax all welfare and food stamp handouts at the same rate as capital gains tax.

Absolute fairness, right???

Obama wants to raise cap gain tax rates to make it "fair". Well, why not just LOWER all the other taxes to make them equal!!!!:eusa_pray:
Because you can't continue lowering tax rates which lead to lower levels of revenue. We've already lowered the rates to their lowest level in 60 years, and now we have the lowest revenues in 60 years to show for it. And you want to lower revenue even more? You people on the far right have lost all sense of reality. It truly is unbelievable.

Yes. I want to lower TAXES more. Screw the leeches that suck the government tit for a lifetime. Pay military, cops and firemen. Pave the roads. Thats all.
 
OP
bucs90

bucs90

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
26,545
Reaction score
6,022
Points
280
"Revenue" is for fucking business. NOT government. Call it what it is. It's the taking of my money by threat of violence from men with guns. TAXES arent voluntary. I'm forced to pay. If not, men with guns take me by force to jail. Thats fact.

That process should take only what is minimal and necessary to fund protection and roads. That is ALL.
 

MeBelle

MeBelle 4 Prez 2020
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
18,983
Reaction score
8,255
Points
930
In fact, what are capital gains? A return on what you've invested, right? And to be FAIR, others should pay the same rate on the income they get, right?
I invest $100 in the stock market. Money that I have already earned and paid taxes on. Why should the money I earned off my (already taxed) investment be taxed AGAIN at the same rate?

Ok. Then we should also tax welfare, food stamps, and all subsidies given out by the government at the same rate as capital gains. After all, those people have made a choice of actions to invest in handouts, thus, to be FAIR that income should be taxed at the same rate as Warren Buffett.
Interesting concept...
 

waltky

Wise ol' monkey
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
26,211
Reaction score
2,581
Points
275
Location
Okolona, KY
Granny says let dem rich folks pay the income tax - ever'body else's income goin' down...
:eek:
Report: Post-recession income falls
10/10/11 : The study found the median annual household income fell by 6.7 percent over two years.
Income for American families declined more in the years following the economic recession than it did during the recession itself, a new study shows. During the recession, which economists say lasted from December 2007 to June 2009, the median annual household income fell by 3.2 percent, from $55,309 to $53,518, according to a report authored by two former U.S. Census Bureau officials. But in the post-recession period from June 2009 to June 2011, the figure fell by 6.7 percent, from $53,518 to $49,909. From December 2007 to June 2011, median annual household income fell by 9.8 percent.

“A decline of this magnitude represents a significant reduction in the American standard of living,” Gordon Green and John Coder wrote. The study found that during the post-recession period, households with just a male or female head and no spouse present saw a 7.3 percent decline in income compared with the 4.5 percent drop for married-couple households. Income for households with a head under the age of 25 fell by 9.5 percent, significantly more than the 5.5 percent decline for households with a head who is 45 to 54 years old.

Income levels dropped more significantly for households with a black head of the family than those with a white head of the family during this period: 9.4 percent and 4.7 percent, respectively. The fall in household income during the recession as well as during the recovery period were “highly correlated with high levels of unemployment, increases in the duration of unemployment and the large number of persons who have experienced ‘employment hardship,’” the report said.

Read more: Report: Post-recession income falls - MJ Lee - POLITICO.com
 

oreo

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18,102
Reaction score
2,921
Points
290
Location
rocky mountains
In an interview, Obama was informed that raising capital gains taxes, historically, have LOWERED the amount of revenue the gov't took in. He responded it's more about fairness. Well, he's RIGHT!! Sure, the rich pay higher rates of INCOME taxes, and 50% of people don't pay income tax at all. And sure, they pay the majority of taxes all together. BUT....the rich, and ANYONE else who recieves capital gains, does pay a lower rate than some are paying in their income and payroll taxes. Two separate taxes all together, as most people don't recieve capital gains at all. So anyone paying capital gains, rich, middle or poor, pay the same low rate. SO..............

I say Obama is right. No one should pay a rate of income/payroll taxes higher than Warrent Buffett's rate on capital gains.

Thus, Obama should demand ALL tax rates be LOWERED to the level of the capital gains rate:clap2:

Great idea Mr. President.

Obama cannot run on his policies--as they have all failed. So he is using class war/fare rhetoric--to divide this country. The Wall Street occupiers are his group of supporters--which includes special interest groups--specifically government workers unions.

Basically a policy of punishing success while rewarding failure--in his land of NO OPPORTUNITY.

$obama-speech.jpg
 

Money

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
91
Reaction score
17
Points
6
On the matter of capital gains, I think the government should not look to incentivize pursuit of capital gains over "income". I think our tax system should reflect equal income and capital gains rates, or just classify capital gains as income.
 

waltky

Wise ol' monkey
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
26,211
Reaction score
2,581
Points
275
Location
Okolona, KY
Middle class shrinking, rich gettin' richer...
:eusa_eh:
Middle class' share of the nation's income is shrinking
25 Oct.`11 - The top fifth of households collected half of U.S. income in 2010.
For Reno car salesman Tim Ticknor, the squeeze on his middle-class existence gradually has turned into a chokehold. In 2005, he was making more than $90,000 a year selling used cars to people who had moved to the Southwest for its booming economy. It was an income that allowed him to rent a townhouse with his wife and daughter in a gated community. Over the next six years, as the economy slowed, so did his income. First, it dropped to $70,000, then after a time it fell to $30,000. The car dealership where Ticknor last worked, making $90,000 a year, is bankrupt, and he is hustling as a day laborer for a temp agency.

Today, the car dealership where Ticknor last worked is bankrupt, and he is hustling as a day laborer for a temp agency. He and his family had to move into his mother-in-law's mobile home because they couldn't afford to pay rent. Ticknor's story reflects how, across the nation, the middle class' share of the nation's income is shrinking. Reno, which has among the highest rates of unemployment and foreclosures in the United States, is a stark example: The share of income in the metro area that was collected by the middle class fell from 49.8% in 2006 to 45.8% in 2010, the year after the 18-month recession ended.

A USA TODAY analysis of Census data found the Reno area was among 150 nationwide where the share of income going to the middle class — generally made up of households that make $20,700 to $99,900 a year — shrank from 2006 to 2010. Metro areas where the middle class' share of income dropped outnumbered those where it grew by more than 2-to-1. "The lower share of income is a way of saying income inequality is growing in the middle," says Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center, who has studied the shift. "The vast middle has less of the pie than it had before." Income is shifting to the top tier of households, especially those in the top 5%, Taylor says. The top 5% earn more than $181,000 annually.

In 2010, the top one-fifth of U.S. households collected 50.3% of all the nation's income, up from 49.9% in 2006. The lowest-earning one-fifth of households collected just 3.3% of the nation's income, down from 3.4% in 2006. That leaves the three-fifths of households in between — a common definition of a broad middle class. It collected 46.3% of the income last year, down from 46.7% in 2006. Analysts call it the middle-class squeeze. The data are the latest signs of a trend that dates to the 1970s, says Heidi Shierholz, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute. Back then, 53% of the nation's income went to the middle class. She says that during the 2000s, households in the middle class began losing ground because their incomes were not growing. The recent recession made it worse as employers cut work hours, furloughed workers, froze salaries or imposed layoffs. At the same time, the value of family assets, such as homes, went down. "Families are taking substantial losses," Shierholz says. "The really scary thing is, there's no relief in sight."

A 'humbling' experience
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top