Obama is a full blown marxist

[ronpaul2008]

The other day he's out advocating for 'equal pay'. The premise behind this idea is that the free market does not fairly decide salaries so the government has to step in and do the job. This is not just socialism where the government takes a big percentage of our incomes for some allegedly good cause. This is communism. The government decides exactly what you get.

Obama's platform is higher taxes, more regulations, artificial price controls (a staple of every communist regime), and big government programs. Most Americans are not even socialists let alone Marxist. Yet they are for Obama. I have to figure its because he's black, everyone is just so eager to see a black president they don't even investigate that all the mentors and trachers Obama has had since he was born are either radical Muslims or radical Communists. This is from his early days in Hawaii, to his college days, to his church in Chicago.

 

[ReillyT]

Until he advocates worker ownership of the means of production, he is not a full blown Marxist.

I haven't see that on his website.

 

[Diuretic]

The other day he's out advocating for 'equal pay'. The premise behind this idea is that the free market does not fairly decide salaries so the government has to step in and do the job. This is not just socialism where the government takes a big percentage of our incomes for some allegedly good cause. This is communism. The government decides exactly what you get.

Obama's platform is higher taxes, more regulations, artificial price controls (a staple of every communist regime), and big government programs. Most Americans are not even socialists let alone Marxist. Yet they are for Obama. I have to figure its because he's black, everyone is just so eager to see a black president they don't even investigate that all the mentors and trachers Obama has had since he was born are either radical Muslims or radical Communists. This is from his early days in Hawaii, to his college days, to his church in Chicago.

The List of Lists at marxism.org - educate yourself about Marxism. Obama is a bourgeoise member of a bourgeoise party. He's about as Marxist as George Bush.

 

[Toro]

Saying that Obama is for Marxism is like saying Bush is for the Spanish Inquisition.

BTW, ronpaul2008, what did he mean when he said "equal pay." Give us the context because it can mean many things. And can you link it?

 

[Annie]

Toro I believe that both Obama and the poster are referring to this:

Obama has endorsed a bad piece of pay legislation - Jun. 5, 2007

Obama flunks Econ 101
As co-sponsor of a bill that would bureaucratize most of the labor market, the presidential hopeful is flirting with a very bad idea. Fortune's Cait Murphy investigates.
FORTUNE Magazine
By Cait Murphy, Fortune assistant managing editor
June 6 2007: 10:07 AM EDT

...This is true; according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2005 female full-time wage and salary workers made 81% of what men did; (click here on "women's earnings" in PDF). What is more dubious, though, is the assumption that is the heart of the Fair Pay Act: that discrimination is the reason for all or most of the difference. And the act's remedies are absurdly misguided, injecting the federal government into the most routine pay decisions.

Granted, Obama did not write the bill, but he did sign on to it - the only presidential wannabe of either party to do so. Obama is a serious man and a serious candidate who presumably did not go out of his way to associate himself with this legislation in a burst of whimsy. But the Fair Pay Act, despite its anodyne title (who's against fair pay?) is the result of profoundly unserious economic thinking. That Obama put his name to it has to give pause...

 

[Ravi]

S. 1087 - Fair Pay Act of 2007 - U.S. Senate Bill

The above link is a link to the bill itself. I think the OpEd piece K posted is a little skewed, but it's hard to tell.

 

[Annie]

S. 1087 - Fair Pay Act of 2007 - U.S. Senate Bill

The above link is a link to the bill itself. I think the OpEd piece K posted is a little skewed, but it's hard to tell.

I found S1087 to be a defense bill. Here's something from Obama's site regarding Fair Pay Act:

http://obama.senate.gov/press/080423-statement_of_se_18/

Here's where one may find the text:

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

 

[Ravi]

That bill was an effort to allow people to sue if they found they were discriminated against, no? That doesn't remotely smack of marxism. I personally don't understand the objections to it.

 

[Annie]

That bill was an effort to allow people to sue if they found they were discriminated against, no? That doesn't remotely smack of marxism. I personally don't understand the objections to it.

From a look over, I'd say that the problem comes on the reasons for pay discrepancy, which is what the op-ed was about. It seems if passed, the bill would result in a flood of claims of pay discrimination.

I'll look on some legal sites, see if there is some discussion.

 

[Annie]

Arggg, looking around I find this:

The Volokh Conspiracy - More on Obama's View of the Constitution:

I definitely do not like his approach to the constitution. Links at site:

More on Obama's View of the Constitution:
Via Bench Memos, I recently came across what appears to be a transcript of Senator Obama's address to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund on July 17, 2007, in which he spoke about the law and the Constitution. An excerpt:

I think the Constitution can be interpreted in so many ways. And one way is a cramped and narrow way in which the Constitution and the courts essentially become the rubber stamps of the powerful in society. And then there’s another vision of the court [sic] that says that the courts are the refuge of the powerless. Because oftentimes they can lose in the democratic back and forth. They may be locked out and prevented from fully participating in the democratic process.

That’s one of the reasons I opposed Alito, you know, as well as Justice Roberts. When Roberts came up and everybody was saying, “You know, he’s very smart and he’s seems a very decent man and he loves his wife. [Laughter] You know, he’s good to his dog. [laughter] He’s so well qualified.” I said, well look, that’s absolutely true and in most Supreme Court decis--, in the overwhelming number of Supreme Court decisions, that’s enough. Good intellect, you read the statute, you look at the case law and most of the time, the law’s pretty clear. Ninety-five percent of the time. Justice Ginsburg, Justice Thomas, Justice Scalia they’re all gonna agree on the outcome.​

But it’s those five percent of the cases that really count. And in those five percent of the cases, what you’ve got to look at is — what is in the justice’s heart.

 

[doeton]

The other day he's out advocating for 'equal pay'. The premise behind this idea is that the free market does not fairly decide salaries so the government has to step in and do the job.

ah, yes if we could only go back to real free markets...like mining towns, with mine owned stores...this would be real capitalism where the man takes gets back all our incomes for some allegedly good cause (ya know food, shelter). This would be real capitalism. Where man decides exactly what you get. You get further and further in debt. and when you get sick, they send your 8 year old son to support the whole family.

Obama's platform is actually only higher taxes for people with an income over 1/4 of million, more regulations(heaven forbid - see housing, see oil speculation), and health care.

Most Americans are not even socialists let alone Marxist. Yet they are for Obama. I have to figure its because he's black, everyone is just so eager to see a black president they don't even investigate that all the mentors and trachers Obama has had since he was born are either radical Muslims or radical Communists. This is from his early days in Hawaii, to his college days, to his church in Chicago.

most american are in favor of minimum wage...hmmm

most american are in favor of the fair labor standards act - 40 hour work with with overtime....hmmm

most americans are in favor of child labor protections.

bunch of commies...

 

[Ravi]

From a look over, I'd say that the problem comes on the reasons for pay discrepancy, which is what the op-ed was about. It seems if passed, the bill would result in a flood of claims of pay discrimination.

I'll look on some legal sites, see if there is some discussion.

There could be a flood of claims for pay discrimination. But so what? If it exists, why would you limit one's ability to protest against it?

 

[doeton]

Arggg, looking around I find this:

The Volokh Conspiracy - More on Obama's View of the Constitution:

I definitely do not like his approach to the constitution. Links at site:

uh, you don't think the Constitution hold protections for people?

 

[Annie]

uh, you don't think the Constitution hold protections for people?

I was referring specifically to his take on the constitution. Don't need a strawman, but thanks for the attempt.

 

[busara]

it is sad that a measure like this even needs to be considered. women earning less than their male conterparts is a sad reality of our economic system. i find many of the prejudices today quite appalling

 

[Annie]

it is sad that a measure like this even needs to be considered. women earning less than their male conterparts is a sad reality of our economic system. i find many of the prejudices today quite appalling

If all else being equal, I agree. However, it's not always 'equal.' I chose to leave my position for 14 years, while raising my children. So at this point of time, I've 15 years work experience, even if all else is equal, ie. education and productivity, it doesn't mean that at X years of age, I'm being discriminated against.

That doesn't mean others aren't, but the likelihood of blatant discrimination in professional positions is not as common as one would think or as politicians like to play with.

 

[Ravi]

(1) The Supreme Court in Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., No. 05-1074 (May 29, 2007), significantly impairs statutory protections against discrimination in compensation that Congress established and that have been bedrock principles of American law for decades. The Ledbetter decision undermines those statutory protections by unduly restricting the time period in which victims of discrimination can challenge and recover for discriminatory compensation decisions or other practices, contrary to the intent of Congress.

This is silly. If it's marxist to allow employees the ability to protest against discrimination through the courts then I'm a marxist.

 

[Annie]

(1) The Supreme Court in Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., No. 05-1074 (May 29, 2007), significantly impairs statutory protections against discrimination in compensation that Congress established and that have been bedrock principles of American law for decades. The Ledbetter decision undermines those statutory protections by unduly restricting the time period in which victims of discrimination can challenge and recover for discriminatory compensation decisions or other practices, contrary to the intent of Congress.

This is silly. If it's marxist to allow employees the ability to protest against discrimination through the courts then I'm a marxist.

LOL! I wasn't the one calling Obama a Marxist, I happen to agree with my Aussie friend regarding that.

 

[Ravi]

LOL! I wasn't the one calling Obama a Marxist, I happen to agree with my Aussie friend regarding that.

I know you didn't. I was referring to the thread title. I think we pretty much agree on this issue. There are certainly reasons why some groups make less than others...career choice, gaps in service, etc. But it is also true that if there is an advantage to be taken by an employer, the employer will more than likely take it.

 

[busara]

If all else being equal, I agree. However, it's not always 'equal.' I chose to leave my position for 14 years, while raising my children. So at this point of time, I've 15 years work experience, even if all else is equal, ie. education and productivity, it doesn't mean that at X years of age, I'm being discriminated against.

That doesn't mean others aren't, but the likelihood of blatant discrimination in professional positions is not as common as one would think or as politicians like to play with.

it isnt always the cause, but on average women earn less than men for equal work. im sure youve seen the reports. i would find some now, but cant take the time