Not going to work, an interesting dichotomy.

[theHawk]

They are holding out hoping to force companies to pay better wages. This group is venerated by the left and vilified by the right.

Thread premise is a lie. Why would the right “vilify” someone who doesn’t want to work for a certain wage? If you feel you aren’t being paid or offered enough, don’t work there. I fully support that position.

 

[danielpalos]

Thread premise is a lie. Why would the right “vilify” someone who doesn’t want to work for a certain wage? If you feel you aren’t being paid or offered enough, don’t work there. I fully support that position.

Employment is at the will of either party not only the employer or the State as wealthiest under our form of Capitalism where capital can be used to purchase quality time before the Court and justice.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Thread premise is a lie. Why would the right “vilify” someone who doesn’t want to work for a certain wage? If you feel you aren’t being paid or offered enough, don’t work there. I fully support that position.

based upon the 1000s of post calling these people lazy fucks, you seem to be in the minority.

 

[JohnDB]

Thread premise is a lie. Why would the right “vilify” someone who doesn’t want to work for a certain wage? If you feel you aren’t being paid or offered enough, don’t work there. I fully support that position.

However...
I have seen the system at the very top levels collude and conspire to hold wages artificially low in an area.

When the largest employers work with the state governments to keep wages artificially low...

And now want to whine because they can't take advantage of labor anymore... nobody can afford to live in the area.

Even at entry level professional jobs:
One weeks wages needs to equal rent on a one bedroom apartment...and if it doesn't...guess what?

 

[Dragonlady]

In this country there is a group of people that are basically refusing to go to work for what they consider shit wages for shit jobs. They are holding out hoping to force companies to pay better wages. This group is venerated by the left and vilified by the right.

Then we have a group of people that are staging "sick outs" and quitting their jobs over the vaccine mandates, hoping to force companies not to enforce it. This group is venerated by the right and vilified by the left.

But in the end, are not both groups trying for the same thing, to use the power in numbers that employees have to force changes by employers?

No, there is a vast difference between these two groups. The workers who are striking for fair wages, will increase the GDP, decrease unemployment, and no longer need the public assistance of "earned income credits", food stamps, Section 8 housing, and two or more jobs to keep a roof over their heads.

But without assurances that their workplaces, and the people they encounter in their day to day interactions: health care workers, police and fire department employees, teachers and school staff, and public transit workers, and with no sick leave or pay, if either the workers or members of their family get sick, they will lose their jobs and their income, at the least. If they are hospitalized, copays will bankrupt them.

The second group, are prolonging the pandemic, putting themselves, and everyone they come in contact with at risk, and costing the economy billions of dollars is lost productivity, and the costs of testing and treating the sick and dying.

That's why the vaccine holdouts are being vilified, and those lobbying for fair wages are being cheered. One group is good for the economy and the nation, and the other group is destroying the economy and prolonging the pandemic.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have seen the system at the very top levels collude and conspire to hold wages artificially low in an area.

When the largest employers work with the state governments to keep wages artificially low...

And now want to whine because they can't take advantage of labor anymore... nobody can afford to live in the area.

Even at entry level professional jobs:
One weeks wages needs to equal rent on a one bedroom apartment...and if it doesn't...guess what?

Uhhhhh, you'd have to get the training and education to make your labor worth more money?

 

[Dragonlady]

And then you sort of prove my point for me. Thanks.

I would add that I am more than willing to pay 1 buck extra for a burger and fires if it means people are back to work and getting paid a decent wage

The actual increase in cost to double the minimum wage for fast food workers is $0.75. The problem isn't the price of the burgers, the problem is the corporate structures.

Fast food franchises are designed to syphon all of the income being created by the minimum wage burger flippers into the head office coffers without improving the local economy. Franchise fees, advertising fees, and all supplies are sold to/provided to the "independent operator", at head office prices. Even the store decor, to provide a "uniform" appearance to the stores, is sold to the franchisees. They can't even get their local printer to supply placemats or napkins.

McDonald's is one of the most profitable corporations in America, and yet the store owners complain they can't afford to pay higher wages. As lawyers, there were some franchises we advised our clients to avoid getting involved with because their agreement was set up to bankrupt the operator within two years, and then the franchisor would re-sell the store to another sucker, getting a big upfront payment, and then bleed the next owner white for the next two years.

Locally, the stores are all looking so shabby, and there have been health department problems shutting down some locations for vermin in the playlands, and filth throughout the restaurants. People won't take their children to these stores any more. This is a direct result of corporate policies requiring local owners to cut costs where they can.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh no... it's never that easy. They always say that they will pay the advertised rate after 90 days of employment...which eventually means 90 working days...which means 4 months instead of 3 and then they miraculously conveniently "forget" all about signing bonuses and raises to what they advertised...
Holding their feet to the fire will get you fired in a RTW state.
I might be a primadonna but I'm not lazy or unskilled. And just because I don't hold a doctorate degree doesn't mean I'm stupid either.
I know a scam when I see one.
$1 for a diamond ring means the ring ain't worth a dime.

Wage increases are based upon performance. I don't rely on what they say I could make, I rely on what they are offering me at the time. If they say they are going to pay me X amount of money, they pay me X amount of money and nobody ever paid me less once I started the job.

 

[JohnDB]

Uhhhhh, you'd have to get the training and education to make your labor worth more money?

I'm tops in my field. I'm usually the foreman because of my knowledge and ability.
I've trained so many that I can't show up and not know somebody.

I know exactly where the bones are buried.

 

[Dragonlady]

Uhhhhh, you'd have to get the training and education to make your labor worth more money?

Wrong again Ray. You have to have a tax and labour law code which considers the rights and needs of workers and the community, and stops giving all rights to the shareholders.

All of the income now flows to to the top 10% of the corporations and wealthy investors. Your economy has now crashed for the third time in 40 years. The rest of the first world has only experienced one such crash, and that was in 2008, when they went along with your "derivatives swindle", in 2008.

In Canada, we were even spared that crash, but had a nasty recession due to slowed markets. We've even managed to retrain our displaced workers and continue to grow our middle class, build our infrastructure and keep the pandemic under control, without crashing our economy.

All the things that "American exceptionalism" is unable to accomplish, the rest of the world's first world countries, aren't having similar problems with. We have family leave, maternity leave, universal health care, safe drinking water, and reliable electricity both summer and winter, decent pensions for the elderly, good public schools for ALL, and a $15 minimum wage.

Too bad Americans aren't "exceptional" enough to provide that for YOUR people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you call a cleansing system doesn't apply to plastics and forever chemicals like PFAs.

And every system can be overloaded.

Recognizing that the planet is a closed system and all closed systems have limits is actually the reasonable stance compared to the current model of infinite growth and mindless consumption

Now you're talking pollution vs climate change. I'm talking about climate change, you know what the Democrats want to spend trillions on. Remember where I live, in the 60's we started our own river on fire. The theory was that chemicals dumped into the water would dissipate. The theory was wrong. We had to start cleaning up the river and we did.

 

[Dragonlady]

Wage increases are based upon performance. I don't rely on what they say I could make, I rely on what they are offering me at the time. If they say they are going to pay me X amount of money, they pay me X amount of money and nobody ever paid me less once I started the job.

You really shouldn't opine on stuff you know nothing about. Jobs have values as established by the minimum wages the company can get away with paying.

You haven't worked in 10 years, and when you were working, you were working for a small privately owned company. It doesn't work that way any more. My neighbour asked his boss for a raise, on the grounds that he had more equipment qualifications than any of the other guys, was always early, and on the job at 8:00 sharp while his co-workers were arriving hung over and changing into work clothes at 8:00. His boss said that head office gives him a budget of $X for the job, and no you can't have a raise.

Three months ago, they fired him because they can hire someone else and pay them $5/hr less. He found another job, but it pays $3/hr less than he was making before. That's how it works today.

 

[Dragonlady]

Now you're talking pollution vs climate change. I'm talking about climate change, you know what the Democrats want to spend trillions on. Remember where I live, in the 60's we started our own river on fire. The theory was that chemicals dumped into the water would dissipate. The theory was wrong. We had to start cleaning up the river and we did.

It's the pollution that's causing the climate change, Ray. The carbon residues we're putting into the air are just as toxic as the stuff you were dumping in the river, and the same thing is happening to the air. Time to clean it up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong again Ray. You have to have a tax and labour law code which considers the rights and needs of workers and the community, and stops giving all rights to the shareholders.

All of the income now flows to to the top 10% of the corporations and wealthy investors. Your economy has now crashed for the third time in 40 years. The rest of the first world has only experienced one such crash, and that was in 2008, when they went along with your "derivatives swindle", in 2008.

In Canada, we were even spared that crash, but had a nasty recession due to slowed markets. We've even managed to retrain our displaced workers and continue to grow our middle class, build our infrastructure and keep the pandemic under control, without crashing our economy.

All the things that "American exceptionalism" is unable to accomplish, the rest of the world's first world countries, aren't having similar problems with. We have family leave, maternity leave, universal health care, safe drinking water, and reliable electricity both summer and winter, decent pensions for the elderly, good public schools for ALL, and a $15 minimum wage.

Too bad Americans aren't "exceptional" enough to provide that for YOUR people.

Actually we are providing that to our people, just not by government demand. The Democrats in their attempt to create more government dependents gave us a labor shortage that is forcing industry to overpay workers. The result is the worst inflation this country has seen in 30 years.

We are not Canada and we are not any country in Europe. We are the United States of America, and there is only one of us in the world. We don't do things like other countries which is why everybody is trying to sneak into our country. Sounds to me you and your people are nearly totally dependent on government. The greatest fear our founders had was people dependent on a federal government because then it becomes more powerful than the people, and gives them more control over their citizenry. Our founders didn't want the government controlling the level of freedom we had.

As far as rights go, those are written in our US Constitution. The rights between worker and employer is they offer you a job for X money, and you either accept the job or you don't. That's the only rights you have.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

 

[JohnDB]

You really shouldn't opine on stuff you know nothing about. Jobs have values as established by the minimum wages the company can get away with paying.

You haven't worked in 10 years, and when you were working, you were working for a small privately owned company. It doesn't work that way any more. My neighbour asked his boss for a raise, on the grounds that he had more equipment qualifications than any of the other guys, was always early, and on the job at 8:00 sharp while his co-workers were arriving hung over and changing into work clothes at 8:00. His boss said that head office gives him a budget of $X for the job, and no you can't have a raise.

Three months ago, they fired him because they can hire someone else and pay them $5/hr less. He found another job, but it pays $3/hr less than he was making before. That's how it works today.

And they will cycle through them low wage earners until the company goes bankrupt.

80% of all business failures are due to bad management but 100% of the time blamed on the labor force.

 

[Papageorgio]

I just refuse to work certain days, those days are called weekdays.

Just when I didn't think you could get any dumber, you top yourself. Thanks for the humor.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's the pollution that's causing the climate change, Ray. The carbon residues we're putting into the air are just as toxic as the stuff you were dumping in the river, and the same thing is happening to the air. Time to clean it up.

Apples and oranges. We had to stop dumping chemicals into the river because we had empirical evidence it was causing harm to our waters. Water isn't flammable. Climate change is a theory created by governments who desire to take over our energy thus having control of the people. In our country they simply can't take over these things. They have to scare the people into a position of begging the government to take it over.

You see politicians mostly on the left have been wanting to gain more and more power over us. To some degree they've been successful. But what's stopping them from total control is energy and healthcare. Once government has total control over these to things, they will have total control over the people.

 

[DudleySmith]

However...
I have seen the system at the very top levels collude and conspire to hold wages artificially low in an area.

Silly Con Valley is Exhibit A. Right wingers are fine with employers organizing to eliminate competition in wages and bennies, but then snivel and wet themselves when labor does the same thing. This is why I never take ideologues seriously. Same with illegal immigration; they love illegals as long as the Democrats don't ferry them to the polls.

 

[Moonglow]

Just when I didn't think you could get any dumber, you top yourself. Thanks for the humor.

Anything to sooth the tempest soul of the ogres.

 

[DudleySmith]

80% of all business failures are due to bad management but 100% of the time blamed on the labor force.

Actually it's 100% of failures are bad management or glutted markets but good point. Nutjobs think the solution to that is to encourage even more glut by seeing who can keep their doors open by removing the floor on wages. It never works either but it sure is grand to fuck over the workers anyway, just for fun. It also makes the gimps making 10 cents an hour more than somebody else feel ' special' and 'better' than the other guy, and makes all that shameless ass kissing worthwhile, in their minds.