None Dare Call It What It Is...

[Mikeoxenormous]

Death. When Adam sinned he died. Unless sin is resolved in a person, they will be eternally seperated from God. There is eventual physical death and spiritual death, since you are a spirit being. Do you believe that?

I believe my 'spirit' resides in my physical body. When I physically die my spirit will cease to exist. I see no reason to think that my spirit existed before I was born or will exist after I die. It would be nice to be immortal but that is, almost certainly, not possible.

And why you will be worm food when you die...Don't have to explain yourself, but why do you have a spirit if not to move on to the after life? And who gave you that spirit?

Spiritual World (Afterlife) – Swedenborg Foundation

Swedenborg calls the realm we enter immediately after death as world of spirits, an intermediate realm situated between heaven and hell. It can be thought of as a “sorting out” zone from which spirits go to either heaven or hell. He describes three states that people might pass through in this realm.

Funny how when people get close to their day of reckoning, they start to see a different view of life.

https://www.mediaite.com/print/ted-...at-you-pray-for-me-as-my-own-health-declines/

 

[BS Filter]

Death. When Adam sinned he died. Unless sin is resolved in a person, they will be eternally seperated from God. There is eventual physical death and spiritual death, since you are a spirit being. Do you believe that?

I believe my 'spirit' resides in my physical body. When I physically die my spirit will cease to exist. I see no reason to think that my spirit existed before I was born or will exist after I die. It would be nice to be immortal but that is, almost certainly, not possible.

And why you will be worm food when you die...Don't have to explain yourself, but why do you have a spirit if not to move on to the after life? And who gave you that spirit?

Spiritual World (Afterlife) – Swedenborg Foundation

Swedenborg calls the realm we enter immediately after death as world of spirits, an intermediate realm situated between heaven and hell. It can be thought of as a “sorting out” zone from which spirits go to either heaven or hell. He describes three states that people might pass through in this realm.

Funny how when people get close to their day of reckoning, they start to see a different view of life.

https://www.mediaite.com/print/ted-...at-you-pray-for-me-as-my-own-health-declines/

I believe the Scriptures, I am living in eternal life now because of faith in Jesus Christ. When my body dies, I am immediately with God for eternity. I have been born again by the Spirit of God. I was about as lost and confused as a man can be in 1981. I was 31 years old. People come to the One True Living God in various times of life and circumstances. Many don't. Many are caught up in religion and expecting religion to save them. Many are following teachings of men and philosophies. They are in for a rude awakening when they die.

 

[alang1216]

And why you will be worm food when you die...Don't have to explain yourself, but why do you have a spirit if not to move on to the after life? And who gave you that spirit?

You, like many of us, have a vastly inflated view of our importance. Your 'spirit' is what enables you to function, find a mate, and pass on your genes. That is your ONLY (biological) goal and the ONLY reason for your existence. You may believe that an all-powerful God takes a personal interest in you and that you will be immortal but it is only your genes that have a shot at immortality.

Sorry, but reality is what it is. You can deny it or embrace it but you don't get to invent your own reality.

 

[hobelim]

And why you will be worm food when you die...Don't have to explain yourself, but why do you have a spirit if not to move on to the after life? And who gave you that spirit?

You, like many of us, have a vastly inflated view of our importance. Your 'spirit' is what enables you to function, find a mate, and pass on your genes. That is your ONLY (biological) goal and the ONLY reason for your existence. You may believe that an all-powerful God takes a personal interest in you and that you will be immortal but it is only your genes that have a shot at immortality.

Sorry, but reality is what it is. You can deny it or embrace it but you don't get to invent your own reality.

I prefer to think of consciousness as what the ancients referred to as spirit.

Consciousness like spirit is incorporeal in nature. We don't know much about it except that it is there.

Have you ever considered that everything we think of as reality, everything we can see and detect with our senses is just like the reality of dirt that exists beneath the surface of the earth while most of what is real lies above the surface out of the range of perception of anything living in the dirt just like 96% of our actual reality remains unknown. We call it dark energy and dark matter without knowing anything about it except that it is there.

What we can't see or detect from this limited reality could easily be the firmament of some greater reality where time, death, and decay do not exist.

When you want a seed to germinate you don't throw it up into the sky you plant it under the ground.

 

[alang1216]

And why you will be worm food when you die...Don't have to explain yourself, but why do you have a spirit if not to move on to the after life? And who gave you that spirit?

You, like many of us, have a vastly inflated view of our importance. Your 'spirit' is what enables you to function, find a mate, and pass on your genes. That is your ONLY (biological) goal and the ONLY reason for your existence. You may believe that an all-powerful God takes a personal interest in you and that you will be immortal but it is only your genes that have a shot at immortality.

Sorry, but reality is what it is. You can deny it or embrace it but you don't get to invent your own reality.

I prefer to think of consciousness as what the ancients referred to as spirit.

Consciousness like spirit is incorporeal in nature. We don't know much about it except that it is there.

Have you ever considered that everything we think of as reality, everything we can see and detect with our senses is just like the reality of dirt that exists beneath the surface of the earth while most of what is real lies above the surface out of the range of perception of anything living in the dirt just like 96% of our actual reality remains unknown. We call it dark energy and dark matter without knowing anything about it except that it is there.

What we can't see or detect from this limited reality could easily be the firmament of some greater reality where time, death, and decay do not exist.

When you want a seed to germinate you don't throw it up into the sky you plant it under the ground.

So?

 

[hobelim]

And why you will be worm food when you die...Don't have to explain yourself, but why do you have a spirit if not to move on to the after life? And who gave you that spirit?

You, like many of us, have a vastly inflated view of our importance. Your 'spirit' is what enables you to function, find a mate, and pass on your genes. That is your ONLY (biological) goal and the ONLY reason for your existence. You may believe that an all-powerful God takes a personal interest in you and that you will be immortal but it is only your genes that have a shot at immortality.

Sorry, but reality is what it is. You can deny it or embrace it but you don't get to invent your own reality.

I prefer to think of consciousness as what the ancients referred to as spirit.

Consciousness like spirit is incorporeal in nature. We don't know much about it except that it is there.

Have you ever considered that everything we think of as reality, everything we can see and detect with our senses is just like the reality of dirt that exists beneath the surface of the earth while most of what is real lies above the surface out of the range of perception of anything living in the dirt just like 96% of our actual reality remains unknown. We call it dark energy and dark matter without knowing anything about it except that it is there.

What we can't see or detect from this limited reality could easily be the firmament of some greater reality where time, death, and decay do not exist.

When you want a seed to germinate you don't throw it up into the sky you plant it under the ground.

So?

You said that immortality is unlikely.

When all things are considered it is more likely you don't have a clue just like no one has a clue what or where 96% of the universe even is.

I find it more likely that human life is like the life of a caterpillar having absolutely no way to conceive of its destiny to transform into another more advanced creature that can fly in a realm of life out of the reach of the underdeveloped.

 

[alang1216]

You said that immortality is unlikely.

When all things are considered it is more likely you don't have a clue just like no one has a clue what or where 96% of the universe even is.

I find it more likely that human life is like the life of a caterpillar having absolutely no way to conceive of its destiny to transform into another more advanced creature that can fly in a realm of life out of the reach of the underdeveloped.

Interesting speculation but can it be tested? Can it tell us anything?

 

[hobelim]

You said that immortality is unlikely.

When all things are considered it is more likely you don't have a clue just like no one has a clue what or where 96% of the universe even is.

I find it more likely that human life is like the life of a caterpillar having absolutely no way to conceive of its destiny to transform into another more advanced creature that can fly in a realm of life out of the reach of the underdeveloped.

Interesting speculation but can it be tested? Can it tell us anything?

Of course it can be tested.

But one has to have a sober knowledge of the facts which is challenging given that you have based your conclusion that God is some sort of evil weenie on a knowledge of less than 4% of what actually exists.

If there is a link between this world and some other it would have to be through the spirit.

I hate to repeat myself but if you set out to purify and refine your own mind, a basic necessity and requirement for inner peace and good mental health, at some point a natural event will be triggered, like a seed breaking through its shell and coming to life, and a worm hole of sorts will be opened in your mind that you will see in your mind. It is translucent and transparent and encircled with many brilliant colors like light being refracted through the facets of a perfect diamond..

This is the burning bush, or the glory of God, the Shekinah described by the prophets.

When you see it, jump through it and take a good look around.

 

[alang1216]

You said that immortality is unlikely.

When all things are considered it is more likely you don't have a clue just like no one has a clue what or where 96% of the universe even is.

I find it more likely that human life is like the life of a caterpillar having absolutely no way to conceive of its destiny to transform into another more advanced creature that can fly in a realm of life out of the reach of the underdeveloped.

Interesting speculation but can it be tested? Can it tell us anything?

Of course it can be tested.

But one has to have a sober knowledge of the facts which is challenging given that you have based your conclusion that God is some sort of evil weenie on a knowledge of less than 4% of what actually exists.

If there is a link between this world and some other it would have to be through the spirit.

I hate to repeat myself but if you set out to purify and refine your own mind, a basic necessity and requirement for inner peace and good mental health, at some point a natural event will be triggered, like a seed breaking through its shell and coming to life, and a worm hole of sorts will be opened in your mind that you will see in your mind. It is translucent and transparent and encircled with many brilliant colors like light being refracted through the facets of a perfect diamond..

This is the burning bush, or the glory of God, the Shekinah described by the prophets.

When you see it, jump through it and take a good look around.

I presume you have tested it. I'm curious to hear how it went.

 

[Borillar]

Says the people who voted for the guy who said "you will save $2,500" and "you didn't build that". When a liberal is telling us that someone is lying, it is the liberals who are the habitual liars and worse, they don't give a shit when they are caught lying...

It seems in this case it is a conservative who distorts the truth for their own purposes. The "you didn't build that" quote, the mantra of the 2012 GOP convention is a phrase that is 100% true but was taken out of context. To me that is as much a lie as any other.

Well repugs are masters of the lie and half-truth. If they produce a quote, you can be absolutely certain that it is taken out of context, or is only a partial quote.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I put you in your place again,huh?
.

sure you did ...you are just an ace ....bwuaaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

I sure did unless you can show any errors in this:


1. Being a war criminal....Obama
What makes him a war criminal?
Awarding nuclear weapons to the world's worst state sponsor of terrorism.
But....there is hope:

a. "Human rights lawyers say they hope the case signals a trend. In Europe's growing practice of domestic courts' taking on human rights abuses that happened far away, the accused havecommonly been foreign military or political officials, rather than local businessmen. But in December, a Dutch court sentenced a Dutch businessman, Frans van Anraat, to 15 years in prison for selling chemicals to Saddam Hussein. The chemicals were used in poison gas weapons that killed Kurdish villagers."
Holding arms dealers accountable at home


b. "....the provision of arms, ammunition, and other forms of military support to known human rights abusers has enabled them to carry out atrocities against civilians. The perpetrators of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide are on notice that they may be hauled before a national or international criminal tribunal to face charges."
https://www.hrw.org/legacy/wr2k4/download/13.pdf



c. Dutch Court Convicts Arms Dealer for Role in Liberian Atrocities.

".... an appeals court in the Netherlands sentenced Guus Kouwenhoven, a Dutch businessman and citizen, to 19 years in prison for serving as an accessory to war crimes in Liberia. For years, Kouwenhoven smuggled weapons into the African nation using his timber business as cover. His operation supplied Liberian war criminal Charles Taylor with weapons for use in a conflict that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives."
Dutch Court Convicts Arms Dealer for Role in Liberian Atrocities. What Does It Say About Justice for Economic Crime?

I am soooooo looking forward to Hussein Obama in an orange jump-suit.....







2. Obama OK'd Hezbollah selling drugs to American kids.
Now....it turns out that in the battle to get Nuclear weapons to Iran, he made certain that Hezbollah was allowed to sell drugs in America.

"Politico: Obama Let Hezbollah Run Cocaine Into The US For Iran Deal — And More
...the previous administration colluded with Iran to let terrorists and drug dealers go free in order to score one of the worst deals ever in international relations.

...the DEA had a major operation called Project Cassandra. This operation had identified Hezbollah as a major supplier of cocaine to the US and other countries, along with its usual terrorist activities on behalf of its sponsors in Tehran.

... Obama administration stepped in to drain it of all resources, just to protect its deal with Iran..."
Politico: Obama let Hezbollah run cocaine into the US for Iran deal - and more - Hot Air



And the most stupid among us voted for this individual....

....twice.

...and a drug lord.



Drugs Involved in U.S. Overdose Deaths* - Among the more than 64,000 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2016, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs (synthetic opioids) with over 20,000 overdose deaths. Source: CDC WONDER

Overdose Death Rates

 

[alang1216]

I put you in your place again,huh?
.

sure you did ...you are just an ace ....bwuaaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

I sure did unless you can show any errors in this:


1. Being a war criminal....Obama
What makes him a war criminal?
Awarding nuclear weapons to the world's worst state sponsor of terrorism.
But....there is hope:

a. "Human rights lawyers say they hope the case signals a trend. In Europe's growing practice of domestic courts' taking on human rights abuses that happened far away, the accused havecommonly been foreign military or political officials, rather than local businessmen. But in December, a Dutch court sentenced a Dutch businessman, Frans van Anraat, to 15 years in prison for selling chemicals to Saddam Hussein. The chemicals were used in poison gas weapons that killed Kurdish villagers."
Holding arms dealers accountable at home


b. "....the provision of arms, ammunition, and other forms of military support to known human rights abusers has enabled them to carry out atrocities against civilians. The perpetrators of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide are on notice that they may be hauled before a national or international criminal tribunal to face charges."
https://www.hrw.org/legacy/wr2k4/download/13.pdf



c. Dutch Court Convicts Arms Dealer for Role in Liberian Atrocities.

".... an appeals court in the Netherlands sentenced Guus Kouwenhoven, a Dutch businessman and citizen, to 19 years in prison for serving as an accessory to war crimes in Liberia. For years, Kouwenhoven smuggled weapons into the African nation using his timber business as cover. His operation supplied Liberian war criminal Charles Taylor with weapons for use in a conflict that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives."
Dutch Court Convicts Arms Dealer for Role in Liberian Atrocities. What Does It Say About Justice for Economic Crime?

I am soooooo looking forward to Hussein Obama in an orange jump-suit.....







2. Obama OK'd Hezbollah selling drugs to American kids.
Now....it turns out that in the battle to get Nuclear weapons to Iran, he made certain that Hezbollah was allowed to sell drugs in America.

"Politico: Obama Let Hezbollah Run Cocaine Into The US For Iran Deal — And More
...the previous administration colluded with Iran to let terrorists and drug dealers go free in order to score one of the worst deals ever in international relations.

...the DEA had a major operation called Project Cassandra. This operation had identified Hezbollah as a major supplier of cocaine to the US and other countries, along with its usual terrorist activities on behalf of its sponsors in Tehran.

... Obama administration stepped in to drain it of all resources, just to protect its deal with Iran..."
Politico: Obama let Hezbollah run cocaine into the US for Iran deal - and more - Hot Air



And the most stupid among us voted for this individual....

....twice.

...and a drug lord.



Drugs Involved in U.S. Overdose Deaths* - Among the more than 64,000 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2016, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs (synthetic opioids) with over 20,000 overdose deaths. Source: CDC WONDER

Overdose Death Rates

Ironically, one of those that don't Call It What It Is...Evil is the author of the Politico article that first brought the accusations to light:

It is somewhat ironic, I think, you know, that in their efforts to make the world a safer place - and I have no doubt that they had the best of intentions going forward with this - they did allow a group that was a regionally focused militia-slash-political organization with a terrorist wing to become a much more wealthy global criminal organization that has a lot of money that can now be used to bankroll terrorist and military actions around the world.

 

[ding]

What is the most complex thing that has been created by the universe? Are you aware that the atoms in your body were present when space and time were created? What were the stages of evolution of matter?

Don't know, maybe DNA? Some maybe but certainly not all. Don't know.

Consciousness. You are capable of contemplating abstract thought. Nothing is more complex than consciousness; intelligence.

Maybe, I don't really know. What will it mean when we create artificial consciousness?

I'll believe it when I see it. But the fact that we are trying and have made "smart" devices is proof that it is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.

Backtracking a bit... We know that space and time had a beginning and that that beginning followed rules. We know that rules are the domain of intelligence. We know that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. We know that those changes followed rules. We know that the universe is full of information. We know that information is the domain of intelligence. We know that at that beginning all space and matter existed in the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom. We know that at that time the universe was perfectly ordered. We know that at that time the energy that make up the atoms of every single human being that ever existed or will ever exist was present in that perfectly ordered state. We know that as space and time evolved that beings that know and create arose and that they arose according to the laws of nature which were in place before space and time existed. We know that the stages of evolution of matter were, cosmic evolution, stellar evolution, chemical evolution, biological evolution and the evolution of consciousness.

The Bible is the most complete book we have from the ancient world. That alone is reason enough to study it. It has also had a profound effect on Western society. You can not understand one without understanding the other.

But that doesn't seem to be what you are doing.

Please explain because I think I have achieved a good understanding of both.

Because you don't believe God exists and that belief is based upon YOUR understanding of a book and your simple answers to complex questions. You do not properly understand the Bible because you read it in a vacuum instead of integrating observations of how intelligence came to be or what the purpose of existence is. You underestimate ancient men's understandings because they lacked the knowledge to put their understanding in a form that your mind can relate to. I am trying to give you the proper foundation that you can begin your examination from. Which is to discard your preconceived ideas of what God is and why you believe God is a construct rather than what God is which is existence itself.

I'm here because I enjoy testing my ideals, exploring my biases, and learning from and about others I would never ordinarily meet. I'm pretty sure no one here knows more about God than I do.

Tell me about God.

God evolved from primitive man's need to understand & control his environment. Initially every force/event had a cause you could bargain with, a ritual for rain or health, etc. Then, at least in the Middle East, every city/state had its own pantheon of gods. More powerful gods had more powerful states but everyone was welcome to pay homage to any and all gods. At some point, sometime in the 2nd millennium BC, one group of Canaanites, the Israelites, made a covenant to worship only one of the many gods available, Yahweh. The Israelites did initially did well in battle but eventually lost their independence since Yahweh became displeased with the Israelites. The vision of Yahweh evolved from a god of the Israelite people to the god of every individual Israelite and then to the only god. It was this concept of a single, all-powerful being that Christianity was built upon and what we inherit today. You're welcome.

That is an overly simplistic explanation whose only purpose is to confirm the belief you started with. The reality is that rather than being a late outgrowth of the evolution of time and space, intelligence has always existed and is the source or matrix for physical stuff, such that Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. Only in this context will the Bible actually make sense. Unless of course you want to take it on faith.

The reality is that men have always believed in a higher power because it was hardwired into them and provides functional advantages.

 

[Moonglow]

1. Evil, that is.

In fact, in secular society, very few even dare use the term; it's archaic, it's abstruse....it's.....religious.


But it exists.


“The world turns and the world changes,
But one thing does not change.
In all of my years, one thing does not change,
However you disguise it, this thing does not change:
The perpetual struggle of Good and Evil.” T. S. Eliot



2. "In enlightened political conversation, the word 'evil' had been disreputable for a long time-..... The word “evil,” in many minds, |smacks of an atavistic, superstitious, and even medieval simplism, of a fundamentalist mindset that might be inclined to in witches or to reject the teachings of evoluiton in the public schools.

The secular, educated, cosmopolitan instinct...tends to shun the word 'evil' and, as an optimist and creature of the Enlightenment, approaches the world's horrors as individual problems that can be solved...."
Lance Morrow, "Evil: An Investigation,"p.12-13


"Evil has made a successful career over many centuries by persuading people that it does not exist."




3. Did I mention that the fear of being labeled as 'religious' has caused some fearful folks to make some sort of humor out of the term.

"The sixties' rebellion against authority introduced the idea of Satan as rock star..

...Many people do not believe evil exists..... The trouble comes in trying to understand evil. When people become frustrated in their effort to do so, they are inclined to say that because they do not understand evil, it does not exist- a....fallacy based on the thought that what I do not understand cannot be real."
Op.Cit., p. 3-4




But it is here, it does exist....and it plays a mighty role in the course of human activity.

Your God created evil..

 

[ding]

I believe there is evil in the world, but God is not the evil one. The evil one is Satan, Jesus said so.

Is God capable of eliminating Satan if He choose? It seems to me if you allow evil to continue you are culpable.

Satan has been defeated. Haven't you read the book? Man disobeyed God and gave up his authority on the earth. God redeemed man. God has done it all. We're the guilty ones, not God. Do you believe in sin and understand what it is? Do you understand God is holy, sinless?

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome. God's purpose is to achieve a certain outcome under certain conditions.

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”

The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light.

Let's start with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall from grace. Genesis is allegorical. It starts with the allegorical account of Creation. After every step God would say "and it was good." So basically everything God created was good. Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

I don't believe that Genesis is implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. I believe Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature. He can't go against his purpose.

So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism

The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

 

[ding]

1. Evil, that is.

In fact, in secular society, very few even dare use the term; it's archaic, it's abstruse....it's.....religious.


But it exists.


“The world turns and the world changes,
But one thing does not change.
In all of my years, one thing does not change,
However you disguise it, this thing does not change:
The perpetual struggle of Good and Evil.” T. S. Eliot



2. "In enlightened political conversation, the word 'evil' had been disreputable for a long time-..... The word “evil,” in many minds, |smacks of an atavistic, superstitious, and even medieval simplism, of a fundamentalist mindset that might be inclined to in witches or to reject the teachings of evoluiton in the public schools.

The secular, educated, cosmopolitan instinct...tends to shun the word 'evil' and, as an optimist and creature of the Enlightenment, approaches the world's horrors as individual problems that can be solved...."
Lance Morrow, "Evil: An Investigation,"p.12-13


"Evil has made a successful career over many centuries by persuading people that it does not exist."




3. Did I mention that the fear of being labeled as 'religious' has caused some fearful folks to make some sort of humor out of the term.

"The sixties' rebellion against authority introduced the idea of Satan as rock star..

...Many people do not believe evil exists..... The trouble comes in trying to understand evil. When people become frustrated in their effort to do so, they are inclined to say that because they do not understand evil, it does not exist- a....fallacy based on the thought that what I do not understand cannot be real."
Op.Cit., p. 3-4




But it is here, it does exist....and it plays a mighty role in the course of human activity.

Your God created evil..

Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

 

[ding]

Much of what is good in life was born as a result of much suffering and pain. The more you understand the less painful suffering is.

What was the good that came from smallpox? Did we screw up God's plans now that we've eradicated it?

Is it your belief that there can be no Creator unless everything is perfect? A utopia? Why do you have this belief?

 

[Moonglow]

1. Evil, that is.

In fact, in secular society, very few even dare use the term; it's archaic, it's abstruse....it's.....religious.


But it exists.


“The world turns and the world changes,
But one thing does not change.
In all of my years, one thing does not change,
However you disguise it, this thing does not change:
The perpetual struggle of Good and Evil.” T. S. Eliot



2. "In enlightened political conversation, the word 'evil' had been disreputable for a long time-..... The word “evil,” in many minds, |smacks of an atavistic, superstitious, and even medieval simplism, of a fundamentalist mindset that might be inclined to in witches or to reject the teachings of evoluiton in the public schools.

The secular, educated, cosmopolitan instinct...tends to shun the word 'evil' and, as an optimist and creature of the Enlightenment, approaches the world's horrors as individual problems that can be solved...."
Lance Morrow, "Evil: An Investigation,"p.12-13


"Evil has made a successful career over many centuries by persuading people that it does not exist."




3. Did I mention that the fear of being labeled as 'religious' has caused some fearful folks to make some sort of humor out of the term.

"The sixties' rebellion against authority introduced the idea of Satan as rock star..

...Many people do not believe evil exists..... The trouble comes in trying to understand evil. When people become frustrated in their effort to do so, they are inclined to say that because they do not understand evil, it does not exist- a....fallacy based on the thought that what I do not understand cannot be real."
Op.Cit., p. 3-4




But it is here, it does exist....and it plays a mighty role in the course of human activity.

Your God created evil..

Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

That God created, don't try to bullshit me with yer dogma.

 

[Moonglow]

I believe there is evil in the world, but God is not the evil one. The evil one is Satan, Jesus said so.

Is God capable of eliminating Satan if He choose? It seems to me if you allow evil to continue you are culpable.

Satan has been defeated. Haven't you read the book? Man disobeyed God and gave up his authority on the earth. God redeemed man. God has done it all. We're the guilty ones, not God. Do you believe in sin and understand what it is? Do you understand God is holy, sinless?

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome. God's purpose is to achieve a certain outcome under certain conditions.

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”

The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light.

Let's start with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall from grace. Genesis is allegorical. It starts with the allegorical account of Creation. After every step God would say "and it was good." So basically everything God created was good. Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

I don't believe that Genesis is implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. I believe Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature. He can't go against his purpose.

So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism

The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

What was his purpose for dinosaurs?

 

[ding]

It's a relationship. He isn't going to force Himself on anyone for their love.

I think there is a difference between forcing Himself on someone and playing a game of hide and seek with them. Especially since the stakes, eternity, are so high for the person.

What are the stakes exactly? Maybe it is your understanding of the stakes that are in error?

As for forcing himself on anyone, do you see that happening?

Hide and seek? How do you know he didn't set everything in motion and let nature take it's course because that's pretty much what happened. Are you expecting a personal invite or something?

Look if you can't see his hand in your life, then maybe the error is yours and not his.