No More Foreign Wars

[Couchpotato]

Mushroom

What are you disagreeing with? That it was easily predictable that Iraq (the majority sunni nation) would fall prey to Iran it's much stronger Sunni neighbor if the Shite minority were toppled? Or that the US was propping up Hussein and the Bathe party in the 80's as a hedge against the Iranian Regime (which the US caused in the first place when we overthrew the Shah)?

 

[Mushroom]

Mushroom

What are you disagreeing with? That it was easily predictable that Iraq (the majority sunni nation) would fall prey to Iran it's much stronger Sunni neighbor if the Shite minority were toppled? Or that the US was propping up Hussein and the Bathe party in the 80's as a hedge against the Iranian Regime (which the US caused in the first place when we overthrew the Shah)?

Wow, so much conspiracy theory nonsense I am amazed.

 

[sparky]

No. There is a universal definition, and we do not have an empire. Who runs these other countries in our so-called empire? You and gipper are delusional on this topic.

The are, as you've stated, our allies Admiral

Most of whom share our national interests which are shill and self serving

delusional is thinking we threw the Monroe doctrine under the bus to impart freedom and liberty to countries that we share no such interests with

~S~

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The are, as you've stated, our allies Admiral

Most of whom share our national interests which are shill and self serving

delusional is thinking we threw the Monroe doctrine under the bus to impart freedom and liberty to countries that we share no such interests with

~S~

You have zero understanding of the Monroe Doctrine if you believe that.

 

[sparky]

You have zero understanding of the Monroe Doctrine if you believe that.

perhaps Admiral , but my point is the world's police have always been on the take......~S~

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

perhaps Admiral , but my point is the world's police have always been on the take......~S~

Now, THAT I will agree with!

 

[Zavulon]

Oh, dude, my country is inferior to all of its neighbours (maybe, except of one). So, no big deal here.

No problem, Taras. Soon, highly likely, you'll become a citizen of the most powerful Empire on the planet and you'll enjoy wealth and safety that Emperor provides to his faithful servants (or just not disloyal subjects).

 

[Zavulon]

No one?

Not even with the massive number of mass graves containing thousands of bodies from the Saddam era?



To me, anybody that believes that the 2003 war was wrong and Saddam should not have been removed are no different from somebody saying that WWII was wrong and Hitler should not have been removed. How people can willingly ignore the hundreds of thousands tortured and killed there at the hands of a homicidal madman to me are beneath contempt.

Yep. The war of 2003 solved some problems - like destroyed regime of Saddam. It, likely, helped to solve other problems - like, say, Islamic terrorist attacks against the USA or NATO expansion in Europe.
But, as any other decision, it has its bad sides - raising of Iran and (due it was an illegal unprovoked aggresion against independent state) - it cause raise of anti-American motivation in the world (especially important in Russia, China and India).
Was it it finally worth it - ok, I don't know. Nobody actually knows.

 

[ESay]

No problem, Taras. Soon, highly likely, you'll become a citizen of the most powerful Empire on the planet and you'll enjoy wealth and safety that Emperor provides to his faithful servants (or just not disloyal subjects).

Yurik, sober up before logging in here.

 

[Zavulon]

I'll ask one more time. What is it you are saying. How did you get from that to the alternative being yearly 9-11 attacks? What you've stated here has zero to do with the comment I engaged with.

It was me, who asked. I don't say that 9-11 type attacks yearly was the only alternative for Iraqi war. May be, and quite possible, that there were a lot of other ways to fight a War on terror without demostrative destruction of one of Muslim states. May be not.
The question is, that we all see negative consequences of the war, but we can't be sure about positive consequences. May be, it was a lesser evil.

 

[irosie91]

It was me, who asked. I don't say that 9-11 type attacks yearly was the only alternative for Iraqi war. May be, and quite possible, that there were a lot of other ways to fight a War on terror without demostrative destruction of one of Muslim states. May be not.
The question is, that we all see negative consequences of the war, but we can't be sure about positive consequences. May be, it was a lesser evil.

So true---the situation was NOT PREDICTABLE----but we did know that Saddam was an evil murdering maniac----for me just his murder of shiites and
Kurds was ENOUGH to put a bullet in his head

 

[eagle1462010]

Mushroom

What are you disagreeing with? That it was easily predictable that Iraq (the majority sunni nation) would fall prey to Iran it's much stronger Sunni neighbor if the Shite minority were toppled? Or that the US was propping up Hussein and the Bathe party in the 80's as a hedge against the Iranian Regime (which the US caused in the first place when we overthrew the Shah)?

Backwards.

Shiite Iran and majority Iraq, controlled by Minority Bathist Sunni.

 

[Zavulon]

So true---the situation was NOT PREDICTABLE----but we did know that Saddam was an evil murdering maniac----for me just his murder of shiites and
Kurds was ENOUGH to put a bullet in his head

Actually, no. He wasn't "evil murdering maniac" in any reasonable sense and American actions in the Middle East caused much more deaths. Therefore, if you believe that the only reason for 2003 invasion was safety, wealth and happiness of Iraqi people - then yes, the USA deeply failed. But if you believe (as I do), that 2003 invasion wasn't any form of charity, and America defended, first of all, American interests, then the problem became not than one-dimensional and black&white. And the answer isn't that obvious. I still believe that it was a fatal mistake (one of those which ended American domination), but actually nobody knows.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It is time to reign in the Pentagon and warmongers like John Bolton and Liz Cheney.

Does this mean that Greenland is safe ?

 

[longly]

Nah, not bitching at all. Just enjoying the Empire getting slapped in the face here and there, and all that shitshow going on inside the Empire.

As a side note. I don't consider your country as an empire. Corporation of the raiders, would be more correct.

Well then what is this empire you are referring to as you said United States is not an empire. It is a federation of states. I have made the point in the past that Puerto Rico is not a part of the United States. The United States is composed of 50 states Puerto Rico is a territory, a possession, of the US and therefore not part of the United States.

 

[Mushroom]

I have made the point in the past that Puerto Rico is not a part of the United States. The United States is composed of 50 states Puerto Rico is a territory, a possession, of the US and therefore not part of the United States.

Wrong, it is part of the United States. This is obvious when one is aware that anybody born in Puerto Rico as well as Guam is a US citizen by birth. Just as those born in the Territory of Alaska and Hawaii before they were states are US citizens by birth. In fact, somebody from Puerto Rico being a "US Citizen by birth" can even become President. So that is rather silly to claim they are not "part of the United States", yet somebody from there can become President.

Which is vastly different than say the Philippines. That was always intended to eventually become an independent nation, so the people there were never given US citizenship unless they went through the process to gain it.

And even different than somebody from Micronesia, who never became US citizens by birth even when it was a territory. But are still able to serve in the US military even after their 1979 independence because of their Compact of Free Association with the US. In fact, they do not even need a "green card" to do so. Citizens of Micronesia can actually emigrate to the US and work without a green card or any need for a visa.

The topic is far more complex than you seem to know. But the very fact that everybody born in Puerto Rico is a natural born citizen shows you are incorrect in that claim.

 

[AZrailwhale]

America was sending weapons to Ukraine when Trump was president.

Yep, because Obama was sending MREs and blankets. Trump sent stuff that Ukraine could actually use to defend itself, you know, like we did with the UK in WWII.

 

[longly]

Wrong, it is part of the United States. This is obvious when one is aware that anybody born in Puerto Rico as well as Guam is a US citizen by birth. Just as those born in the Territory of Alaska and Hawaii before they were states are US citizens by birth. In fact, somebody from Puerto Rico being a "US Citizen by birth" can even become President. So that is rather silly to claim they are not "part of the United States", yet somebody from there can become President.

Which is vastly different than say the Philippines. That was always intended to eventually become an independent nation, so the people there were never given US citizenship unless they went through the process to gain it.

And even different than somebody from Micronesia, who never became US citizens by birth even when it was a territory. But are still able to serve in the US military even after their 1979 independence because of their Compact of Free Association with the US. In fact, they do not even need a "green card" to do so. Citizens of Micronesia can actually emigrate to the US and work without a green card or any need for a visa.

The topic is far more complex than you seem to know. But the very fact that everybody born in Puerto Rico is a natural born citizen shows you are incorrect in that claim.

Puerto Ricans are citizens of the United States because Congress made them citizens; what Congress gives congress can take away. That can't happen to citizens of any of the 50 states. Puerto Rico can discontinue its association with the United States legally. A state of the United States cannot do that without a successful war. Not all the protections of the Constitution apply to Puerto Rico. As I said, tomorrow the United States Congress could decide to discontinue its association with Puerto Rico and set them on their own path without their consent and again that certainly can't happen to a state.

A Puerto Rican cannot vote for President of the United States unless he becomes a citizen of one of the 50 states or the district of Columbia. Puerto Ricans on the island cannot vote for US president. Puerto Rica has no electoral votes or US senators

 

[ESay]

Well then what is this empire you are referring to as you said United States is not an empire. It is a federation of states. I have made the point in the past that Puerto Rico is not a part of the United States. The United States is composed of 50 states Puerto Rico is a territory, a possession, of the US and therefore not part of the United States.

I called it empire at the response to another poster who called it this term. In this same post I said that a more appropriate term would be 'a corporation of the raiders'. This term has nothing to do with Puerto Rico or other territories associated with the US. It is about American foreign policy towards other countries.

 

[Mushroom]

Puerto Ricans are citizens of the United States because Congress made them citizens; what Congress gives congress can take away.

Yes, the Nationality Act of 1940. That was 84 years ago. And they are not even "Naturalized Citizens", they are "Natural Born Citizens". And guess what? That citizenship can not be revoked unless Puerto Rico becomes an independent nation and the people living there decide to remain instead of moving to the US (such as what happened in the Philippines). Either that, or the US Supreme Court passes a decision that the Nationality Act of 1940 and others since then are Unconstitutional. Congress can pass a law granting citizenship, but it can not pass a law to strip that away.

In fact, there have been many Supreme Court cases related to this already. Such as conviction in a military Court Martial can not strip away that citizenship. Congress can at most strip away the right for future children born there, it can not revoke the citizenship of those that are already citizens.