NATO

[MaryL]

Given the tenor of the times : Putin is afraid the "west" has to much power along Russia's border...HE believes NATO a threat to Russia, is Putin over reacting? Given Korea, Vietnam or Iraq?

 

[mak2]

Actually it appears NATO would clean Putin's clock in a conventional war. So yea, he should be scared. One squadron of NATO jets would have destroyed Putin's convoy, before lunch.

 

[MaryL]

Putin feels free to invade non-NATO countries. Crimea. Chechnya. Now Ukraine. Because he fears western NATO invasion? When the Russians (USSR) took over most of western Europe without the local's consent? NATO wouldn't exist without past Russian imperialism.

 

[Concerned American]

Given the tenor of the times : Putin is afraid the "west" has to much power along Russia's border...HE believes NATO a threat to Russia, is Putin over reacting? Given Korea, Vietnam or Iraq?

I just got a look at the current NATO map and NATO has really expanded into former eastern bloc nations since the USSR fell--Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania etc. Seems Russia has no buffer anymore. The last two countries are Belarus and Ukraine. Not that I care, but I can understand why Russia is upset.

 

[mak2]

Putin feels free to invade non-NATO countries. Crimea. Chechnya. Because he fears western NATO invasion? When the Russia (USSR) took over most of western Europe without the local's consent?

I fear Putin putting the first boot in Poland. Then I think it will be on like donkey kong. We will probably all die.

 

[MaryL]

I just got a look at the current NATO map and NATO has really expanded into former eastern bloc nations since the USSR fell--Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania etc. Seems Russia has no buffer anymore. The last two countries are Belarus and Ukraine. Not that I care, but I can understand why Russia is upset.

USSR "needed" a buffer zone. Russia, not so much.

 

[Esdraelon]

Given the tenor of the times : Putin is afraid the "west" has to much power along Russia's border...HE believes NATO a threat to Russia, is Putin over reacting? Given Korea, Vietnam or Iraq?

IF NATO decided to begin threatening Russian territory, he would have just raised his nuclear forces alert level. I don't think he fears NATO as much as he desires to expand Russian territory. His ambition to rebuild the USSR is well documented and he has been chipping away at that goal since Bush's term.
Because no one has attempted to stand in his way (except Trump) he has had no reason yet to stand down. He massively screwed the pooch with his current adventure, though. He has backed himself into a corner he won't get out of without losing his place in Russian politics.

He either resigns and finds a place to hide or he goes for broke and quits pretending to be the president of a democracy. It will be interesting to see if a coup takes him down now...

 

[Concerned American]

I fear Putin putting the first boot in Poland. Then I think it will be on like donkey kong. We will probably all die.

Nobody gets out alive.

 

[Esdraelon]

Actually it appears NATO would clean Putin's clock in a conventional war. So yea, he should be scared. One squadron of NATO jets would have destroyed Putin's convoy, before lunch.

He REALLY HAS exposed the weakness of his forces. He better hope Xi isn't watching too closely.

 

[Esdraelon]

I fear Putin putting the first boot in Poland. Then I think it will be on like donkey kong. We will probably all die.

That's part of what makes this situation so dangerous. NATO citizens could be killed accidentally with Belarus getting into the fray. Errant missiles or Russian aircraft making a mistake in positioning is all it would take to spread this craziness.

 

[Ringel05]

Given the tenor of the times : Putin is afraid the "west" has to much power along Russia's border...HE believes NATO a threat to Russia, is Putin over reacting? Given Korea, Vietnam or Iraq?

Russia has a long history of basically paranoia concerning it's neighbors starting well before the Tsars and over time there were/are some valid reasons for that. Russia has on occasion been taken advantage of and invaded. The current issue now is Russia fears the influence of the western powers on what were once Soviet Satellite nations. They feel those are still their nations to influence and don't trust the west "encroaching" as they see it. The more old Soviet satellites attach themselves to the west the more paranoid Russian leaders become. Are their fears valid? Partially but not to the level they are overreacting to now. So yes, they see NATO as a threat.
Doesn't excuse what they are doing simply pointing out a most likely cause.

 

[MaryL]

NATO wouldn't exist if it weren't the former Soviet Union didn't expand into Korea, Vietnam or Cuba like some expansionist imperialist political colonialist. Russia took over so many Eruopean countries, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia eastern Germany...these people NEVER want Russian communism forced on them. Hence NATO.

 

[MaryL]

I really doubt a majority of Russians support Putin at this point. There are anti war anti Putin protests in Russia now.

 

[mak2]

IF NATO decided to begin threatening Russian territory, he would have just raised his nuclear forces alert level. I don't think he fears NATO as much as he desires to expand Russian territory. His ambition to rebuild the USSR is well documented and he has been chipping away at that goal since Bush's term.
Because no one has attempted to stand in his way (except Trump) he has had no reason yet to stand down. He massively screwed the pooch with his current adventure, though. He has backed himself into a corner he won't get out of without losing his place in Russian politics.

He either resigns and finds a place to hide or he goes for broke and quits pretending to be the president of a democracy. It will be interesting to see if a coup takes him down now...

I gotta ask, when did Trump stand in his way?

 

[MaryL]

I gotta ask, when did Trump stand in his way?

Trump didn't didn't need to, the RUSSIAN invasion of Chechnya and then Crimea happened under that half black, half human Democrat President Obama. Remember?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I gotta ask, when did Trump stand in his way?

 

[mak2]

Trump didn't didn't need to, the invasion of Chechnya and then Crimea happened under that half black, half human President Obama.

I did not realize you were a overt racist. I am sorry for you.

 

[Winco]

You posted this already.
Expecting a different reaction this time?

View attachment 609427

 

[Natural Citizen]

Relevant reading...

Copyright © 2022 by RonPaul Institute. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit and a live link are given.


It All Comes Back to NATO
written by ron paul - monday february 28, 2022

When the Bush Administration announced in 2008 that Ukraine and Georgia would be eligible for NATO membership, I knew it was a terrible idea. Nearly two decades after the end of both the Warsaw Pact and the Cold War, expanding NATO made no sense. NATO itself made no sense.

Explaining my “no” vote on a bill to endorse the expansion, I said at the time:

NATO is an organization whose purpose ended with the end of its Warsaw Pact adversary… This current round of NATO expansion is a political reward to governments in Georgia and Ukraine that came to power as a result of US-supported revolutions, the so-called Orange Revolution and Rose Revolution.

Providing US military guarantees to Ukraine and Georgia can only further strain our military. This NATO expansion may well involve the US military in conflicts unrelated to our national interest…

Unfortunately, as we have seen this past week, my fears have come true. One does not need to approve of Russia’s military actions to analyze its stated motivation: NATO membership for Ukraine was a red line it was not willing to see crossed. As we find ourselves at risk of a terrible escalation, we should remind ourselves that it didn’t have to happen this way. There was no advantage to the United States to expand and threaten to expand NATO to Russia’s doorstep. There is no way to argue that we are any safer for it.

NATO itself was a huge mistake.

When in 1949 the US Senate initially voted on the NATO treaty, Sen. Roberg Taft – known as “Mr. Republican” – gave an excellent speech on why he voted against creating NATO.


Explaining his “no” vote, Taft said:

… the treaty is a part of a much larger program by which we arm all these nations against Russia… A joint military program has already been made… It thus becomes an offensive and defensive military alliance against Russia. I believe our foreign policy should be aimed primarily at security and peace, and I believe such an alliance is more likely to produce war than peace.

Taft continued:

If we undertake to arm all the nations around Russia…and Russia sees itself ringed about gradually by so-called defensive arms from Norway and Denmark to Turkey and Greece, it may form a different opinion. It may decide that the arming of western Europe, regardless of its present purpose, looks to an attack upon Russia. Its view may be unreasonable, and I think it is. But from the Russian standpoint it may not seem unreasonable. They may well decide that if war is the certain result, that war might better occur now rather than after the arming of Europe is completed…

How right he was.


NATO went off the rails long before 2008, however. The North Atlantic Treaty was signed on April 4, 1949 and by the start of the Korean War just over a year later, NATO was very much involved in the military operation of the war in Asia, not Europe!

NATO's purpose was stated to "guarantee the safety and freedom of its members by political and military means." It is a job not well done!

I believe as strongly today as I did back in my 2008 House Floor speech that, “NATO should be disbanded, not expanded.” In the meantime, expansion should be off the table. The risks do not outweigh the benefits!

 

[Wyatt earp]

You posted this already.
Expecting a different reaction this time?

Got to drive home facts