Major prewar battles in Middle East. Americans need their AR-15 assault rifles.Who says we don't need them?!

[progressive hunter]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

 

[progressive hunter]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

The AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. Rethink your problem based on that information.

what is or isnt an assault rifle is just an opinion,, but since the 2nd A was specific for weapons of war it doesnt matter,,

 

[Crepitus]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

Magazine Capacity has no effect on the number killed in a mass public shooting.

The two things that make an actual difference?

1) the gun free status of the target location

2) how long it takes until a good guy with a gun shoots back at the shooter, since mass public shooters commit suicide, surrender, or run away as soon as someone shoots back at them.

Magazine Capacity has nothing to do with either one of those things...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----



-----

The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

--

2aguy, defender of mass murders everywhere. What would they do without folks like you to ensure they are well armed with the most up to date, lethal hardware money can buy?

 

[Rye Catcher]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

Depends on how far we go with defunding and disbanding police. The right to bear arms becomes even more important when law enforcement is unable to do its job.

When people protest over a cop shooting a woman that was stabbing another woman, how much longer will cops even bother to intervene?

If the future of America is one with less police intervention, then it means average citizens need more guns, not fewer ones.

Vigilantism isn't an answer. BTW, this defunding of police is absurd.

A problem is the civilian population is better armed with long guns than all of the police on the streets. Sure, SWAT can be called out but that is often too late, and not all agencies have SWAT officers.

That is only one problem; the training of officers is not uniform across the nation, and even before the training those seeking the job need to be fully vetted.

A background check that is expensive and time consuming is not universal also, and a comprehensive one includes all civil and criminal records of the potential officer, deputy or agent; A DD 214 if they are a VET, their credit rating, their school records and their deportment in school, in prior work and in their community; Recommendations from non relatives (neighbors, former employers, school teachers and in matter of divorce former wives); any bankruptcies, or other untoward financial matters, such deep in debt.

Then a full psychological evaluation, both written and oral. If all of this looks good a written examination on policing and an essay to see the writing ability; then, at least three interviews, two with members of the agency after one with another outside agency.

 

[rightwinger]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

 

[Rye Catcher]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

Democraps just want to control us. Assault-Weapons.....can be reclassified after the fact to include any gun once they get a laws in place.

And that is why they call them "Assault Weapons," now....."Assault Rifle," only gets them certain rifles......"assault weapon," gets them all rifles, pistols and shotguns....

Obsessive and compulsive is in the works with 2aguy.

 

[progressive hunter]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

AK LOL AR-15 LOL! I got AR-10's and .50 BMG full auto. TRY TO GET THEM! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!

No one is coming for your guns, needle dick.

We should never take the word of people who made us take the issue of whether we have an individual right all the way to the SCOTUS. We will not be trusting ANYONE asking for more restrictions of any kind. You blew it. No more gun restrictions. Only repeal.

 

[rightwinger]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

 

[Lastamender]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

Not needing it has nothing to do with the right to have it.

 

[Rye Catcher]

Define "ARMS"

 

[rightwinger]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

Not needing it has nothing to do with the right to have it.

Yes it does,,,,especially when large capacity magazines become a threat to public safety

 

[progressive hunter]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

vietnam and Afghanistan prove you wrong,,
and what makes you think all of our military would attack the people??

but then again when were you ever right about something,,

 

[Lastamender]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

Not needing it has nothing to do with the right to have it.

Yes it does,,,,especially when large capacity magazines become a threat to public safety

It is still their right. And if public safety is the question those people most likely feel quite safe.

 

[rightwinger]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

vietnam and Afghanistan prove you wrong,,
and what makes you think all of our military would attack the people??

but then again when were you ever right about something,,

No they didn’t.

We were interfering in other countries and said.....Fuk it, this ain’t worth it.

Try it in OUR country and see what happens. Your Red Dawn Fantasies will be quickly destroyed.
Even with your Cammo gear and 50 round magazine and bad ass looking AR-15

 

[progressive hunter]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

vietnam and Afghanistan prove you wrong,,
and what makes you think all of our military would attack the people??

but then again when were you ever right about something,,

No they didn’t.

We were interfering in other countries and said.....Fuk it, this ain’t worth it.

Try it in OUR country and see what happens. Your Red Dawn Fantasies will be quickly destroyed.
Even with your Cammo gear and 50 round magazine and bad ass looking AR-15

its fun watching you twitch around like an idiot,,

 

[Lastamender]

Let’s face it America

Nothing beats an AR 15 with a 50 round magazine if you want to hunt small School Children

View attachment 489953

we can always count on you for showing us what an idiot you are,,

I’m an idiot?

You are the one fighting to make sure assassins and mass murderers have the firepower of their choice

no I'm not,, I'm fighting to make sure good people are allowed to defend themselves from guys your referring to and also governments intent on enslaving the people,,,

I know its hard for someone like you to understand,, but what can I do about your ignorance??

Save me your Red Dawn fantasies.

You don’t need a 50 round magazine to defend yourself. If you think you are capable of taking on a modern trained and equipped Army......I have sad news for you

vietnam and Afghanistan prove you wrong,,
and what makes you think all of our military would attack the people??

but then again when were you ever right about something,,

No they didn’t.

We were interfering in other countries and said.....Fuk it, this ain’t worth it.

Try it in OUR country and see what happens. Your Red Dawn Fantasies will be quickly destroyed.
Even with your Cammo gear and 50 round magazine and bad ass looking AR-15

its fun watching you twitch around like an idiot,,

He does do somethings well. Twitching idiot is certainly one of them.

 

[2aguy]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

Magazine Capacity has no effect on the number killed in a mass public shooting.

The two things that make an actual difference?

1) the gun free status of the target location

2) how long it takes until a good guy with a gun shoots back at the shooter, since mass public shooters commit suicide, surrender, or run away as soon as someone shoots back at them.

Magazine Capacity has nothing to do with either one of those things...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----



-----

The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

--

2aguy, defender of mass murders everywhere. What would they do without folks like you to ensure they are well armed with the most up to date, lethal hardware money can buy?

Wow......you like to start drinking early, and then you mix your crazy people meds with the booze...not smart.

Are you always this insane, or just when you post here?

 

[2aguy]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

Magazine Capacity has no effect on the number killed in a mass public shooting.

The two things that make an actual difference?

1) the gun free status of the target location

2) how long it takes until a good guy with a gun shoots back at the shooter, since mass public shooters commit suicide, surrender, or run away as soon as someone shoots back at them.

Magazine Capacity has nothing to do with either one of those things...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

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The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

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2aguy, defender of mass murders everywhere. What would they do without folks like you to ensure they are well armed with the most up to date, lethal hardware money can buy?

Do you understand, dumb ass...that it is you and the other anti-gunners that help mas public shooters? That your fixation with gun free zones creates target locations where the victims can't save themselves....?

Two things determine how many people are killed in a mass public shooting....and you enable both of them...

1) is the target location a gun free zone...mass public shooters pick gun free zones for their attacks...you want gun free zones...so you are helping mass public shooters, not me.

2) How long does it take for a good person with a gun to shoot back at the killer....the faster you can get a good person with a gun to shoot back at the attacker, the more lives you save....since mass public shooters commit suicide, surrender or run away, as soon as someone starts shooting back...they stop killing unarmed people, and commit suicide, run away, or surrender......and your policies that make civilians defenseless actually helps mass public shooters...this is all on you, not me.

 

[Crepitus]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

Magazine Capacity has no effect on the number killed in a mass public shooting.

The two things that make an actual difference?

1) the gun free status of the target location

2) how long it takes until a good guy with a gun shoots back at the shooter, since mass public shooters commit suicide, surrender, or run away as soon as someone shoots back at them.

Magazine Capacity has nothing to do with either one of those things...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----



-----

The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

--

2aguy, defender of mass murders everywhere. What would they do without folks like you to ensure they are well armed with the most up to date, lethal hardware money can buy?

Wow......you like to start drinking early, and then you mix your crazy people meds with the booze...not smart.

Are you always this insane, or just when you post here?

No answer?

Typical.