Major prewar battles in Middle East. Americans need their AR-15 assault rifles.Who says we don't need them?!

[Rye Catcher]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

 

[Utilitarian]

Why you worried about the Middle East? Their Guns can't reach the USA and we don't need their oil!

High capacity mags are great for firing 1,100 rounds into crowded country western concerts & shooting classrooms full of children without reloading.

View attachment 489955

Define "high capacity". If 50 rounds is too much, what about 20? What about 10?

At what number is it less lethal? At what number will you refrain from using the actions of criminals to restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens?

 

[Utilitarian]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

Depends on how far we go with defunding and disbanding police. The right to bear arms becomes even more important when law enforcement is unable to do its job.

When people protest over a cop shooting a woman that was stabbing another woman, how much longer will cops even bother to intervene?

If the future of America is one with less police intervention, then it means average citizens need more guns, not fewer ones.

 

[OldLady]

We need Assault rifles. There should be no Bans. There is war starting in the middle
East.!!.There could be civil war in America,!!

Not sure I get the connection.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

The AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. Rethink your problem based on that information.

 

[mudwhistle]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

Democraps just want to control us. Assault-Weapons.....can be reclassified after the fact to include any gun once they get a laws in place.

 

[mudwhistle]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

The AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. Rethink your problem based on that information.

A SAW might be considered a rifle that could be used in an assault.

 

[2aguy]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

You are a dipshit, know nothing...

There is only one mass public shooting where the rifle had an advantage in the shooting, and that was Las Vegas, where the range was over 200 yards......but he was also firing into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people, at night, from a concealed and fortified position.......with his initial shooting masked by the concert.



And if the crowed wasn't trapped in that concert arena, he wouldn't have been able to kill as many since they would have run away or found cover.....since shooting at moving targets at hundreds of yards is almost impossible for all but expertly trained shooters...



At the range of every other mass public shooting a rifle has no advantage over pistols or shotguns.......



again.....at the range of a mass public shooting the AR-15 is no better than a pump action shotgun....as are 2 handguns......you idiot...



Boulder....used an AR-15 with magazines that held more than 10 bullets.. 10 killed.....



Virginia Tech...2 pistols, one with 10 round magazine..... 32 killed.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 2 pistols?



Boulder...10 killed with an AR-15 rifle and regular magazines ( holding more than 10 bullets)



Luby's Cafe..... 2 pistols....24 killed.



Do you see that the 2 pistols killed more than the AR-15?



Do you know what the difference was between these attacks?



The cops immediately responded and shot at the attacker in boulder, causing him to stop shooting unarmed victims, and then he shot himself....



Virginia Tech and Luby's Cafe, the police didn't get there, and at Luby's Cafe, the one woman who could have shot and killed the attacker had to leave her gun in her car because of stupid gun free zone laws....



Boulder AR-15 with magazines that hold more than 10 bullets...you know, regular magazines..... 10 killed...



Kerch, Russia, Polytechnic school shooting.... 5 shot, pump action shotgun...which means it had 5 shells which is 5 less than 10........20 killed 70 wounded.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 5 shot, pump action shotgun?



The difference? The Russian police station was 100 yards away from the school...and it still took them 10 minutes to get to the school...and he managed to kill 20 people with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun....10 more than the Boulder shooter with a rifle and a regular sized magazine...





So again.......in a mass public shooting the number of bullets in the gun magazine don't mean anything......the gun doesn't make the difference....



What makes the difference?



1) if the target is a gun free zone, more people get killed.



2) if someone starts shooting at the attacker, they commit suicide, or surrender, or runaway....



That is what you don't understand and don't care to understand since you simply have a mental issue when it comes to the AR-15 rifle.

That rifle had no special advantage in a mass public shooting.

 

[2aguy]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

I wonder how many children can be slaughtered in their classrooms with AK-47's and 30 round clips; or families eating popcorn with their kids at a movie theater; or a couple of 17 year old kids on their first date at a concert. Gee with these weapons made legal and with 30 round magazines imagine how many funeral homes can be profitable. Isn't that what the gun lobby is all about, profits?

Magazine Capacity has no effect on the number killed in a mass public shooting.

The two things that make an actual difference?

1) the gun free status of the target location

2) how long it takes until a good guy with a gun shoots back at the shooter, since mass public shooters commit suicide, surrender, or run away as soon as someone shoots back at them.

Magazine Capacity has nothing to do with either one of those things...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----



-----

The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

--

 

[2aguy]

Why you worried about the Middle East? Their Guns can't reach the USA and we don't need their oil!

High capacity mags are great for firing 1,100 rounds into crowded country western concerts & shooting classrooms full of children without reloading.

View attachment 489955

Define "high capacity". If 50 rounds is too much, what about 20? What about 10?

At what number is it less lethal? At what number will you refrain from using the actions of criminals to restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens?

Magazine Capacity bans are a moving scale.....they currently want 10, though others demand 5.....they want 10 because they know that millions of handguns in the U.S. come with regular magazines that hold 15-19 bullets.....ban anything over 10 bullets and those handguns become illegal and useless until the owner finds some way to get all new magazines.....

They don't care about criminals or mass public shootings.......they exploit them to fool uninformed Americans.

 

[2aguy]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

Democraps just want to control us. Assault-Weapons.....can be reclassified after the fact to include any gun once they get a laws in place.

And that is why they call them "Assault Weapons," now....."Assault Rifle," only gets them certain rifles......"assault weapon," gets them all rifles, pistols and shotguns....

 

[ReinyDays]

For less than $100 at your local Walmart ... you could build a decent bomb and take out folks by the hundreds ... only pussies use guns ...

Bombs are no fun

You have to watch them scream as they run away

That's the coward's way ... real terrorists die in their effort ... besides, you'd need a timer and that'll cost extra ...

For less than $100 at your local Walmart ... you could build a decent bomb and take out folks by the hundreds ... only pussies use guns ...

Bombs don't work well for personal defense, which is part of why explosives aren't typically interpreted as being part of the right to bear arms.

Fuck self-defense ... this is about mass murder ... AR-15's are for girls, you didn't see Timothy McVeigh with a gun, now did you? ...

It's this simple, head down to your local Walmart ... [deleted due to USMB's Terms of Service policies] ... light the fuse and beg God's forgiveness ... easy peasy ...

 

[Mr Natural]

You have to watch them scream as they run away

And that’s when you get mow them down with a nice assault weapon.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

Yea they AR 15 will destroy a Bradley Fighting Vehicle or Abrams Tank.

 

[Crepitus]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

Those Palestinians will be over here throwing rocks at you any day now.

 

[krichton]

Why you worried about the Middle East? Their Guns can't reach the USA and we don't need their oil!

High capacity mags are great for firing 1,100 rounds into crowded country western concerts & shooting classrooms full of children without reloading.

View attachment 489955

What if they land on our shores at night, on boats? Who will protect our towns if they decide to sack them and enslave our women?

 

[Crepitus]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

AK LOL AR-15 LOL! I got AR-10's and .50 BMG full auto. TRY TO GET THEM! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!

You do not.

 

[Crepitus]

We see a major escalation of middle East issues. Who says we don't need assault rifles to defend ourselves.?!!. This is why I oppose any bans on assault rifles. We have a major conflict brewing in Israel and the Gaza Strip.Many are armed with fully automatic AK-47 with 30 round magazines.!! Yet we have people saying in America that we don't need assault rifles.? How are Americans going to defend themselves without an AR-15 assault rifle? You gun control people answer this question.

Insist your legislators do their job.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

An organized Militia would be great.

 

[Crepitus]

For less than $100 at your local Walmart ... you could build a decent bomb and take out folks by the hundreds ... only pussies use guns ...

Bombs don't work well for personal defense, which is part of why explosives aren't typically interpreted as being part of the right to bear arms.

Neither do AR-15s.

 

[Crepitus]

We need Assault rifles. There should be no Bans. There is war starting in the middle
East.!!.There could be civil war in America,!!

Not sure I get the connection.

I think it's the Jack Daniels.