Leviticus 18-20, yes or no?

[presonorek]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Christians: God Hates Fags

According to the first chapter of Roman's homosexuality isn't a sin. Homosexuality is a way to reveal those who have repeatedly rejected God. Folks who say sex is a sin is not educated on New Testament teaching on homosexuality.

 

[SweetSue92]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Christians: God Hates Fags

According to the first chapter of Roman's homosexuality isn't a sin. Homosexuality is a way to reveal those who have repeatedly rejected God. Folks who say sex is a sin is not educated on New Testament teaching on homosexuality.

Just because the verses don't literally use the word "sin" does not mean the Bible doesn't mean "sin" there. The entire passage you refer means sin. Rejecting God--blasphemy--is the sin against the Holy Spirit. The rest are just what you might call "garden variety sins"--but sins they are.

 

[Blues Man]

I cannot believe that in 2021 gay people and their allies are still WHINING about Christians not baking them a cake.

Gay Americans are appropriately defending themselves against discrimination in public accommodations by the bigoted, hateful Christian right; that gay Americans are still being subject to such discrimination in 2021 is reprehensible.

If gay Americans purposely go into a shop owned by a Christian, when other shops are available, they are being whining babies. Full stop.

And how is anyone to know if the owners of a store are Christian or not?

Gays have been hounding the owner of that bakery in Colorado for years now. Out of spite. Jerk moves out of jerk people.

You said people should not go to stores with Christian owners how is anyone supposed to know if the owners of a store are Christian until after they illustrate their bigotry?

And I have no doubt that Christians would sue any store owner who refused them service because they were Christian

Just another example of religious hypocrisy

I don't think that, in America, you should be forced to create something just because you hang a sign "Open for Business" outside your window. I believe I have been clear in the past that I feel this goes all ways. I don't believe we have to be eggheads about this. There is a clear difference between a business owner who won't serve Black people, say, and a Christian business owner who won't bake cakes for gay weddings, but will bake cakes for gay PEOPLE for birthdays, retirements, etc. Or, GAY BAKERS who will serve Christian PEOPLE but won't bake a cake with verses from Leviticus on it.

I do not believe simply opening a business means you are in indentured servitude to create whatever for whomever, because they say so. That's freedom. It goes absolutely both ways. So to the gay people marching in, one after another to the Christian baker to just "make him do it", I say, take your last stand somewhere else; you're just being jerks. I would say the same to fellow Christians trying to force gay bakers to write Bible verses on a cake.

Such bull

If a shop owner hung a sign that said "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED" all you Christians would be dragging his ass to court

I don't like dealing with false equivalencies and you're smart enough to spot this one. So stop. Don't waste my time.

It's a perfectly valid example.

Tell me why would a "Christian " baker want to bake a cake for a murderer or an adulterer but not for a couple people who never hurt anyone?

I'm going to say this one more time, just one more.

If a Christian has a sign or makes known "I don't serve GAYS" that's wrong. Did I not make this clear in my last post about Blacks? Okay now I will. Just like if a gay baker has a sign that say "I don't serve CHRISTIANS".

If a murderer comes in and says I need cupcakes for a birthday party, what's the harm? How is any baker going to know? They wouldn't. If a murderer comes in and says "I want a cake that says 'I am going to kill my wife'" I hope NO ONE would make him that cake. See?

It's not the person, it's the message or the event. For everyone. And again that goes all ways.

So it's wrong to and a sign but not wrong to deny service because a person is gay?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

And it is the person. Because if a gay couple wanted a wedding cake to eat at home by themselves that bigot Christian still wouldn't bake it for them

Do not insult me or yourself with "wedding cake to eat at home by themselves"

Lots of people have weddings at home.

My wife and I did I don't have any family and my wife only has one sister.

I don't eat cake so we didn't have one.

But even that excuse that it's not the gay people it's the wedding is an insult to every reasonable person's intelligence

Then it's still a wedding cake. Point stands

And so what?

What if it was a civil service which Christian Churches don't recognize anyway?

Why would some Christian baker bake a cake for two hetero people who would not be married by the church and therefore be living in sin according to their church?

But we know that sin is OK with the baker right?

Why are you into forcing free Americans into violating their conscience just because they have an "open for business" sign on their door? I am not. Remember: I am not for ANY one. I am not for gay people who are asked by Christians to bake a cake that has Bible verses on it. Or for Blacks who are asked to bake a cake for a Klu Klux Klan event.

Opening a business in America does not rope you into indentured servitude. Period.

ETA: to be more specific to your question: it's not that a gay marriage is a worse than other sins; it's that the very event makes the sin OBVIOUS. I would hope the same baker would refuse to make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife" or even a Divorce Party Cake.

This is not so difficult.

That's such crap.

It's only the gay sin that these so called Christians care about. They don't give a shit about any other sin ans will happily make a cake for adulterers, rapists, murderers and thieves.

It's pure hypocrisy

What does a gay marriage celebrate? Isn't that obvious?

You think a Christian would make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife"? Or "Happy Divorce Party"?

Maybe you can just admit YOUR bias against Christians and be done with it

And I bet your devout sinless baker is happy to make wedding cakes for people who don't get married by a priest in a church even though that's "celebrating sin"

No it's not. It's a correction of sin. What on earth are you talking about?

Your pure as snow baker would bake a wedding cake for a hetero couple married by a JP even though the the church doesn't recognize those marriages therefore that couple is living in sin. So that would be a cake to "celebrate" sin.

What church doesn't recognize that marriage? What are you talking about?

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.




It's the same thing they think about gay marriages

 

[SweetSue92]

I cannot believe that in 2021 gay people and their allies are still WHINING about Christians not baking them a cake.

Gay Americans are appropriately defending themselves against discrimination in public accommodations by the bigoted, hateful Christian right; that gay Americans are still being subject to such discrimination in 2021 is reprehensible.

If gay Americans purposely go into a shop owned by a Christian, when other shops are available, they are being whining babies. Full stop.

And how is anyone to know if the owners of a store are Christian or not?

Gays have been hounding the owner of that bakery in Colorado for years now. Out of spite. Jerk moves out of jerk people.

You said people should not go to stores with Christian owners how is anyone supposed to know if the owners of a store are Christian until after they illustrate their bigotry?

And I have no doubt that Christians would sue any store owner who refused them service because they were Christian

Just another example of religious hypocrisy

I don't think that, in America, you should be forced to create something just because you hang a sign "Open for Business" outside your window. I believe I have been clear in the past that I feel this goes all ways. I don't believe we have to be eggheads about this. There is a clear difference between a business owner who won't serve Black people, say, and a Christian business owner who won't bake cakes for gay weddings, but will bake cakes for gay PEOPLE for birthdays, retirements, etc. Or, GAY BAKERS who will serve Christian PEOPLE but won't bake a cake with verses from Leviticus on it.

I do not believe simply opening a business means you are in indentured servitude to create whatever for whomever, because they say so. That's freedom. It goes absolutely both ways. So to the gay people marching in, one after another to the Christian baker to just "make him do it", I say, take your last stand somewhere else; you're just being jerks. I would say the same to fellow Christians trying to force gay bakers to write Bible verses on a cake.

Such bull

If a shop owner hung a sign that said "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED" all you Christians would be dragging his ass to court

I don't like dealing with false equivalencies and you're smart enough to spot this one. So stop. Don't waste my time.

It's a perfectly valid example.

Tell me why would a "Christian " baker want to bake a cake for a murderer or an adulterer but not for a couple people who never hurt anyone?

I'm going to say this one more time, just one more.

If a Christian has a sign or makes known "I don't serve GAYS" that's wrong. Did I not make this clear in my last post about Blacks? Okay now I will. Just like if a gay baker has a sign that say "I don't serve CHRISTIANS".

If a murderer comes in and says I need cupcakes for a birthday party, what's the harm? How is any baker going to know? They wouldn't. If a murderer comes in and says "I want a cake that says 'I am going to kill my wife'" I hope NO ONE would make him that cake. See?

It's not the person, it's the message or the event. For everyone. And again that goes all ways.

So it's wrong to and a sign but not wrong to deny service because a person is gay?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

And it is the person. Because if a gay couple wanted a wedding cake to eat at home by themselves that bigot Christian still wouldn't bake it for them

Do not insult me or yourself with "wedding cake to eat at home by themselves"

Lots of people have weddings at home.

My wife and I did I don't have any family and my wife only has one sister.

I don't eat cake so we didn't have one.

But even that excuse that it's not the gay people it's the wedding is an insult to every reasonable person's intelligence

Then it's still a wedding cake. Point stands

And so what?

What if it was a civil service which Christian Churches don't recognize anyway?

Why would some Christian baker bake a cake for two hetero people who would not be married by the church and therefore be living in sin according to their church?

But we know that sin is OK with the baker right?

Why are you into forcing free Americans into violating their conscience just because they have an "open for business" sign on their door? I am not. Remember: I am not for ANY one. I am not for gay people who are asked by Christians to bake a cake that has Bible verses on it. Or for Blacks who are asked to bake a cake for a Klu Klux Klan event.

Opening a business in America does not rope you into indentured servitude. Period.

ETA: to be more specific to your question: it's not that a gay marriage is a worse than other sins; it's that the very event makes the sin OBVIOUS. I would hope the same baker would refuse to make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife" or even a Divorce Party Cake.

This is not so difficult.

That's such crap.

It's only the gay sin that these so called Christians care about. They don't give a shit about any other sin ans will happily make a cake for adulterers, rapists, murderers and thieves.

It's pure hypocrisy

What does a gay marriage celebrate? Isn't that obvious?

You think a Christian would make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife"? Or "Happy Divorce Party"?

Maybe you can just admit YOUR bias against Christians and be done with it

And I bet your devout sinless baker is happy to make wedding cakes for people who don't get married by a priest in a church even though that's "celebrating sin"

No it's not. It's a correction of sin. What on earth are you talking about?

Your pure as snow baker would bake a wedding cake for a hetero couple married by a JP even though the the church doesn't recognize those marriages therefore that couple is living in sin. So that would be a cake to "celebrate" sin.

What church doesn't recognize that marriage? What are you talking about?

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.




It's the same thing they think about gay marriages

So you are saying that all the people who are in churches now, who are married, who were married before they were Christians....all of them had to be re-married by the Christian church if they had "civil marriages" because the church does not consider their marriages valid?

WOW. That's amazing. And to think no one has ever heard of this.

 

[JohnDB]

Marriage in the scriptures was a long process of events. There were several parties and events that needed to happen before there was a final consumation ....ketubah, MIL training, Aunt's and Uncles training, house building, testing, dowry, bride price, and all sorts of things.

A modern ten minute ceremony doesn't create a marriage... except for civil courts for legal advantages.

The ceremony at the church or by a priest was just the commencement. The bride and groom were considered married all along the way during what we consider to be the engagement period.

They still have marriage parlors in middle east countries....where you can get married for an hour and divorced afterwards.

 

[Meriweather]

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.

More accurately: Any Ivy League University would say I am not one of their graduates, but I would still be recognized as a graduate of a State university. In the same way, a Church would note that while they did not make wedding vows before God, the marriage is legal due to the fact vows were made before the State.

 

[surada]

Marriage in the scriptures was a long process of events. There were several parties and events that needed to happen before there was a final consumation ....ketubah, MIL training, Aunt's and Uncles training, house building, testing, dowry, bride price, and all sorts of things.

A modern ten minute ceremony doesn't create a marriage... except for civil courts for legal advantages.

The ceremony at the church or by a priest was just the commencement. The bride and groom were considered married all along the way during what we consider to be the engagement period.

They still have marriage parlors in middle east countries....where you can get married for an hour and divorced afterwards.

Temporary marriage is becoming more acceptable, but it is forbidden in the Koran. Its still looked down on by the mainstream Sunni. ..more acceptable to the Shia. It was a loophole for the Muslim man who was away from home and was forfeit when he returned home.

 

[Blues Man]

I cannot believe that in 2021 gay people and their allies are still WHINING about Christians not baking them a cake.

Gay Americans are appropriately defending themselves against discrimination in public accommodations by the bigoted, hateful Christian right; that gay Americans are still being subject to such discrimination in 2021 is reprehensible.

If gay Americans purposely go into a shop owned by a Christian, when other shops are available, they are being whining babies. Full stop.

And how is anyone to know if the owners of a store are Christian or not?

Gays have been hounding the owner of that bakery in Colorado for years now. Out of spite. Jerk moves out of jerk people.

You said people should not go to stores with Christian owners how is anyone supposed to know if the owners of a store are Christian until after they illustrate their bigotry?

And I have no doubt that Christians would sue any store owner who refused them service because they were Christian

Just another example of religious hypocrisy

I don't think that, in America, you should be forced to create something just because you hang a sign "Open for Business" outside your window. I believe I have been clear in the past that I feel this goes all ways. I don't believe we have to be eggheads about this. There is a clear difference between a business owner who won't serve Black people, say, and a Christian business owner who won't bake cakes for gay weddings, but will bake cakes for gay PEOPLE for birthdays, retirements, etc. Or, GAY BAKERS who will serve Christian PEOPLE but won't bake a cake with verses from Leviticus on it.

I do not believe simply opening a business means you are in indentured servitude to create whatever for whomever, because they say so. That's freedom. It goes absolutely both ways. So to the gay people marching in, one after another to the Christian baker to just "make him do it", I say, take your last stand somewhere else; you're just being jerks. I would say the same to fellow Christians trying to force gay bakers to write Bible verses on a cake.

Such bull

If a shop owner hung a sign that said "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED" all you Christians would be dragging his ass to court

I don't like dealing with false equivalencies and you're smart enough to spot this one. So stop. Don't waste my time.

It's a perfectly valid example.

Tell me why would a "Christian " baker want to bake a cake for a murderer or an adulterer but not for a couple people who never hurt anyone?

I'm going to say this one more time, just one more.

If a Christian has a sign or makes known "I don't serve GAYS" that's wrong. Did I not make this clear in my last post about Blacks? Okay now I will. Just like if a gay baker has a sign that say "I don't serve CHRISTIANS".

If a murderer comes in and says I need cupcakes for a birthday party, what's the harm? How is any baker going to know? They wouldn't. If a murderer comes in and says "I want a cake that says 'I am going to kill my wife'" I hope NO ONE would make him that cake. See?

It's not the person, it's the message or the event. For everyone. And again that goes all ways.

So it's wrong to and a sign but not wrong to deny service because a person is gay?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

And it is the person. Because if a gay couple wanted a wedding cake to eat at home by themselves that bigot Christian still wouldn't bake it for them

Do not insult me or yourself with "wedding cake to eat at home by themselves"

Lots of people have weddings at home.

My wife and I did I don't have any family and my wife only has one sister.

I don't eat cake so we didn't have one.

But even that excuse that it's not the gay people it's the wedding is an insult to every reasonable person's intelligence

Then it's still a wedding cake. Point stands

And so what?

What if it was a civil service which Christian Churches don't recognize anyway?

Why would some Christian baker bake a cake for two hetero people who would not be married by the church and therefore be living in sin according to their church?

But we know that sin is OK with the baker right?

Why are you into forcing free Americans into violating their conscience just because they have an "open for business" sign on their door? I am not. Remember: I am not for ANY one. I am not for gay people who are asked by Christians to bake a cake that has Bible verses on it. Or for Blacks who are asked to bake a cake for a Klu Klux Klan event.

Opening a business in America does not rope you into indentured servitude. Period.

ETA: to be more specific to your question: it's not that a gay marriage is a worse than other sins; it's that the very event makes the sin OBVIOUS. I would hope the same baker would refuse to make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife" or even a Divorce Party Cake.

This is not so difficult.

That's such crap.

It's only the gay sin that these so called Christians care about. They don't give a shit about any other sin ans will happily make a cake for adulterers, rapists, murderers and thieves.

It's pure hypocrisy

What does a gay marriage celebrate? Isn't that obvious?

You think a Christian would make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife"? Or "Happy Divorce Party"?

Maybe you can just admit YOUR bias against Christians and be done with it

And I bet your devout sinless baker is happy to make wedding cakes for people who don't get married by a priest in a church even though that's "celebrating sin"

No it's not. It's a correction of sin. What on earth are you talking about?

Your pure as snow baker would bake a wedding cake for a hetero couple married by a JP even though the the church doesn't recognize those marriages therefore that couple is living in sin. So that would be a cake to "celebrate" sin.

What church doesn't recognize that marriage? What are you talking about?

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.




It's the same thing they think about gay marriages

So you are saying that all the people who are in churches now, who are married, who were married before they were Christians....all of them had to be re-married by the Christian church if they had "civil marriages" because the church does not consider their marriages valid?

WOW. That's amazing. And to think no one has ever heard of this.

I have.

My wife was raised Catholic and we didn't get married by the church and her priest said that they don't recognize our marriage.

 

[Blues Man]

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.

More accurately: Any Ivy League University would say I am not one of their graduates, but I would still be recognized as a graduate of a State university. In the same way, a Church would note that while they did not make wedding vows before God, the marriage is legal due to the fact vows were made before the State.

It may be legal but that doesn't mean the church recognizes it as a sacramental marriage.

Catholic Wedding Help: Can we be married in a civil ceremony before our Catholic wedding?

Can you get married in a civil ceremony and then have a Catholic wedding in a church? Read on to find out!

catholicweddinghelp.com

All Catholics (and in the situation you raise, namely a Catholic and non-Catholic) who exchange vows in the presence of civil officials are not considered validly married in the eyes of the Catholic Church. If they marry in a civil ceremony and are living with their spouse, they should not present themselves to receive Holy Communion.

 

[Meriweather]

It may be legal but that doesn't mean the church recognizes it as a sacramental marriage.

That's because it is not a sacramental marriage any more than a State University graduate is considered an Ivy League graduate. Is it right for someone who is not an Ivy League alumnus to receive those benefits? Catholicism, as any faith, is a way of life. Receiving communion is a declaration that one is in communion with a sacramental life. Why would someone want to declare something that is not true?

A civil union is not a sacramental union.

 

[SweetSue92]

I cannot believe that in 2021 gay people and their allies are still WHINING about Christians not baking them a cake.

Gay Americans are appropriately defending themselves against discrimination in public accommodations by the bigoted, hateful Christian right; that gay Americans are still being subject to such discrimination in 2021 is reprehensible.

If gay Americans purposely go into a shop owned by a Christian, when other shops are available, they are being whining babies. Full stop.

And how is anyone to know if the owners of a store are Christian or not?

Gays have been hounding the owner of that bakery in Colorado for years now. Out of spite. Jerk moves out of jerk people.

You said people should not go to stores with Christian owners how is anyone supposed to know if the owners of a store are Christian until after they illustrate their bigotry?

And I have no doubt that Christians would sue any store owner who refused them service because they were Christian

Just another example of religious hypocrisy

I don't think that, in America, you should be forced to create something just because you hang a sign "Open for Business" outside your window. I believe I have been clear in the past that I feel this goes all ways. I don't believe we have to be eggheads about this. There is a clear difference between a business owner who won't serve Black people, say, and a Christian business owner who won't bake cakes for gay weddings, but will bake cakes for gay PEOPLE for birthdays, retirements, etc. Or, GAY BAKERS who will serve Christian PEOPLE but won't bake a cake with verses from Leviticus on it.

I do not believe simply opening a business means you are in indentured servitude to create whatever for whomever, because they say so. That's freedom. It goes absolutely both ways. So to the gay people marching in, one after another to the Christian baker to just "make him do it", I say, take your last stand somewhere else; you're just being jerks. I would say the same to fellow Christians trying to force gay bakers to write Bible verses on a cake.

Such bull

If a shop owner hung a sign that said "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED" all you Christians would be dragging his ass to court

I don't like dealing with false equivalencies and you're smart enough to spot this one. So stop. Don't waste my time.

It's a perfectly valid example.

Tell me why would a "Christian " baker want to bake a cake for a murderer or an adulterer but not for a couple people who never hurt anyone?

I'm going to say this one more time, just one more.

If a Christian has a sign or makes known "I don't serve GAYS" that's wrong. Did I not make this clear in my last post about Blacks? Okay now I will. Just like if a gay baker has a sign that say "I don't serve CHRISTIANS".

If a murderer comes in and says I need cupcakes for a birthday party, what's the harm? How is any baker going to know? They wouldn't. If a murderer comes in and says "I want a cake that says 'I am going to kill my wife'" I hope NO ONE would make him that cake. See?

It's not the person, it's the message or the event. For everyone. And again that goes all ways.

So it's wrong to and a sign but not wrong to deny service because a person is gay?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

And it is the person. Because if a gay couple wanted a wedding cake to eat at home by themselves that bigot Christian still wouldn't bake it for them

Do not insult me or yourself with "wedding cake to eat at home by themselves"

Lots of people have weddings at home.

My wife and I did I don't have any family and my wife only has one sister.

I don't eat cake so we didn't have one.

But even that excuse that it's not the gay people it's the wedding is an insult to every reasonable person's intelligence

Then it's still a wedding cake. Point stands

And so what?

What if it was a civil service which Christian Churches don't recognize anyway?

Why would some Christian baker bake a cake for two hetero people who would not be married by the church and therefore be living in sin according to their church?

But we know that sin is OK with the baker right?

Why are you into forcing free Americans into violating their conscience just because they have an "open for business" sign on their door? I am not. Remember: I am not for ANY one. I am not for gay people who are asked by Christians to bake a cake that has Bible verses on it. Or for Blacks who are asked to bake a cake for a Klu Klux Klan event.

Opening a business in America does not rope you into indentured servitude. Period.

ETA: to be more specific to your question: it's not that a gay marriage is a worse than other sins; it's that the very event makes the sin OBVIOUS. I would hope the same baker would refuse to make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife" or even a Divorce Party Cake.

This is not so difficult.

That's such crap.

It's only the gay sin that these so called Christians care about. They don't give a shit about any other sin ans will happily make a cake for adulterers, rapists, murderers and thieves.

It's pure hypocrisy

What does a gay marriage celebrate? Isn't that obvious?

You think a Christian would make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife"? Or "Happy Divorce Party"?

Maybe you can just admit YOUR bias against Christians and be done with it

And I bet your devout sinless baker is happy to make wedding cakes for people who don't get married by a priest in a church even though that's "celebrating sin"

No it's not. It's a correction of sin. What on earth are you talking about?

Your pure as snow baker would bake a wedding cake for a hetero couple married by a JP even though the the church doesn't recognize those marriages therefore that couple is living in sin. So that would be a cake to "celebrate" sin.

What church doesn't recognize that marriage? What are you talking about?

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.




It's the same thing they think about gay marriages

So you are saying that all the people who are in churches now, who are married, who were married before they were Christians....all of them had to be re-married by the Christian church if they had "civil marriages" because the church does not consider their marriages valid?

WOW. That's amazing. And to think no one has ever heard of this.

I have.

My wife was raised Catholic and we didn't get married by the church and her priest said that they don't recognize our marriage.

That's only Catholics you know. Because they consider marriage a sacrament and they want control over all of them. That's ONLY Catholics; the rest of Christendom does not consider everyone else's marriage a sin.

 

[Meriweather]

That's only Catholics you know. Because they consider marriage a sacrament and they want control over all of them. That's ONLY Catholics; the rest of Christendom does not consider everyone else's marriage a sin.

Nor do Catholics. The sacrament of marriage pertains only to Catholics as most other Christian sects do not observe all sacraments. Again, let's look at universities: The rules at one university do not pertain to students at another university.

Practicing Catholics are expected to live a sacramental life. The last thing we expect is for other faiths and sects to copy Catholics.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's only Catholics you know. Because they consider marriage a sacrament and they want control over all of them. That's ONLY Catholics; the rest of Christendom does not consider everyone else's marriage a sin.

Nor do Catholics. The sacrament of marriage pertains only to Catholics as most other Christian sects do not observe all sacraments. Again, let's look at universities: The rules at one university do not pertain to students at another university.

Practicing Catholics are expected to live a sacramental life. The last thing we expect is for other faiths and sects to copy Catholics.

Right that's a fair point--Catholics DO recognize that other people's marriages are not sinful (and are good) because they are in alignment with God's plan, even if they weren't done in a church. True.

 

[presonorek]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Christians: God Hates Fags

According to the first chapter of Roman's homosexuality isn't a sin. Homosexuality is a way to reveal those who have repeatedly rejected God. Folks who say sex is a sin is not educated on New Testament teaching on homosexuality.

Just because the verses don't literally use the word "sin" does not mean the Bible doesn't mean "sin" there. The entire passage you refer means sin. Rejecting God--blasphemy--is the sin against the Holy Spirit. The rest are just what you might call "garden variety sins"--but sins they are.

Homosexuality is a manifestation of a reprobate. The average person isn’t tempted to commit homosexual acts. Adultery, stealing, lying, drunkenness, and witchcraft (manipulation) are sins that we are all tempted with. People aren’t tempted to be gay. Homosexuality is in a category of its own. You can repent from adultery. You can repent from stealing. Repenting from homosexuality does a person no good. You need to read Romans Chapter 1 again. It isn’t ambiguous at all. It is pretty clear cut. People are just uncomfortable accepting New Testament teaching on homosexuality. Christians prefer using the Old Testament teaching on homosexuality. These filthy reprobates are worthy of death according to the New Testament. There is no repentance for homosexuality. However, I applaud you for using your brain and ignoring the Bible. There is some stupid stuff in there.

By the way, I haven’t seen you in a long time. I thought you stopped using USMessage.

 

[presonorek]

Would it be better if I was a con artist who lied and said I believed in God? It just seems like my Biblical interpretations have more credibility when you act as a con artist as opposed to being honest. Any thoughts?

Does your opinion on the Bible carry more weight when you pretend you believe it than just using your brain to analyze words and being honest? Any thoughts? In any case I think the Bible says what the Bible says regardless of any external factors or personalities. Just my two cents.

 

[Blues Man]

It may be legal but that doesn't mean the church recognizes it as a sacramental marriage.

That's because it is not a sacramental marriage any more than a State University graduate is considered an Ivy League graduate. Is it right for someone who is not an Ivy League alumnus to receive those benefits? Catholicism, as any faith, is a way of life. Receiving communion is a declaration that one is in communion with a sacramental life. Why would someone want to declare something that is not true?

A civil union is not a sacramental union.

Which is why the church doesn't recognize them.

So if a Christian baker is worried about making cakes for people who the church says are living in sin aka homosexuals then that same baker should refuse to make wedding cakes for people who do not get married in a religious ceremony because those people are living in sin as well

 

[Blues Man]

That's only Catholics you know. Because they consider marriage a sacrament and they want control over all of them. That's ONLY Catholics; the rest of Christendom does not consider everyone else's marriage a sin.

Nor do Catholics. The sacrament of marriage pertains only to Catholics as most other Christian sects do not observe all sacraments. Again, let's look at universities: The rules at one university do not pertain to students at another university.

Practicing Catholics are expected to live a sacramental life. The last thing we expect is for other faiths and sects to copy Catholics.

Right that's a fair point--Catholics DO recognize that other people's marriages are not sinful (and are good) because they are in alignment with God's plan, even if they weren't done in a church. True.

Then why does the Catholic church tell people who marry a non Catholic in a civil ceremony not to take communion?

 

[Blues Man]

I cannot believe that in 2021 gay people and their allies are still WHINING about Christians not baking them a cake.

Gay Americans are appropriately defending themselves against discrimination in public accommodations by the bigoted, hateful Christian right; that gay Americans are still being subject to such discrimination in 2021 is reprehensible.

If gay Americans purposely go into a shop owned by a Christian, when other shops are available, they are being whining babies. Full stop.

And how is anyone to know if the owners of a store are Christian or not?

Gays have been hounding the owner of that bakery in Colorado for years now. Out of spite. Jerk moves out of jerk people.

You said people should not go to stores with Christian owners how is anyone supposed to know if the owners of a store are Christian until after they illustrate their bigotry?

And I have no doubt that Christians would sue any store owner who refused them service because they were Christian

Just another example of religious hypocrisy

I don't think that, in America, you should be forced to create something just because you hang a sign "Open for Business" outside your window. I believe I have been clear in the past that I feel this goes all ways. I don't believe we have to be eggheads about this. There is a clear difference between a business owner who won't serve Black people, say, and a Christian business owner who won't bake cakes for gay weddings, but will bake cakes for gay PEOPLE for birthdays, retirements, etc. Or, GAY BAKERS who will serve Christian PEOPLE but won't bake a cake with verses from Leviticus on it.

I do not believe simply opening a business means you are in indentured servitude to create whatever for whomever, because they say so. That's freedom. It goes absolutely both ways. So to the gay people marching in, one after another to the Christian baker to just "make him do it", I say, take your last stand somewhere else; you're just being jerks. I would say the same to fellow Christians trying to force gay bakers to write Bible verses on a cake.

Such bull

If a shop owner hung a sign that said "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED" all you Christians would be dragging his ass to court

I don't like dealing with false equivalencies and you're smart enough to spot this one. So stop. Don't waste my time.

It's a perfectly valid example.

Tell me why would a "Christian " baker want to bake a cake for a murderer or an adulterer but not for a couple people who never hurt anyone?

I'm going to say this one more time, just one more.

If a Christian has a sign or makes known "I don't serve GAYS" that's wrong. Did I not make this clear in my last post about Blacks? Okay now I will. Just like if a gay baker has a sign that say "I don't serve CHRISTIANS".

If a murderer comes in and says I need cupcakes for a birthday party, what's the harm? How is any baker going to know? They wouldn't. If a murderer comes in and says "I want a cake that says 'I am going to kill my wife'" I hope NO ONE would make him that cake. See?

It's not the person, it's the message or the event. For everyone. And again that goes all ways.

So it's wrong to and a sign but not wrong to deny service because a person is gay?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

And it is the person. Because if a gay couple wanted a wedding cake to eat at home by themselves that bigot Christian still wouldn't bake it for them

Do not insult me or yourself with "wedding cake to eat at home by themselves"

Lots of people have weddings at home.

My wife and I did I don't have any family and my wife only has one sister.

I don't eat cake so we didn't have one.

But even that excuse that it's not the gay people it's the wedding is an insult to every reasonable person's intelligence

Then it's still a wedding cake. Point stands

And so what?

What if it was a civil service which Christian Churches don't recognize anyway?

Why would some Christian baker bake a cake for two hetero people who would not be married by the church and therefore be living in sin according to their church?

But we know that sin is OK with the baker right?

Why are you into forcing free Americans into violating their conscience just because they have an "open for business" sign on their door? I am not. Remember: I am not for ANY one. I am not for gay people who are asked by Christians to bake a cake that has Bible verses on it. Or for Blacks who are asked to bake a cake for a Klu Klux Klan event.

Opening a business in America does not rope you into indentured servitude. Period.

ETA: to be more specific to your question: it's not that a gay marriage is a worse than other sins; it's that the very event makes the sin OBVIOUS. I would hope the same baker would refuse to make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife" or even a Divorce Party Cake.

This is not so difficult.

That's such crap.

It's only the gay sin that these so called Christians care about. They don't give a shit about any other sin ans will happily make a cake for adulterers, rapists, murderers and thieves.

It's pure hypocrisy

What does a gay marriage celebrate? Isn't that obvious?

You think a Christian would make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife"? Or "Happy Divorce Party"?

Maybe you can just admit YOUR bias against Christians and be done with it

And I bet your devout sinless baker is happy to make wedding cakes for people who don't get married by a priest in a church even though that's "celebrating sin"

No it's not. It's a correction of sin. What on earth are you talking about?

Your pure as snow baker would bake a wedding cake for a hetero couple married by a JP even though the the church doesn't recognize those marriages therefore that couple is living in sin. So that would be a cake to "celebrate" sin.

What church doesn't recognize that marriage? What are you talking about?

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.




It's the same thing they think about gay marriages

So you are saying that all the people who are in churches now, who are married, who were married before they were Christians....all of them had to be re-married by the Christian church if they had "civil marriages" because the church does not consider their marriages valid?

WOW. That's amazing. And to think no one has ever heard of this.

I have.

My wife was raised Catholic and we didn't get married by the church and her priest said that they don't recognize our marriage.

That's only Catholics you know. Because they consider marriage a sacrament and they want control over all of them. That's ONLY Catholics; the rest of Christendom does not consider everyone else's marriage a sin.

So other Christians don't consider marriage a sacrament?

If that's true then why is this Baker you're always talking about worried about gay marriage?

 

[SweetSue92]

That's only Catholics you know. Because they consider marriage a sacrament and they want control over all of them. That's ONLY Catholics; the rest of Christendom does not consider everyone else's marriage a sin.

Nor do Catholics. The sacrament of marriage pertains only to Catholics as most other Christian sects do not observe all sacraments. Again, let's look at universities: The rules at one university do not pertain to students at another university.

Practicing Catholics are expected to live a sacramental life. The last thing we expect is for other faiths and sects to copy Catholics.

Right that's a fair point--Catholics DO recognize that other people's marriages are not sinful (and are good) because they are in alignment with God's plan, even if they weren't done in a church. True.

Then why does the Catholic church tell people who marry a non Catholic in a civil ceremony not to take communion?

I am a born again Christian and have been for 20 years. My in laws are Catholic. *I* cannot take Communion at their church. I don't know what to tell you. They really, really love their rules. It's a Catholic thing. Most Catholics individually are lovely, God-fearing people. But the Catholic Church has a lot of rules, most not in the Bible. That's all.

 

[SweetSue92]

I cannot believe that in 2021 gay people and their allies are still WHINING about Christians not baking them a cake.

Gay Americans are appropriately defending themselves against discrimination in public accommodations by the bigoted, hateful Christian right; that gay Americans are still being subject to such discrimination in 2021 is reprehensible.

If gay Americans purposely go into a shop owned by a Christian, when other shops are available, they are being whining babies. Full stop.

And how is anyone to know if the owners of a store are Christian or not?

Gays have been hounding the owner of that bakery in Colorado for years now. Out of spite. Jerk moves out of jerk people.

You said people should not go to stores with Christian owners how is anyone supposed to know if the owners of a store are Christian until after they illustrate their bigotry?

And I have no doubt that Christians would sue any store owner who refused them service because they were Christian

Just another example of religious hypocrisy

I don't think that, in America, you should be forced to create something just because you hang a sign "Open for Business" outside your window. I believe I have been clear in the past that I feel this goes all ways. I don't believe we have to be eggheads about this. There is a clear difference between a business owner who won't serve Black people, say, and a Christian business owner who won't bake cakes for gay weddings, but will bake cakes for gay PEOPLE for birthdays, retirements, etc. Or, GAY BAKERS who will serve Christian PEOPLE but won't bake a cake with verses from Leviticus on it.

I do not believe simply opening a business means you are in indentured servitude to create whatever for whomever, because they say so. That's freedom. It goes absolutely both ways. So to the gay people marching in, one after another to the Christian baker to just "make him do it", I say, take your last stand somewhere else; you're just being jerks. I would say the same to fellow Christians trying to force gay bakers to write Bible verses on a cake.

Such bull

If a shop owner hung a sign that said "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED" all you Christians would be dragging his ass to court

I don't like dealing with false equivalencies and you're smart enough to spot this one. So stop. Don't waste my time.

It's a perfectly valid example.

Tell me why would a "Christian " baker want to bake a cake for a murderer or an adulterer but not for a couple people who never hurt anyone?

I'm going to say this one more time, just one more.

If a Christian has a sign or makes known "I don't serve GAYS" that's wrong. Did I not make this clear in my last post about Blacks? Okay now I will. Just like if a gay baker has a sign that say "I don't serve CHRISTIANS".

If a murderer comes in and says I need cupcakes for a birthday party, what's the harm? How is any baker going to know? They wouldn't. If a murderer comes in and says "I want a cake that says 'I am going to kill my wife'" I hope NO ONE would make him that cake. See?

It's not the person, it's the message or the event. For everyone. And again that goes all ways.

So it's wrong to and a sign but not wrong to deny service because a person is gay?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

And it is the person. Because if a gay couple wanted a wedding cake to eat at home by themselves that bigot Christian still wouldn't bake it for them

Do not insult me or yourself with "wedding cake to eat at home by themselves"

Lots of people have weddings at home.

My wife and I did I don't have any family and my wife only has one sister.

I don't eat cake so we didn't have one.

But even that excuse that it's not the gay people it's the wedding is an insult to every reasonable person's intelligence

Then it's still a wedding cake. Point stands

And so what?

What if it was a civil service which Christian Churches don't recognize anyway?

Why would some Christian baker bake a cake for two hetero people who would not be married by the church and therefore be living in sin according to their church?

But we know that sin is OK with the baker right?

Why are you into forcing free Americans into violating their conscience just because they have an "open for business" sign on their door? I am not. Remember: I am not for ANY one. I am not for gay people who are asked by Christians to bake a cake that has Bible verses on it. Or for Blacks who are asked to bake a cake for a Klu Klux Klan event.

Opening a business in America does not rope you into indentured servitude. Period.

ETA: to be more specific to your question: it's not that a gay marriage is a worse than other sins; it's that the very event makes the sin OBVIOUS. I would hope the same baker would refuse to make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife" or even a Divorce Party Cake.

This is not so difficult.

That's such crap.

It's only the gay sin that these so called Christians care about. They don't give a shit about any other sin ans will happily make a cake for adulterers, rapists, murderers and thieves.

It's pure hypocrisy

What does a gay marriage celebrate? Isn't that obvious?

You think a Christian would make a cake that says "I'm going to kill my wife"? Or "Happy Divorce Party"?

Maybe you can just admit YOUR bias against Christians and be done with it

And I bet your devout sinless baker is happy to make wedding cakes for people who don't get married by a priest in a church even though that's "celebrating sin"

No it's not. It's a correction of sin. What on earth are you talking about?

Your pure as snow baker would bake a wedding cake for a hetero couple married by a JP even though the the church doesn't recognize those marriages therefore that couple is living in sin. So that would be a cake to "celebrate" sin.

What church doesn't recognize that marriage? What are you talking about?

Civil marriages because they aren't done with any mention of gods aren't seen as a sacrament by any Christian church therefore they are not valid in the eyes of the church.




It's the same thing they think about gay marriages

So you are saying that all the people who are in churches now, who are married, who were married before they were Christians....all of them had to be re-married by the Christian church if they had "civil marriages" because the church does not consider their marriages valid?

WOW. That's amazing. And to think no one has ever heard of this.

I have.

My wife was raised Catholic and we didn't get married by the church and her priest said that they don't recognize our marriage.

That's only Catholics you know. Because they consider marriage a sacrament and they want control over all of them. That's ONLY Catholics; the rest of Christendom does not consider everyone else's marriage a sin.

So other Christians don't consider marriage a sacrament?

If that's true then why is this Baker you're always talking about worried about gay marriage?

Maybe, I don't know. It's just not a big fat deal in churches that are not Catholic. Catholic churches are rather like clubs with levels and rules you have to follow to be at this level to be able to do this.

He is not willing to create the cake using his God-given talents to endorse an event that he feels is rooted in sin. In America he should have that freedom. Put another way. If you were a songwriter-for-hire, maybe you wouldn't want to write a song about how wonderful these verses in Leviticus are. According to this law you uphold, "non-discrimination", you might have to. Because you can't discriminate against religion.