Let us call the trump tantrum what it REALLY WAS....an attempted Coup!

[martybegan]

Again, are you saying no president has ever used foreign aid to get a country to do what it wants them to do?

Hahahaha not at all. I'm saying when Trump asked the Ukraine President to announce an investigation into Trumps chief political rival in the next election, (or he wouldn't get the aid), that was the corrupt act. Not simply using foreign aid to get a country to follow US policy.

So if it wasn't Biden's son it would be OK?

You are saying be the son of a Presidential candidate gives you immunity from investigation?

Nice sidestep.

Nice non-answer.

 

[Faun]

Trump's GSA tells Biden the transition can begin. But let's not sugarcoat this failed coup.

Establishing a line here is a critical function of journalism. Which is why it's important for the media to call what Trump's campaign tried to set in motion an attempted coup.

www.msnbc.com

SO...we had an Authoritarian Wannabe that was intent on taking the vote and the will of the people away. This is the same man who wanted his AG to arrest his political opponents in the last few weeks of the election. Now he was prepared to pull out his Dictator magic wand and wish away millions of legal votes. AND THE GOP WAS SITTING ON THEIR HANDS READY TO ALLOW HIM TO DO IT.

Now...tell me how either the GOP or trump can be trusted to govern this country again? The Party of Lincoln has become the Taliban of the United States.

"legal"

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

The simple fact is there simply isn't enough time to prove enough fraud, even if it happened, in the time given between the election and the certifications.

If the fraud is proven a year from now, would you condemn it? Would Biden Step down?

He has had more than ample time to prove his case. The nations top CONSERVATIVE legal teams have all stepped away from this lie of fraud. Can not you see?.....trump has been lying through the entirely of this Regime. It all started when he lied about the size of his inauguration and his hands....and he has not stopped in four years.

You should have gotten a hint when he appointed dye bleeding Rudy to head his case. He was the last attorney in the country who was willing to peddle trump's fraud lie.

There will never be enough fraud proven to overturn this election. The incompetence and audacity of a Narcissistic Sociopath doomed his own re-election when he decided to LIE to the American People about a deadly virus. That is what took trump down. Did God send the Pandemic to save America from Authoritarianism? Think about it.....

Wow, now it "enough fraud to overturn" instead of no fraud.

What a goalpost moving little shit you are.

Don't be a horse's ars....there are always irregularities in the vote...and some fraud was found by committed by REPUBLICANS.

Backstory: We investigated claims of voter fraud in the election. Here's what we found.

Are USA TODAY reporters looking into Trump's allegations of voter fraud during the 2020 election? The short answer is yes, but many are not credible.

www.usatoday.com

Yet the irregularities that mattered all happened in large Dem controlled areas, and all helped Biden get elected.

Yet the house went more to Republicans, yet many States went more to republicans, yet many republican areas in the States where the cities had issues went more to republicans.

Yet the Senate is a toss-up in a year where Dems had an easier chance of gains.

And all in a year where early and mail in voting made it easier to cheat.

Oh? What was different this year than others that made mail-in ballots easier to cheat?

 

[Faun]

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

Considering that he attempted to strong arm an ally, with US foreign aid, into performing a political favor and corrupt act, and the Banana Republicans accepted that corruption. Why would they consider him inappropriately injecting himself into a few states legislatures a corruption problem?

Wow, back to calling usual political maneuvering some sort of crime....

but but but somehow its different when Trump does it because of "reasons"

When did I call those acts a crime? The corrupt acts I described are not usual political maneuverings. They are not crimes codified in laws because nobody ever thought a President, or should I say a political party, would let a President get away with such blatant corruption.

But I suppose if Nixon had Faux News, the party might haave stood behind him.

Corruption is a crime. Again, are you saying no president has ever used foreign aid to get a country to do what it wants them to do?

Isn't that the whole ******* purpose of foreign aid?

Where is the law that says a president can't use foreign aid like that? Only one Republican Senator voted to convict.

80 million Americans voted to convict.

74 Million didn't. That's a hung jury, not a conviction.

LOLOLOL

Not in American politics, it's not.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Trump's GSA tells Biden the transition can begin. But let's not sugarcoat this failed coup.

Establishing a line here is a critical function of journalism. Which is why it's important for the media to call what Trump's campaign tried to set in motion an attempted coup.

www.msnbc.com

SO...we had an Authoritarian Wannabe that was intent on taking the vote and the will of the people away. This is the same man who wanted his AG to arrest his political opponents in the last few weeks of the election. Now he was prepared to pull out his Dictator magic wand and wish away millions of legal votes. AND THE GOP WAS SITTING ON THEIR HANDS READY TO ALLOW HIM TO DO IT.

Now...tell me how either the GOP or trump can be trusted to govern this country again? The Party of Lincoln has become the Taliban of the United States.

"legal"

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

The simple fact is there simply isn't enough time to prove enough fraud, even if it happened, in the time given between the election and the certifications.

If the fraud is proven a year from now, would you condemn it? Would Biden Step down?

He has had more than ample time to prove his case. The nations top CONSERVATIVE legal teams have all stepped away from this lie of fraud. Can not you see?.....trump has been lying through the entirely of this Regime. It all started when he lied about the size of his inauguration and his hands....and he has not stopped in four years.

You should have gotten a hint when he appointed dye bleeding Rudy to head his case. He was the last attorney in the country who was willing to peddle trump's fraud lie.

There will never be enough fraud proven to overturn this election. The incompetence and audacity of a Narcissistic Sociopath doomed his own re-election when he decided to LIE to the American People about a deadly virus. That is what took trump down. Did God send the Pandemic to save America from Authoritarianism? Think about it.....

Wow, now it "enough fraud to overturn" instead of no fraud.

What a goalpost moving little shit you are.

Don't be a horse's ars....there are always irregularities in the vote...and some fraud was found by committed by REPUBLICANS.

Backstory: We investigated claims of voter fraud in the election. Here's what we found.

Are USA TODAY reporters looking into Trump's allegations of voter fraud during the 2020 election? The short answer is yes, but many are not credible.

www.usatoday.com

Yet the irregularities that mattered all happened in large Dem controlled areas, and all helped Biden get elected.

Yet the house went more to Republicans, yet many States went more to republicans, yet many republican areas in the States where the cities had issues went more to republicans.

Yet the Senate is a toss-up in a year where Dems had an easier chance of gains.

And all in a year where early and mail in voting made it easier to cheat.

Oh? What was different this year than others that made mail-in ballots easier to cheat?

And harder to keep many from voting with dirty tactics so I guess it evened out.

 

[bendog]

Trump's GSA tells Biden the transition can begin. But let's not sugarcoat this failed coup.

Establishing a line here is a critical function of journalism. Which is why it's important for the media to call what Trump's campaign tried to set in motion an attempted coup.

www.msnbc.com

SO...we had an Authoritarian Wannabe that was intent on taking the vote and the will of the people away. This is the same man who wanted his AG to arrest his political opponents in the last few weeks of the election. Now he was prepared to pull out his Dictator magic wand and wish away millions of legal votes. AND THE GOP WAS SITTING ON THEIR HANDS READY TO ALLOW HIM TO DO IT.

Now...tell me how either the GOP or trump can be trusted to govern this country again? The Party of Lincoln has become the Taliban of the United States.

"legal"

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

The simple fact is there simply isn't enough time to prove enough fraud, even if it happened, in the time given between the election and the certifications.

If the fraud is proven a year from now, would you condemn it? Would Biden Step down?

He has had more than ample time to prove his case. The nations top CONSERVATIVE legal teams have all stepped away from this lie of fraud. Can not you see?.....trump has been lying through the entirely of this Regime. It all started when he lied about the size of his inauguration and his hands....and he has not stopped in four years.

You should have gotten a hint when he appointed dye bleeding Rudy to head his case. He was the last attorney in the country who was willing to peddle trump's fraud lie.

There will never be enough fraud proven to overturn this election. The incompetence and audacity of a Narcissistic Sociopath doomed his own re-election when he decided to LIE to the American People about a deadly virus. That is what took trump down. Did God send the Pandemic to save America from Authoritarianism? Think about it.....

Wow, now it "enough fraud to overturn" instead of no fraud.

What a goalpost moving little shit you are.

Don't be a horse's ars....there are always irregularities in the vote...and some fraud was found by committed by REPUBLICANS.

Backstory: We investigated claims of voter fraud in the election. Here's what we found.

Are USA TODAY reporters looking into Trump's allegations of voter fraud during the 2020 election? The short answer is yes, but many are not credible.

www.usatoday.com

Yet the irregularities that mattered all happened in large Dem controlled areas, and all helped Biden get elected.

Yet the house went more to Republicans, yet many States went more to republicans, yet many republican areas in the States where the cities had issues went more to republicans.

Yet the Senate is a toss-up in a year where Dems had an easier chance of gains.

And all in a year where early and mail in voting made it easier to cheat.

Oh? What was different this year than others that made mail-in ballots easier to cheat?

And harder to keep many from voting with dirty tactics so I guess it evened out.

The gop successes in House races, and even more so in defying State House elections that the Dems expected to win, definitively shows there was no massive cheating with mail in ballots. Trump lost decisively on his response, or non-response, to the virus and possibly his personality. But on other issues, the GOP sort of won. That's the message for both parties going forward. jmo

 

[BlindBoo]

Again, are you saying no president has ever used foreign aid to get a country to do what it wants them to do?

Hahahaha not at all. I'm saying when Trump asked the Ukraine President to announce an investigation into Trumps chief political rival in the next election, (or he wouldn't get the aid), that was the corrupt act. Not simply using foreign aid to get a country to follow US policy.

So if it wasn't Biden's son it would be OK?

You are saying be the son of a Presidential candidate gives you immunity from investigation?

Nice sidestep.

Nice non-answer.

I answered your clarifying question about what distinguishes Trumps corrupt act from the normal quid pro quo foreign politics. Like what as VP Biden carried out in the Ukraine.

 

[BlindBoo]

Trump's GSA tells Biden the transition can begin. But let's not sugarcoat this failed coup.

Establishing a line here is a critical function of journalism. Which is why it's important for the media to call what Trump's campaign tried to set in motion an attempted coup.

www.msnbc.com

SO...we had an Authoritarian Wannabe that was intent on taking the vote and the will of the people away. This is the same man who wanted his AG to arrest his political opponents in the last few weeks of the election. Now he was prepared to pull out his Dictator magic wand and wish away millions of legal votes. AND THE GOP WAS SITTING ON THEIR HANDS READY TO ALLOW HIM TO DO IT.

Now...tell me how either the GOP or trump can be trusted to govern this country again? The Party of Lincoln has become the Taliban of the United States.

"legal"

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

The simple fact is there simply isn't enough time to prove enough fraud, even if it happened, in the time given between the election and the certifications.

If the fraud is proven a year from now, would you condemn it? Would Biden Step down?

He has had more than ample time to prove his case. The nations top CONSERVATIVE legal teams have all stepped away from this lie of fraud. Can not you see?.....trump has been lying through the entirely of this Regime. It all started when he lied about the size of his inauguration and his hands....and he has not stopped in four years.

You should have gotten a hint when he appointed dye bleeding Rudy to head his case. He was the last attorney in the country who was willing to peddle trump's fraud lie.

There will never be enough fraud proven to overturn this election. The incompetence and audacity of a Narcissistic Sociopath doomed his own re-election when he decided to LIE to the American People about a deadly virus. That is what took trump down. Did God send the Pandemic to save America from Authoritarianism? Think about it.....

Wow, now it "enough fraud to overturn" instead of no fraud.

What a goalpost moving little shit you are.

Don't be a horse's ars....there are always irregularities in the vote...and some fraud was found by committed by REPUBLICANS.

Backstory: We investigated claims of voter fraud in the election. Here's what we found.

Are USA TODAY reporters looking into Trump's allegations of voter fraud during the 2020 election? The short answer is yes, but many are not credible.

www.usatoday.com

Yet the irregularities that mattered all happened in large Dem controlled areas, and all helped Biden get elected.

Yet the house went more to Republicans, yet many States went more to republicans, yet many republican areas in the States where the cities had issues went more to republicans.

Yet the Senate is a toss-up in a year where Dems had an easier chance of gains.

And all in a year where early and mail in voting made it easier to cheat.

Oh? What was different this year than others that made mail-in ballots easier to cheat?

And harder to keep many from voting with dirty tactics so I guess it evened out.

The gop successes in House races, and even more so in defying State House elections that the Dems expected to win, definitively shows there was no massive cheating with mail in ballots. Trump lost decisively on his response, or non-response, to the virus and possibly his personality. But on other issues, the GOP sort of won. That's the message for both parties going forward. jmo

I think it shows the real reason, or one of the reasons, Trump lost is because of the Republicans who refused to vote for him but voted all GOP down ballot.

 

[rightwinger]

It did help. It got Biden elected and Impeached Trump kicked to the curb. And even better than just winning the election, the cherry on top was the rightwing of America, led by Impeached Trump, melting down over their election fraud hoax.

Republican Senators were willing to ignore Trumps illicit behavior.

The American voters were not.

 

[Lesh]

74 Million didn't. That's a hung jury, not a conviction.

Juries need to be unanimous

Elections don't

 

[Faun]

74 Million didn't. That's a hung jury, not a conviction.

Juries need to be unanimous

Elections don't

That's below Marty's limited IQ.

 

[rightwinger]

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

Considering that he attempted to strong arm an ally, with US foreign aid, into performing a political favor and corrupt act, and the Banana Republicans accepted that corruption. Why would they consider him inappropriately injecting himself into a few states legislatures a corruption problem?

Wow, back to calling usual political maneuvering some sort of crime....

but but but somehow its different when Trump does it because of "reasons"

When did I call those acts a crime? The corrupt acts I described are not usual political maneuverings. They are not crimes codified in laws because nobody ever thought a President, or should I say a political party, would let a President get away with such blatant corruption.

But I suppose if Nixon had Faux News, the party might haave stood behind him.

Corruption is a crime. Again, are you saying no president has ever used foreign aid to get a country to do what it wants them to do?

Isn't that the whole ******* purpose of foreign aid?

the purpose of foreign aid is certainly not to get the foreign country to sling mud for you against your likely opponent. lol.

Wow, talk about being ignorant.

you want to make the case that foreign aid is for that purpose, fatso? i would not be surprised.

It's always been the case, it's just different for Trump because of "reasons"

The “reasons” in this case were Trump demanding personal favors in return for military aid.

Got him impeached

 

[Faun]

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

Considering that he attempted to strong arm an ally, with US foreign aid, into performing a political favor and corrupt act, and the Banana Republicans accepted that corruption. Why would they consider him inappropriately injecting himself into a few states legislatures a corruption problem?

Wow, back to calling usual political maneuvering some sort of crime....

but but but somehow its different when Trump does it because of "reasons"

When did I call those acts a crime? The corrupt acts I described are not usual political maneuverings. They are not crimes codified in laws because nobody ever thought a President, or should I say a political party, would let a President get away with such blatant corruption.

But I suppose if Nixon had Faux News, the party might haave stood behind him.

Corruption is a crime. Again, are you saying no president has ever used foreign aid to get a country to do what it wants them to do?

Isn't that the whole ******* purpose of foreign aid?

the purpose of foreign aid is certainly not to get the foreign country to sling mud for you against your likely opponent. lol.

Wow, talk about being ignorant.

you want to make the case that foreign aid is for that purpose, fatso? i would not be surprised.

It's always been the case, it's just different for Trump because of "reasons"

The “reasons” in this case were Trump demanding personal favors in return for military aid.

Got him impeached

AND... it cost him the election against Biden, who he was trying to eliminate from the race with that extortion. That reveals Impeached Trump knew who his main rival was.

 

[rightwinger]

"Attempted coup"? The democrats successfully stole this election, and they did it right in our faces. The political and media wings of the democrat party don't even bother pretending anymore.

The Attempted Coup was Trump trying to get State Legislatures to overrule the vote of the people and appoint him to a second term

Like a true Banana Republic Dictator

 

[rightwinger]

AND... it cost him the election against Biden, who he was trying to eliminate from the race with that extortion. That reveals Impeached Trump knew who his main rival was.

Even then, Trump knew he could never beat Biden in an election.

That is why he resorted to Extortion to try to get dirt on his main rival.

 

[Faun]

"Attempted coup"? The democrats successfully stole this election, and they did it right in our faces. The political and media wings of the democrat party don't even bother pretending anymore.

The Attempted Coup was Trump trying to get State Legislatures to overrule the vote of the people and appoint him to a second term

Like a true Banana Republic Dictator

It's unfathomable that a U.S. president would even attempt such an un-American stunt like that. Trump will go down as one of the worst presidents ever.

 

[martybegan]

Trump's GSA tells Biden the transition can begin. But let's not sugarcoat this failed coup.

Establishing a line here is a critical function of journalism. Which is why it's important for the media to call what Trump's campaign tried to set in motion an attempted coup.

www.msnbc.com

SO...we had an Authoritarian Wannabe that was intent on taking the vote and the will of the people away. This is the same man who wanted his AG to arrest his political opponents in the last few weeks of the election. Now he was prepared to pull out his Dictator magic wand and wish away millions of legal votes. AND THE GOP WAS SITTING ON THEIR HANDS READY TO ALLOW HIM TO DO IT.

Now...tell me how either the GOP or trump can be trusted to govern this country again? The Party of Lincoln has become the Taliban of the United States.

"legal"

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

The simple fact is there simply isn't enough time to prove enough fraud, even if it happened, in the time given between the election and the certifications.

If the fraud is proven a year from now, would you condemn it? Would Biden Step down?

He has had more than ample time to prove his case. The nations top CONSERVATIVE legal teams have all stepped away from this lie of fraud. Can not you see?.....trump has been lying through the entirely of this Regime. It all started when he lied about the size of his inauguration and his hands....and he has not stopped in four years.

You should have gotten a hint when he appointed dye bleeding Rudy to head his case. He was the last attorney in the country who was willing to peddle trump's fraud lie.

There will never be enough fraud proven to overturn this election. The incompetence and audacity of a Narcissistic Sociopath doomed his own re-election when he decided to LIE to the American People about a deadly virus. That is what took trump down. Did God send the Pandemic to save America from Authoritarianism? Think about it.....

Wow, now it "enough fraud to overturn" instead of no fraud.

What a goalpost moving little shit you are.

Don't be a horse's ars....there are always irregularities in the vote...and some fraud was found by committed by REPUBLICANS.

Backstory: We investigated claims of voter fraud in the election. Here's what we found.

Are USA TODAY reporters looking into Trump's allegations of voter fraud during the 2020 election? The short answer is yes, but many are not credible.

www.usatoday.com

Yet the irregularities that mattered all happened in large Dem controlled areas, and all helped Biden get elected.

Yet the house went more to Republicans, yet many States went more to republicans, yet many republican areas in the States where the cities had issues went more to republicans.

Yet the Senate is a toss-up in a year where Dems had an easier chance of gains.

And all in a year where early and mail in voting made it easier to cheat.

Oh? What was different this year than others that made mail-in ballots easier to cheat?

More of them, more lax rules on acceptance.

 

[martybegan]

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

Considering that he attempted to strong arm an ally, with US foreign aid, into performing a political favor and corrupt act, and the Banana Republicans accepted that corruption. Why would they consider him inappropriately injecting himself into a few states legislatures a corruption problem?

Wow, back to calling usual political maneuvering some sort of crime....

but but but somehow its different when Trump does it because of "reasons"

When did I call those acts a crime? The corrupt acts I described are not usual political maneuverings. They are not crimes codified in laws because nobody ever thought a President, or should I say a political party, would let a President get away with such blatant corruption.

But I suppose if Nixon had Faux News, the party might haave stood behind him.

Corruption is a crime. Again, are you saying no president has ever used foreign aid to get a country to do what it wants them to do?

Isn't that the whole ******* purpose of foreign aid?

Where is the law that says a president can't use foreign aid like that? Only one Republican Senator voted to convict.

80 million Americans voted to convict.

74 Million didn't. That's a hung jury, not a conviction.

LOLOLOL

Not in American politics, it's not.

You were referring conviction, not losing an election, I was just point out the failure of your reference.

 

[martybegan]

Trump's GSA tells Biden the transition can begin. But let's not sugarcoat this failed coup.

Establishing a line here is a critical function of journalism. Which is why it's important for the media to call what Trump's campaign tried to set in motion an attempted coup.

www.msnbc.com

SO...we had an Authoritarian Wannabe that was intent on taking the vote and the will of the people away. This is the same man who wanted his AG to arrest his political opponents in the last few weeks of the election. Now he was prepared to pull out his Dictator magic wand and wish away millions of legal votes. AND THE GOP WAS SITTING ON THEIR HANDS READY TO ALLOW HIM TO DO IT.

Now...tell me how either the GOP or trump can be trusted to govern this country again? The Party of Lincoln has become the Taliban of the United States.

"legal"

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

The simple fact is there simply isn't enough time to prove enough fraud, even if it happened, in the time given between the election and the certifications.

If the fraud is proven a year from now, would you condemn it? Would Biden Step down?

He has had more than ample time to prove his case. The nations top CONSERVATIVE legal teams have all stepped away from this lie of fraud. Can not you see?.....trump has been lying through the entirely of this Regime. It all started when he lied about the size of his inauguration and his hands....and he has not stopped in four years.

You should have gotten a hint when he appointed dye bleeding Rudy to head his case. He was the last attorney in the country who was willing to peddle trump's fraud lie.

There will never be enough fraud proven to overturn this election. The incompetence and audacity of a Narcissistic Sociopath doomed his own re-election when he decided to LIE to the American People about a deadly virus. That is what took trump down. Did God send the Pandemic to save America from Authoritarianism? Think about it.....

Wow, now it "enough fraud to overturn" instead of no fraud.

What a goalpost moving little shit you are.

Don't be a horse's ars....there are always irregularities in the vote...and some fraud was found by committed by REPUBLICANS.

Backstory: We investigated claims of voter fraud in the election. Here's what we found.

Are USA TODAY reporters looking into Trump's allegations of voter fraud during the 2020 election? The short answer is yes, but many are not credible.

www.usatoday.com

Yet the irregularities that mattered all happened in large Dem controlled areas, and all helped Biden get elected.

Yet the house went more to Republicans, yet many States went more to republicans, yet many republican areas in the States where the cities had issues went more to republicans.

Yet the Senate is a toss-up in a year where Dems had an easier chance of gains.

And all in a year where early and mail in voting made it easier to cheat.

Oh? What was different this year than others that made mail-in ballots easier to cheat?

And harder to keep many from voting with dirty tactics so I guess it evened out.

The gop successes in House races, and even more so in defying State House elections that the Dems expected to win, definitively shows there was no massive cheating with mail in ballots. Trump lost decisively on his response, or non-response, to the virus and possibly his personality. But on other issues, the GOP sort of won. That's the message for both parties going forward. jmo

or the dems cheated where they could, and where it would be most effective.

 

[forkup]

Trump's GSA tells Biden the transition can begin. But let's not sugarcoat this failed coup.

Establishing a line here is a critical function of journalism. Which is why it's important for the media to call what Trump's campaign tried to set in motion an attempted coup.

www.msnbc.com

SO...we had an Authoritarian Wannabe that was intent on taking the vote and the will of the people away. This is the same man who wanted his AG to arrest his political opponents in the last few weeks of the election. Now he was prepared to pull out his Dictator magic wand and wish away millions of legal votes. AND THE GOP WAS SITTING ON THEIR HANDS READY TO ALLOW HIM TO DO IT.

Now...tell me how either the GOP or trump can be trusted to govern this country again? The Party of Lincoln has become the Taliban of the United States.

"legal"

Nothing he has done so far is outside the law.

The simple fact is there simply isn't enough time to prove enough fraud, even if it happened, in the time given between the election and the certifications.

If the fraud is proven a year from now, would you condemn it? Would Biden Step down?

That's kind of a weird question. If a year from know voter fraud massive enough to have changed the outcome is proven Biden would have been sworn in and there would no absolutely no mechanism to redress the situation it would be a constitutional crisis beyond what I can speculate.

Having said that. I've seen multiple press conferences now from Trumps "elite legal team" they talked about massive evidence. So if I accept your premise that would mean they are lying. If they are lying about having evidence to the extent that the president is willing to urge states to ignore the results and appoint their own electors the premise of the OP would be correct.

It would be a mess, that's for sure.

The thing is their evidence is probably only circumstantial right now because they probably don't have legal access or time to get the access to the actual ballots, programming and records.

My issue is simple. Loss of House Seats, Probably no control of Senate, the bellweather counties being wrong for the first time in forever, all the shennanigans happening in Dem controlled clusters, and all leading toward late surges in Biden votes that led him to win.

now reverse the names, and honestly tell me as a Biden supporter that you wouldn't be skeptical?

Skeptical is good. I myself am a very proud and committed skeptic. The only cure for skepticism is information. So before I start let me first say that if this sounds condescending that it's not intentional.

When I'm confronted by a piece of information I don't trust. Either here or on one of the things I read I start a process for myself that has certain rules and steps.
-First I start from the premise I don't know and remind myself I have a bias.
-Second I carefully read what's being alleged. ( you'd be surprised how often suggestive language is used).
-Third, I ask myself the question if what's being alleged is logical ( if not my skepticism goes up). This is where your circumstantial evidence or legal access argument fails.
-Fourth, after I'm sure I understand I start looking for information about what's being claimed. Here I'm very careful about the sources I use. I try to stay away from sources that do opinions. Instead, if I can find it I use primary sources, or if that's too hard fact-check sources that source themselves (yes I do click those links, just to make sure that those sources say the same thing as being portrayed) for instance something like this. Fact check: Biden vote spikes and county recount do not prove Democrats are trying to steal the election in Michigan and Wisconsin | Reuters I suggest you read this.
-Fifth, then I come here and test what I've learned by talking to someone who doesn't believe as I do. See if they can give me information or a perspective I haven't considered.
-Sixt, after all that I presume that I'm right, leaving the possibility that I'm still wrong after all I'm just good at arguing.

 

[martybegan]

Again, are you saying no president has ever used foreign aid to get a country to do what it wants them to do?

Hahahaha not at all. I'm saying when Trump asked the Ukraine President to announce an investigation into Trumps chief political rival in the next election, (or he wouldn't get the aid), that was the corrupt act. Not simply using foreign aid to get a country to follow US policy.

So if it wasn't Biden's son it would be OK?

You are saying be the son of a Presidential candidate gives you immunity from investigation?

Nice sidestep.

Nice non-answer.

I answered your clarifying question about what distinguishes Trumps corrupt act from the normal quid pro quo foreign politics. Like what as VP Biden carried out in the Ukraine.

Yes, because normal government actions involving your children getting sweet sweet bennies is not nepotistic at all....