Justice Sunday...?

[Bullypulpit]

<center><h1><a href=http://www.tompaine.com/articles/just_us_sunday.php?dateid=20050424>Justice Sunday...?</a></h1></center>

..."Just Us Sunday" would, I think be more approprpriate.

Senator Frist is playing a dangerous game with some of the most extreme elements of the Christian conservative movement in America. One that could, with any luck, kill his political career. In making television appearnaces today with a small and extreme, but incredibly vocal and politically savvy fringe of religionists, he launches an attack on any who stand outside this tent as being "un-Christian" and working to undermine Christianity.

You may have noticed that I failed to call these people "Christian"...And with good reason. I do this as the leaders of these religionists have abandoned their faith for political power. As they are unable to convince most people of the soundness of their agenda by means of reasoned argument, they are seeking to move their doctrine from the church to the legislature. There, they hope to have it enacted into law, thus imposing their agenda upon the rest of us...at the point of a gun.

They seek to undermine the judiciary, which provides a check to the unlimited exercise of power by either the legislative or executive branches. They wish to supplant a strong, independent judiciary with a rubber-stamp judiciary that will unquestioningly uphold their ideological agenda.

These religionists, rather than focusing on the heart of the teachings of Jesus have, instead, narrowed the discussion down to abortion and same-gender marriage.

<blockquote>...35:For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. - <a href=http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvMatt.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=25&division=div1>Matthew 25: 35-36</a></blockquote>

What has become of this message? It has been drowned out by those who would hijack religion and pervert its message to further their own political agenda, selecting only those passages which may be used to this end, excluding all the rest.

The assertions made by the Republican leadership and the leadership of these religionists are the seeds of theocracy, and if these people desire to live in a theocracy, they should gather up their belongings and move to one. Their attempts to create one from the secular republic established by the Founding Fathers is an affront to their memory and a subversion of their goals.

In closing I leave these politicians and religionists with this:

<blockquote>13: But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. - <a href=http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvMatt.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=23&division=div1>Matthew 23: 13-15</a></blockquote>

These politicians and religionists wear the mantle of Christianity, but they soil it in doing so. They preach Christian virtue yet fail to practice it. They mouth the words, yet fail to understand their meaning. They are the threat to this Republic.

 

[dilloduck]

<center><h1><a href=http://www.tompaine.com/articles/just_us_sunday.php?dateid=20050424>Justice Sunday...?</a></h1></center>

..."Just Us Sunday" would, I think be more approprpriate.

Senator Frist is playing a dangerous game with some of the most extreme elements of the Christian conservative movement in America. One that could, with any luck, kill his political career. In making television appearnaces today with a small and extreme, but incredibly vocal and politically savvy fringe of religionists, he launches an attack on any who stand outside this tent as being "un-Christian" and working to undermine Christianity.

You may have noticed that I failed to call these people "Christian"...And with good reason. I do this as the leaders of these religionists have abandoned their faith for political power. As they are unable to convince most people of the soundness of their agenda by means of reasoned argument, they are seeking to move their doctrine from the church to the legislature. There, they hope to have it enacted into law, thus imposing their agenda upon the rest of us...at the point of a gun.

They seek to undermine the judiciary, which provides a check to the unlimited exercise of power by either the legislative or executive branches. They wish to supplant a strong, independent judiciary with a rubber-stamp judiciary that will unquestioningly uphold their ideological agenda.

These religionists, rather than focusing on the heart of the teachings of Jesus have, instead, narrowed the discussion down to abortion and same-gender marriage.

<blockquote>...35:For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. - <a href=http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvMatt.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=25&division=div1>Matthew 25: 35-36</a></blockquote>

What has become of this message? It has been drowned out by those who would hijack religion and pervert its message to further their own political agenda, selecting only those passages which may be used to this end, excluding all the rest.

The assertions made by the Republican leadership and the leadership of these religionists are the seeds of theocracy, and if these people desire to live in a theocracy, they should gather up their belongings and move to one. Their attempts to create one from the secular republic established by the Founding Fathers is an affront to their memory and a subversion of their goals.

In closing I leave these politicians and religionists with this:

<blockquote>13: But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. - <a href=http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvMatt.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=23&division=div1>Matthew 23: 13-15</a></blockquote>

These politicians and religionists wear the mantle of Christianity, but they soil it in doing so. They preach Christian virtue yet fail to practice it. They mouth the words, yet fail to understand their meaning. They are the threat to this Republic.

I think the Republicans are just as confused as anybody as to exactly where thier support is coming from regarding religion and while I'm all for putting in some conservative judges for BALANCE (not tryanny) I don't think the mainstream Christian approves of th Republican actions any more than you do.

 

[musicman]

O.K., Bully - you're the Bible expert. Show me the passage that reads "murder babies and suck off thy neighbor".

 

[Shattered]

O.K., Bully - you're the Bible expert. Show me the passage that reads "murder babies and suck off thy neighbor".

:rotflmao:

 

[krisy]

O.K., Bully - you're the Bible expert. Show me the passage that reads "murder babies and suck off thy neighbor".

 

[krisy]

Bully,

I don't believe there is anything wrong with trying to keep the judiciary in check. They,like the executive and legisaltive branches,are human too and can let their politics slide into their decisions,as opposed to the law. Not all,but surely some.

 

[Bullypulpit]

O.K., Bully - you're the Bible expert. Show me the passage that reads "murder babies and suck off thy neighbor".

Show me where abortion and same gender-couples are <b>specifically</b> mentioned.

 

[musicman]

Show me where abortion and same gender-couples are <b>specifically</b> mentioned.

O.K.

Jesus sat among the little children and said "What you do unto the LEAST of these, you do unto me". That should scare any sane person out of his socks.

In Romans, chapter 1, Paul speaks of a people whom God has abandoned to a reprobate mind. Check it out; I don't see how the biblical prohibition of homosexuality could be made any plainer.

 

[freeandfun1]

Show me where abortion and same gender-couples are <b>specifically</b> mentioned.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 6

9: Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality.

10: Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.

11: And such some of you were [once]. But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified [pronounced righteous, by trusting] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit of our God.

Same sex couples are continuing to practice homosexuality and therefore, they have not atoned for their sins.

 

[Nienna]

Okay, I think I'm starting to get it... is this what y'all mean when you talk about raving lib's who don't back up their assertions with examples?

 

[freeandfun1]

Show me where abortion and same gender-couples are <b>specifically</b> mentioned.

Abortion is not specifically mentioned, but murder is and abortion is murder.

Jeremiah, Chapter 1

5: Before I formed you in the womb, I knew and approved of you.

Psalms, Chapter 139

13: For You did form my inward parts; You did knit me together in my mother's womb.

14: I will confess and praise You for You are fearful and wonderful and for the awful wonder of my birth! Wonderful are Your works, and that my inner self knows right well.

The clearly shows that God decides who is formed in the womb and who is not. Therefore, killing an unborn child is killing one of God's creations. And we all know that murder is a sin.

 

[Gem]

Bully,

Once again, you have lost this one fair and square. Your challenge to find examples of Biblical passages against homosexuality and by extension, gay marriage has been met easily and conclusively. Your challenge to find examples of Biblical passages condeming killing of children in the womb has likewise, been met just as easily, if not more so.

I do hope that you will be man enough to admit this, rather than do what I fear you are going to do...which is fall back on your word, "specifically," which would be a pathetic copout.

Specifically, the Bible does not mention using the Internet as a means of Identity Theft and Fraud...but I think that most of us can infer from the Bibles statement on stealing and bearing false witness that God would include this in His list of "No-Nos."

 

[Bullypulpit]

Abortion is not specifically mentioned, but murder is and abortion is murder.

Jeremiah, Chapter 1

5: Before I formed you in the womb, I knew and approved of you.

Psalms, Chapter 139

13: For You did form my inward parts; You did knit me together in my mother's womb.

14: I will confess and praise You for You are fearful and wonderful and for the awful wonder of my birth! Wonderful are Your works, and that my inner self knows right well.

The clearly shows that God decides who is formed in the womb and who is not. Therefore, killing an unborn child is killing one of God's creations. And we all know that murder is a sin.

NO matter how you slice it or dice it, aborting a pregnancy is a medical procedure. Those who wish to ban safe and legal abortions are condemning countless women to death at the hands of back-alley butchers. So much for the "Culture of Life".

 

[Bullypulpit]

1 Corinthians, Chapter 6

9: Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality.

10: Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.

11: And such some of you were [once]. But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified [pronounced righteous, by trusting] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit of our God.

Same sex couples are continuing to practice homosexuality and therefore, they have not atoned for their sins.

Homosexuality is not a crime before the law in this country. It is objectionable only to those whose religious beliefs hold that it is a sin in the eyes of their favoriet deity. So long as the relationships between same-gender couples causes no objective demonstrable harm to themselves or anyone else, there is no reason before law to prohibit them from engaging in such relationships.

But that's not the issue here. The issue is religion being hijacked by the Republican leadership and its pandering to the fears and xenophobia of extremists within certain Christian sects whose favor they are trying to curry. There are only about 14 passages in the Bible refering either directly or inferentially to homosexuality...none addressing abortion and over 900 addressing issue of poverty and social justice. If you want to be a "cut and paste" Christian and follow only those scriptural referrents that validate your own petty, irrational fears, you go right ahead...But keep it to yourselves, it's ugly to see.

<blockquote> 1: Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2: Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3: But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5: And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. - <i><a href=>Matthew</i> 6: 1-7</a></blockquote>

 

[dilloduck]

Homosexuality is not a crime before the law in this country. It is objectionable only to those whose religious beliefs hold that it is a sin in the eyes of their favoriet deity. So long as the relationships between same-gender couples causes no objective demonstrable harm to themselves or anyone else, there is no reason before law to prohibit them from engaging in such relationships.

But that's not the issue here. The issue is religion being hijacked by the Republican leadership and its pandering to the fears and xenophobia of extremists within certain Christian sects whose favor they are trying to curry. There are only about 14 passages in the Bible refering either directly or inferentially to homosexuality...none addressing abortion and over 900 addressing issue of poverty and social justice. If you want to be a "cut and paste" Christian and follow only those scriptural referrents that validate your own petty, irrational fears, you go right ahead...But keep it to yourselves, it's ugly to see.

<blockquote> 1: Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2: Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3: But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5: And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. - <i><a href=>Matthew</i> 6: 1-7</a></blockquote>

Bully--You started out with scripture in your first post. Getting a little hypocritical yourself huh ?

 

[freeandfun1]

I did what he asked yet he doesn't want to accept it....

typical of him.

 

[freeandfun1]

Homosexuality is not a crime before the law in this country. It is objectionable only to those whose religious beliefs hold that it is a sin in the eyes of their favoriet deity. So long as the relationships between same-gender couples causes no objective demonstrable harm to themselves or anyone else, there is no reason before law to prohibit them from engaging in such relationships.

But that's not the issue here. The issue is religion being hijacked by the Republican leadership and its pandering to the fears and xenophobia of extremists within certain Christian sects whose favor they are trying to curry. There are only about 14 passages in the Bible refering either directly or inferentially to homosexuality...none addressing abortion and over 900 addressing issue of poverty and social justice. If you want to be a "cut and paste" Christian and follow only those scriptural referrents that validate your own petty, irrational fears, you go right ahead...But keep it to yourselves, it's ugly to see.

<blockquote> 1: Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2: Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3: But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5: And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. - <i><a href=>Matthew</i> 6: 1-7</a></blockquote>

You asked me to point to verses in the Bible and I did. Christ even speaks of it as a sin. So you can believe what you want. I didn't just "cut and paste".

And as for abortion, as Gem said, just because "abortion" isn't mentioned directly.... geeze bully.

It is acknowleged in the Bible that murder is a sin. It is acknowledged that God develops a child in the womb. Aborting something God developed is murder and therefore, a sin. Is that so hard for your simple mind to grasp?

By the way, if anybody is "cut'n and paste'n" it is YOU.

 

[Gem]

Bully,

What exactly was the point of your response? You asked for people to point to verses in the Bible that denounced abortion and gay marriage. People did so.

You responded to their successfully completing your request by twisting what you were looking for. Suddenly you are no longer looking for passages from the Bible, but are siting legal precedent, governmental policy, and evil Republicans.

Was trying to twist the topic away from the original premise because you were losing ground in the discussion badly part of your plan? Or are you just oblivious to your own tap-dancing?

The question YOU posed, was regarding passages in the Bible that backed up people's assertions that abortion and/or homosexuality was condemned by the Bible. People met that challenge, found passages that demonstrate quite easily that the Bible is fairly obvious about its feelings on those issues.

Now, if you would like to take people's responses to your question and discuss how they work in context of 1) Whether or not the Bible is correct or 2) Whether or not the US should be making laws and/or policy decisions based upon the teachings of the Bible then you might have something worth discussing...

However at the moment you still appear to be unable to respond to the responses to the question YOU posed...you are still faltering.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bully--You started out with scripture in your first post. Getting a little hypocritical yourself huh ?

I'm not Christian.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm not Christian.

Isn't it a bit silly to use Biblical verses to bolster you arguments then?