Jesus vs Muhammad: Who’s the moral exemplar?

[Lysistrata]

So what do you have to say about the cheap prostitutes whom I mentioned. Whores. All of them. The cheapest of of the cheap. The scum that we Americans put up with. Every one of them is a person with no worth and not worthy of any respect. And these are the cheap whores who want to explore the sex lives of decent, everyday Americans, like the prostitute who recommended that an American keep an aspirin between her knees. I don't know what American he was aiming his "advice" at, but he's the whore, not her.

 

[JoelT1]

So what do you have to say about the cheap prostitutes whom I mentioned. Whores. All of them. The cheapest of of the cheap. The scum that we Americans put up with. Every one of them is a person with no worth and not worthy of any respect. And these are the cheap whores who want to explore the sex lives of decent, everyday Americans, like the prostitute who recommended that an American keep an aspirin between her knees. I don't know what American he was aiming his "advice" at, but he's the whore, not her.

They don’t blow up bombs or behead unbelievers or force Christianity on others

 

[Likkmee]

So what do you have to say about the cheap prostitutes whom I mentioned. Whores. All of them. The cheapest of of the cheap. The scum that we Americans put up with. Every one of them is a person with no worth and not worthy of any respect. And these are the cheap whores who want to explore the sex lives of decent, everyday Americans, like the prostitute who recommended that an American keep an aspirin between her knees. I don't know what American he was aiming his "advice" at, but he's the whore, not her.

They don’t blow up bombs or behead unbelievers or force Christianity on others

Not now.....maybe later ! The Real History of the Crusades

 

[JoelT1]

So what do you have to say about the cheap prostitutes whom I mentioned. Whores. All of them. The cheapest of of the cheap. The scum that we Americans put up with. Every one of them is a person with no worth and not worthy of any respect. And these are the cheap whores who want to explore the sex lives of decent, everyday Americans, like the prostitute who recommended that an American keep an aspirin between her knees. I don't know what American he was aiming his "advice" at, but he's the whore, not her.

They don’t blow up bombs or behead unbelievers or force Christianity on others

Not now.....maybe later ! The Real History of the Crusades

The Crusades were in response to Muslims attacking Christian churches in Jerusalem. And Crusades violated Christian doctrine while Muslims complied with Islamic doctrine of conquest

 

[Lysistrata]

You still have not answered my question. Why are you doing this. All religions have their cheap tramps, some of whom I mentioned above. Long ago in a land far, far away, has nothing to do with us here and now.
We have people right here in the U.S., among them the prostitutes I listed, trying to force a cheap and vulgar brand of "Christianity" on us every single day. What's up with them? Pence, Robertson, Tony Perkins, Dobson, Gotthard, Dolan, and the rest of the trash. Just what do you think that they are doing? They are certainly trying to force their shit down the throats of female and LGBT Americans. And theirs is not even a religion, just a fraud.
But, again, what are you trying to accomplish? Do you actually like these prostitutes I mentioned? Do you actually want a religious war? Why so?

Please note that I never mentioned peaceful Methodists, Episcopalians, Greek Orthodox, Copts, Lutherans, Friends, the members of the United Church of Christ, Presbyterians, and all the rest of the people who adhere to the Christian faith. Who are these people whom you defend?

 

[Penelope]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

 

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

You actually think the life and teachings of Jesus are in the “OT”?

 

[irosie91]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

 

[JoelT1]

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
it is unlikely that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

Nowhere does the Bible say Ishmael is ancestor of Arabs In fact, the word “Arab” doesn’t even appear in the Torah where Ishmael appears

 

[irosie91]

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
it is unlikely that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

Nowhere does the Bible say Ishmael is ancestor of Arabs In fact, the word “Arab” doesn’t even appear in the Torah where Ishmael appears

thanks Joel-----I cannot EXTRACT from hubby just when the word ARAB approx. 'aravi' appears in the tanach or Talmud. or if it does appear. -----he mumbles something
about-----"sunset" which I take to mean "horizon" ---as in --"far away, over there"-------so-----from where does the
term "aravi" arise?

 

[Penelope]

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

There are many errors in the OT.

 

[Penelope]

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

You actually think the life and teachings of Jesus are in the “OT”?

Oh thought you were talking about Ishmael? Weren't you?? What does Jesus have to do with Ishmael?

 

[irosie91]

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

There are many errors in the OT.

probably-----in fact I have never been told that it is
INERRANT by any scholar thereof. People who do
seem to make such claim about either the OT or the NT
are Christians. Muslims seem to have a kind of
compulsion to INSIST that the Koran is inerrant----whether
they believe it or not.-----it is a matter of LAW. Is there something that you wish to HIGH LIGHT in the OT that
bothers you?

 

[irosie91]

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

You actually think the life and teachings of Jesus are in the “OT”?

Oh thought you were talking about Ishmael? Weren't you?? What does Jesus have to do with Ishmael?

penny dear-----I think hashev is referring to a commonly touted CHRISTIAN teaching that amounts to an indecipherable claim that Jesus "FULFILLED THE LAW"
????? somehow-----a kind of metaphysical conundrum.
"the law" commonly refers to the first five books of the OT---aka THE TORAH

 

[JoelT1]

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
it is unlikely that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

Nowhere does the Bible say Ishmael is ancestor of Arabs In fact, the word “Arab” doesn’t even appear in the Torah where Ishmael appears

thanks Joel-----I cannot EXTRACT from hubby just when the word ARAB approx. 'aravi' appears in the tanach or Talmud. or if it does appear. -----he mumbles something
about-----"sunset" which I take to mean "horizon" ---as in --"far away, over there"-------so-----from where does the
term "aravi" arise?

The origins of the word Arab are debated, including a Hebrew word for nomad ערב | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (Old Testament Hebrew)

 

[JoelT1]

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

There are many errors in the OT.

probably-----in fact I have never been told that it is
INERRANT by any scholar thereof. People who do
seem to make such claim about either the OT or the NT
are Christians. Muslims seem to have a kind of
compulsion to INSIST that the Koran is inerrant----whether
they believe it or not.-----it is a matter of LAW. Is there something that you wish to HIGH LIGHT in the OT that
bothers you?

Islam’s legitimacy depends on the claim that the Bible was falsified, thus, necessitating the “correct” text, Koran, dictated (recited by Muhammad) in its entirety by “Allah” Since “Allah” is infallible, so, too, the Koran

Unfortunately for Muslims, the Koran is provably defective and flawed and riddled with numerous errors and discrepancies and differences with the Bible. Muslims insist the errors and differences are in the Bible, but this is nonsense since there is absolutely zero evidence of the Bible having been falsified. Nor, can Muslims explain how and when the Bible was allegedly falsified and by whom.

 

[irosie91]

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

There are many errors in the OT.

probably-----in fact I have never been told that it is
INERRANT by any scholar thereof. People who do
seem to make such claim about either the OT or the NT
are Christians. Muslims seem to have a kind of
compulsion to INSIST that the Koran is inerrant----whether
they believe it or not.-----it is a matter of LAW. Is there something that you wish to HIGH LIGHT in the OT that
bothers you?

Islam’s legitimacy depends on the claim that the Bible was falsified, thus, necessitating the “correct” text, Koran, dictated (recited by Muhammad) in its entirety by “Allah” Since “Allah” is infallible, so, too, the Koran

Unfortunately for Muslims, the Koran is provably defective and flawed and riddled with numerous errors and discrepancies and differences with the Bible. Muslims insist the errors and differences are in the Bible, but this is nonsense since there is absolutely zero evidence of the Bible having been falsified. Nor, can Muslims explain how and when the Bible was allegedly falsified and by whom.

Joel my answer is going to be a little blurred by poor memory------but it goes like this. Someone in the tanach---
probably someone with the personality disorder known as
DOOM AND GLOOM Jeremiah-----puts a "curse" on scribes
who write deception. Muslims like that one and insist that it
means that the tanach is one giant lie-----like its an ADMISSION that DA JOOOISH BIBLE IS ONE BIG LIE.
It is a commonly held belief amongst muslims that the OT is
one big giant LIE and JEREMIAH (of all people) said so. I think they throw the NT into the LIE PILE----too. Really----
I ain't KIDDIN'

 

[Sunni Man]

I'm always amused reading the JoelT1 and Irosie hate fest comedy show. ....

It's clear they know very little factual information about Islam and muslims.

So they just make it up as they go along. ....

 

[irosie91]

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

There are many errors in the OT.

probably-----in fact I have never been told that it is
INERRANT by any scholar thereof. People who do
seem to make such claim about either the OT or the NT
are Christians. Muslims seem to have a kind of
compulsion to INSIST that the Koran is inerrant----whether
they believe it or not.-----it is a matter of LAW. Is there something that you wish to HIGH LIGHT in the OT that
bothers you?

Islam’s legitimacy depends on the claim that the Bible was falsified, thus, necessitating the “correct” text, Koran, dictated (recited by Muhammad) in its entirety by “Allah” Since “Allah” is infallible, so, too, the Koran

Unfortunately for Muslims, the Koran is provably defective and flawed and riddled with numerous errors and discrepancies and differences with the Bible. Muslims insist the errors and differences are in the Bible, but this is nonsense since there is absolutely zero evidence of the Bible having been falsified. Nor, can Muslims explain how and when the Bible was allegedly falsified and by whom.

I know the answer------it is PLACED in the minds of muslim children world wide. I know it because I have encountered muslims from all sorts of different places in the world who "KNOW" for sure --------that there are THOUSANDS OF VERSIONS OF THE TORAH------versions. Curious youngster that I was when about 20- (LONG AGO)----I said "there are hand written torah scrolls in every synagogue----are you saying that one in New York is DIFFERENT from one in a synagogue in Chicago?" My informant was a Pakistani surgeon. He answered "of course, EVERYONE KNOWS THAT" -----I answered "nope----they are all the same---letter by letter" The Pakistani laughed at my childish stupidity.
It is a lesson taught to all muslim school children world wide---
it is muslim FACT

 

[JoelT1]

Has it ever occurred to you the OT is wrong.

penny dear, has it ever occurred to you to try to THINK
before you type. Hashev has stated that nowhere in the Koran does it say that muhummad was descended from
the person Ishmael noted in the OT. What does your question regarding the OT have to do with that which does not
appear in the Koran. The OT does not mention muhummad
or his possible ancestors. In fact neither does the Talmud.
Both do mention "ISHMAELITES" which means people descended from the person Ishmael. It is also a fact that in the past-----arabs were called Ishmaelites ---ie the people from Arabia. and the people who lived a nomadic life in some of the deserts of the middle east.------I got it from writings that you probably never read. I also got from MUSLIMS---that
ISHMAEL is the founder (that is ancestor) of Arabians like
MUHUMMAD and specifically a direct ancestor of muhummad. Now do you understand? I do agree that
that all nomadic people of the middle east are VERY UNLIKELY to be descended from Ishmael------and that
the term ISHMAELITE was just an ascribed moniker.
Is that what you mean by the OT being "wrong"?-----its just
an ascribed word----that's how language works

There are many errors in the OT.

probably-----in fact I have never been told that it is
INERRANT by any scholar thereof. People who do
seem to make such claim about either the OT or the NT
are Christians. Muslims seem to have a kind of
compulsion to INSIST that the Koran is inerrant----whether
they believe it or not.-----it is a matter of LAW. Is there something that you wish to HIGH LIGHT in the OT that
bothers you?

Islam’s legitimacy depends on the claim that the Bible was falsified, thus, necessitating the “correct” text, Koran, dictated (recited by Muhammad) in its entirety by “Allah” Since “Allah” is infallible, so, too, the Koran

Unfortunately for Muslims, the Koran is provably defective and flawed and riddled with numerous errors and discrepancies and differences with the Bible. Muslims insist the errors and differences are in the Bible, but this is nonsense since there is absolutely zero evidence of the Bible having been falsified. Nor, can Muslims explain how and when the Bible was allegedly falsified and by whom.

Joel my answer is going to be a little blurred by poor memory------but it goes like this. Someone in the tanach---
probably someone with the personality disorder known as
DOOM AND GLOOM Jeremiah-----puts a "curse" on scribes
who write deception. Muslims like that one and insist that it
means that the tanach is one giant lie-----like its an ADMISSION that DA JOOOISH BIBLE IS ONE BIG LIE.
It is a commonly held belief amongst muslims that the OT is
one big giant LIE and JEREMIAH (of all people) said so. I think they throw the NT into the LIE PILE----too. Really----
I ain't KIDDIN'

Deuteronomy 4:2 says God’s words cannot be changed. Also, “Allah” says in Koran 6:34 that his words cannot be changed.

So, if Allah is God of the Bible, as Muslims insist, and God’s words were altered in the Bible, as Muslims insist, that would mean Allah/God was fooled and his words were falsified without his knowing. This alleges Allah/God is not all-knowing, a blasphemy. And, if this occurred, why did he wait about 1500 years after the Hebrew Bible and about 500 years after the New Testament to correct them with the Koran?

Thus, the logical absurdities of Islam demonstrating its fraudulence