Zone1 It's December. Non-Believers, Put Your Kvetching Here:

[SweetSue92]

All the complaining about how Jesus was born in March, the Christmas tree is pagan and idolatry, half our traditions came from Yule and Solstice....whatever makes you feel better. I'm convinced you do this because 11 months of the year you all hate on Christianity, so then feel guilty taking part in the celebrations in December. You reconcile this by telling yourself it's "not really Christian".

Here's a little tip from Christians: celebrate it or not, we don't care. We don't generally go to Christmas events and grill people as to whether they're REALLY celebrating the Birth of Christ or just partaking in general merry-making. It's fine. Either way. It's fine.

But how about refrain from the REALLY impolite act of telling religious believers that the way they celebrate their holiday is wrong. Or if you can't refrain, kindly start doing that to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Wiccans, etc too. We can't wait to see how THAT goes.

But if you really CANNOT refrain: just put all the usual December kvetching here. Also, all USMB members, when they start the kvetching in other threads, just refer them to this one. The general unbelievers December complaint thread.

 

[Moonglow]

I don't celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving, I have usually always worked on holidays to earn a living for my family. I don't care how other people celebrate unless they try to force me to do it also. Yous guys can go through the motions of religious and non-religious observances it bothers me not..

 

[surada]

All the complaining about how Jesus was born in March, the Christmas tree is pagan and idolatry, half our traditions came from Yule and Solstice....whatever makes you feel better. I'm convinced you do this because 11 months of the year you all hate on Christianity, so then feel guilty taking part in the celebrations in December. You reconcile this by telling yourself it's "not really Christian".

Here's a little tip from Christians: celebrate it or not, we don't care. We don't generally go to Christmas events and grill people as to whether they're REALLY celebrating the Birth of Christ or just partaking in general merry-making. It's fine. Either way. It's fine.

But how about refrain from the REALLY impolite act of telling religious believers that they way they celebrate their holiday is wrong. Or if you can't refrain, kindly start doing that to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Wiccans, etc too. We can't wait to see how THAT goes.

But if you really CANNOT refrain: just put all the usual December kvetching here. Also, all USMB members, when they start the kvetching in other threads, just refer them to this one. The general unbelievers December complaint thread.

Lambing season is earlier in Palestine.. late December through mid February. He probably was born then.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving, I have usually always worked on holidays to earn a living for my family. I don't care how other people celebrate unless they try to force me to do it also. Yous guys can go through the motions of religious and non-religious observances it bothers me not..

This is fair. Whether you celebrate or not, just leave people to it.

 

[1srelluc]

First I ever heard of Jesus being born in March.....Whoo! I'm really behind the curve on this one.

 

[Coyote]

There are many winter holidays and celebrations, all beautiful in their own right. You don’t have to be a “believer” to appreciate the beauty and sacredness of each OR to recognize the many links they have and how they got to where they are today. There is nothing wrong in that.

The only rudeness I ever encountered was at our kennel club Christmas party, when I wished one our members “happy holidays” and she glared at me and said “it’s Merry Christmas”! Go figure, even when no offense is meant people will find reason to be offended.

 

[SweetSue92]

First I ever heard of Jesus being born in March.....Whoo! I'm really behind the curve on this one.

I've heard all sorts of things, but I think spring is most common. As a Christian it matters not one whit to me.

 

[SweetSue92]

There are many winter holidays and celebrations, all beautiful in their own right. You don’t have to be a “believer” to appreciate the beauty and sacredness of each OR to recognize the many links they have and how they got to where they are today. There is nothing wrong in that.

The only rudeness I ever encountered was at our kennel club Christmas party, when I wished one our members “happy holidays” and she glared at me and said “it’s Merry Christmas”! Go figure, even when no offense is meant people will find reason to be offended.

That is also rude. If someone wishes you well, they wish you well. The only polite response is, "Thank you, same to you!"

This is different than a company who has scrubbed every mention of Christmas from their ads or whatever, yet acknowledges other holidays. Christians have a right to react to being scrubbed. But not when someone is just wishing you well.

 

[Coyote]

That is also rude. If someone wishes you well, they wish you well. The only polite response is, "Thank you, same to you!"

This is different than a company who has scrubbed every mention of Christmas from their ads or whatever, yet acknowledges other holidays. Christians have a right to react to being scrubbed. But not when someone is just wishing you well.

It is interesting, because companies and even public spaces….have choices. You choose to be exclusive, and remove everything hinting at religion or inclusive, and choose to include a variety of holidays (a word derived from holy days) in your company. I used to be utterly opposed to public spaces celebrating religious holidays in any fashion but that has changed over the years. There is no harm in Christmas pageants and parades, putting out a crèche or singing traditional carols as long as we are open to all our countries faith traditions, it’s part of who we are. Likewise I think it’s valuable for children to learn about each other’s faith’s, traditions and what they mean to the person without being accused of indoctrination. It makes for a better and more inclusive society. We have perhaps gone too far in cleansing all religion from public spaces.

 

[presonorek]

All the complaining about how Jesus was born in March, the Christmas tree is pagan and idolatry, half our traditions came from Yule and Solstice....whatever makes you feel better. I'm convinced you do this because 11 months of the year you all hate on Christianity, so then feel guilty taking part in the celebrations in December. You reconcile this by telling yourself it's "not really Christian".

Here's a little tip from Christians: celebrate it or not, we don't care. We don't generally go to Christmas events and grill people as to whether they're REALLY celebrating the Birth of Christ or just partaking in general merry-making. It's fine. Either way. It's fine.

But how about refrain from the REALLY impolite act of telling religious believers that the way they celebrate their holiday is wrong. Or if you can't refrain, kindly start doing that to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Wiccans, etc too. We can't wait to see how THAT goes.

But if you really CANNOT refrain: just put all the usual December kvetching here. Also, all USMB members, when they start the kvetching in other threads, just refer them to this one. The general unbelievers December complaint thread.

Educate everybody instead of insulting them.

 

[SweetSue92]

It is interesting, because companies and even public spaces….have choices. You choose to be exclusive, and remove everything hinting at religion or inclusive, and choose to include a variety of holidays (a word derived from holy days) in your company. I used to be utterly opposed to public spaces celebrating religious holidays in any fashion but that has changed over the years. There is no harm in Christmas pageants and parades, putting out a crèche or singing traditional carols as long as we are open to all our countries faith traditions, it’s part of who we are. Likewise I think it’s valuable for children to learn about each other’s faith’s, traditions and what they mean to the person with being accused of indoctrination. It makes for a better and more inclusive society. We have perhaps gone too far in cleansing all religion from public spaces.

This in spades. I teach in the arts and this is a vital and important way that children learn about and learn respect for other cultures. Way, way before it became popular to "Scrub" I was teaching all sorts of songs in many languages and from many cultures. When this became a potential sign of "cultural appropriation"**, (it's not by the way), I just closed the door and kept on going. Because I saw how it opened worlds for my students.

You can hardly teach arts and NOT touch on religion. I say to my students, if it's important to people, they create about it: sing, dance, act, paint, etc. And religion is very important to people.

**The important thing here is using authentic material from authentic sources and approaching the art with respect. Then it's not "appropriation"--it's learning and appreciation

 

[Coyote]

This in spades. I teach in the arts and this is a vital and important way that children learn about and learn respect for other cultures. Way, way before it became popular to "Scrub" I was teaching all sorts of songs in many languages and from many cultures. When this became a potential sign of "cultural appropriation"**, (it's not by the way), I just closed the door and kept on going. Because I saw how it opened worlds for my students.

You can hardly teach arts and NOT touch on religion. I say to my students, if it's important to people, they create about it: sing, dance, act, paint, etc. And religion is very important to people.

**The important thing here is using authentic material from authentic sources and approaching the art with respect. Then it's not "appropriation"--it's learning and appreciation

Totally agree! You also can’t teach history without religion. Absolutely agree on the cultural appropriation bit. My beef with that is that almost everything could be construed as cultural appropriation….music, cuisine, etc is all built upon earlier traditions and contributions that were used to create something new.

 

[Jaxson]

 

[Jaxson]

I've heard all sorts of things, but I think spring is most common. As a Christian it matters not one whit to me.

What did Jesus do for the first 30 years of his life? Lived with his parents?

 

[SweetSue92]

What did Jesus do for the first 30 years of his life? Lived with his parents?

Most likely, and probably learned carpentry from Joseph. But in that culture it wasn't unusual for extended families to live together.

 

[The Duke]

Just like teh Charlie Brown Christmas!

"
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

2(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)

3And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David

5To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

6And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

7And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

8And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

9And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

15And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

16And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

17And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.

18And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.

19But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.

20And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

21And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

22And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23(As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord

24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

33And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

34And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

35(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

36And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;

37And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

38And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

39And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

41Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

42And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

43And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

44But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

45And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.

46And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

50And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

51And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

52And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

Luke chapter 2 KJV (King James Version)

Luke chapter 2 KJV (King James Version)

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[presonorek]

What is the history of Christmas from the years 400AD through 1869AD?

 

[Jaxson]

Most likely, and probably learned carpentry from Joseph. But in that culture it wasn't unusual for extended families to live together.

And why did he never have a gf? Was he gay?

 

[presonorek]

And why did he never have a gf? Was he gay?

Jesus Christ of Nazareth was an eunuch.

According to scripture this is a celebrated status.

 

[presonorek]

kindly start doing that to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Wiccans, etc too. We can't wait to see how THAT goes.

Can you direct me to these Hindus, Muslims, Buddhist, and Wiccan posts so that I can refute their delusions as well?