Zone1 It's December. Non-Believers, Put Your Kvetching Here:

[Moonglow]

Poor guy.



What is your profession? Slave?



In the middle ages for example 1/3rd of a year had been holy days - for everyone. So why do you live in fear of Christmas and Thanksgiving? Absurde.



Sorry - but it looks like that "work" became your god. We Christians made work to an important thing ("ora et labora et lege") - but not to a god. If you are a slave of your job then you need help. What about to visit a Christmas market - or something else like this - and to have some fun with your wife and children?

Why don't you enjoy yourself and stop trying to get me to celebrate a pagan holiday I don't want to celebrate with Hallmark cards and crappy gifts? I just went back to work after ten years of surgeries and therapy so it can't be my god.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Well I googled that word Sue is in love with.

Sounded "Yiddish" -- not even Hebrew. Why am I not surprised that she would reach to the Jews to justify her lust for pagan holidays

And I have to axe, Sue, who STARTED the thread? Who STARTED complaining about your days? Me, or you?

Why, YOU did. You're the "complainer"

 

[Meriweather]

You observe pagan holidays while rejecting the only Holy Days your Creator has authorized.
.In vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men."

You are comparing ceremonial washing and ignoring the needs of parents to give to the Temple with celebrating the birth/coming of Christ?

Could it be you agree with those in Jesus' time that accused him of gluttony and being a drunkard--of eating and drinking too much? My feeling is that Jesus would be delighted to be with us as we celebrate his coming.

The last thing on Christian minds during days of Advent and Christmas is any pagan God or pagan celebration. Christ is front and center in our homes, and therefore in both minds and hearts. Many times in the Bible we are told to rejoice and be glad, and here you are trying to compare our celebration of Christmas to ignoring the needs of parents and the poor. These are the days the old and the poor are especially remembered, brought into celebrations and joyful days.

 

[Meriweather]

Who STARTED complaining about your days?

And what was in Sue's heart? One thread for all those who love Christmas and for those who attack or have issues with Christmas so that these sentiments to not overflow into other discussion threads.

It was a grand idea, and I celebrate you coming in and getting into the spirit of this thread.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

You are comparing ceremonial washing and ignoring the needs of parents to give to the Temple with celebrating the birth/coming of Christ?

Could it be you agree with those in Jesus' time that accused him of gluttony and being a drunkard--of eating and drinking too much? My feeling is that Jesus would be delighted to be with us as we celebrate his coming.

The last thing on Christian minds during days of Advent and Christmas is any pagan God or pagan celebration. Christ is front and center in our homes, and therefore in both minds and hearts. Many times in the Bible we are told to rejoice and be glad, and here you are trying to compare our celebration of Christmas to ignoring the needs of parents and the poor. These are the days the old and the poor are especially remembered, brought into celebrations and joyful days.

You are justifying the pagan holidays YOUR church "authorized" as "Christian."

In accepting CATHOLIC TRADITION (Sunday, rejection of God's Holy Days, eating pork), Protestants bow down to your popes.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

And what was in Sue's heart? One thread for all those who love Christmas and for those who attack or have issues with Christmas so that these sentiments to not overflow into other discussion threads.

It was a grand idea, and I celebrate you coming in and getting into the spirit of this thread.

The thread is Sue's " kevetching" about those who don't fall in line with the Catholic tradition of observing Saturnalia/Brumalia "done for god ". Try to keep up

The Brumalia is a winter solstice festival celebrated in the eastern part of the Roman Empire. In Rome there had been the minor holiday of Bruma on November 24, which turned into large scale end of the year festivities in Constantinople and Christianit

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Because they're related, here's what THAT CHURCH says about "Changing TIMES and Laws"

---

The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

The Catholic Church claims that “the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).

 

[Meriweather]

The thread is Sue's " kevetching" about those who don't fall in line with the Catholic tradition of observing Saturnalia/Brumalia "done for god ". Try to keep up

The Brumalia is a winter solstice festival celebrated in the eastern part of the Roman Empire. In Rome there had been the minor holiday of Bruma on November 24, which turned into large scale end of the year festivities in Constantinople and Christianit

Are you aware that different toys and different celebrations for different reasons popped up at the same times in different parts of the world? There need be as few as 23 people gathered together before two have the same birthday. You act as though since my grandfather was born first, my husband had no business celebrating his own birthday, that after all, he is only copying my grandfather.

Saturnalia and Christmas are celebrated for two different reasons. You are not even aware that the Saturnalia celebration became popular after the Christian Christmas became popular!

 

[Meriweather]

You are justifying the pagan holidays YOUR church "authorized" as "Christian."

In accepting CATHOLIC TRADITION (Sunday, rejection of God's Holy Days, eating pork), Protestants bow down to your popes.

You aren't even aware that Catholics, let alone Protestants, do not bow down to popes!

Justifying!? There is never any need to "justify" worship and celebrations of God. Seriously, do you justify every prayer and worship event in your religion? Of course not! No one of any faith does. It flows from the heart.

 

[Meriweather]

eating pork

And...that gets in the way of loving and adoring God? God gathered a people He set apart to follow certain rules. The rule against eating pork is not part of the Noahide covenant governing those not of the tribe set apart.

If you are saying worship and adoration is a higher form of worship and adoration, I will not argue because I have conducted no studies. Jesus taught us that it isn't that goes in through the mouth that makes a difference, because that just exits and goes into the latrine. He taught us monitor what comes out from the heart, that the love and goodness that comes from the heart is pure.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

And...that gets in the way of loving and adoring God?

He said don't do it. Did Adam and Eve love God when they disobeyed

You lust for pork above obedience. You made a dead animal your god

 

[Meriweather]

He said don't do it.

Specifically, who did God tell not to do it? And why?

From what I have heard from most Jews, is that they do not know why they were told not to eat pork, it is simply a matter of obedience. Exercising, practicing obedience is good. Apostolic/Catholic Church tradition is that we are all obligated to gather together for worship every Sunday.

Many non-Catholic denomination do not follow this discipline/obligation because they are not as tied to Apostolic traditions as Catholics. They have their own Lutheran, Calvin, etc. traditions that differ from those of Catholic Christians, and possibly their own disciplines.

Non-Catholic disciplines seem to be lighter than Catholic disciplines, which are in turn lighter than Jewish disciplines. The reason I most often hear of why people give up disciplines is to focus on something they consider of greater importance.

One might say we don't focus on pork, we focus on God, and pork has nothing to do with God. Jews might respond, "We don't focus on pork, we focus on obedience, thereby what we believe is a greater focus on God."

If not eating pork strengthens faith and a relationship with God, then that is what one should do. If pork has no effect on faith or on one's obedience to the Ten Commandments of God and things that are of the heart, it doesn't matter what one eats.

 

[Meriweather]

You lust for pork above obedience. You made a dead animal your god

Hardly.

Isn't it wonderful how we have this thread where people can tell other people what they "truly" believe, who their God "truly" is, and name their lusts for them?

And remain blameless in the eyes of God all because they don't eat pork.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Following Him is not "easy," but these things aren't even hard

What will you do when the going gets rough. You are being tested NOW.

If obedience in small matters is hard for you, you will melt like snow in 80 degree weather.

I DONT CARE how you live your life. I really don't. But if you TEACH OTHERS that your Catholic sins are okay with God, I will respond

 

[Vastator]

 

[Meriweather]

Following Him is not "easy," but these things aren't even hard

What will you do when the going gets rough. You are being tested NOW.

If obedience in small matters is hard for you, you will melt like snow in 80 degree weather.

I DONT CARE how you live your life. I really don't. But if you TEACH OTHERS that your Catholic sins are okay with God, I will respond

And it is fine if you wish to count all your dill seeds, insure you use at least an eggshell and a half when washing, not taste pork, etc. Jesus tried to move us away from this to concentrate not what is on the outside of the body or goes into the body, but what comes from the heart. Do not even allow lust to build in the heart, because if we do, it will manifest itself outwardly.

Pride can also be a pitfall. "Oh, God, I thank you that I am not like all those other men who eat pork or collect taxes..."

People are tested by much. Pork isn't one of them. In fact, it, isn't even that much of a temptation. Alcohol, tobacco, sugar...those are temptations.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholic sins

Care to specify?

 

[Vastator]

[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
[3] But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

This story is yet another account of Jesus confronting the Dogma of the Pharisees. Not a green light to eat that which God has commanded otherwise. The Phariseeical handwashing was a man made tradition, observed, and practiced by the Pharisees. Further it is applies specifically to the eating of bread, or matzah. Which is specifically what was being eaten. Context is everything.

Additionally to complete the ritual a recitation is made.

Full Text of Netilat Yadayim
בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה ה׳ אֱלֹהֵינוּ מֶלֶךְ הָעוֹלָם אֲשֶׁר קִדְּשָׁנוּ בְּמִצְוֹתָיו וְצִוָּנוּ עַל נְטִילַת יָדַיִם

Baruch ata Adonai, Eloheinu Melech ha-olam, asher kidshanu b’mitzvotav vitzivanu al n’tilat yadayim.

Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe, who has sanctified us with Your commandments, and commanded us concerning the washing of the hands.

What is interesting here is that there is no such command in the Torah that requires this. This is tradition. Origin of this tradition..?

Origins of Netilat Yadayim​

The tradition of netilat yadayim prior to eating bread originated with the rabbis of the Talmud. It derives from various practices concerning ritual impurity from when the ancient Temple stood in Jerusalem. The priests who performed the temple rituals were given gifts of oil, wine and wheat that could be eaten only after ritual washing. For various reasons, the ancient rabbis extended this practice to all Jews before eating meals. Some sources suggest that the practice was instituted so the Temple’s washing ritual would not be forgotten.

But in the end; this passage is about Jesus confronting the Pharisees for placing their Dogma, on par with the Law, and to basically let it be known that God never said eating with soiled hands would make one impure. It is not however a countermand to any command God has previously laid out.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Do Catholics and their Protestant daughters really understand why Jews refuse to follow the bastardized and umbilical messiah you've created?

God clearly commands the observance of 7 Annual HOLY Days, the Seventh Day Sabbath, refraining from eating unclean foods and so on. The BIBLICAL Jesus was much closer to the teaching of the Jews than the PAGANIZED "Christianity" 95% of the Christian world follows.

Modern paganized "Christianity" has so much to Learn So many "Christians" wonder why the Jews don't follow this Jewish rabbi. I wonder why 95% of "Christianity" rejects the Jesus of the bible

 

[citygator]

Yeah? Wait just a few years. See the thread I posted about a restaurant refusing to serve a Christian ministry. Of course, crickets from the "BAKE THE CAKE!!!" faction...which was most certainly you, yes?

Why should I wait and worry when it’s going just fine now?