Zone1 It's December. Non-Believers, Put Your Kvetching Here:

[Meriweather]

Your scripture, you tell me.

Luke's Gospel mentions the conception taking place in the sixth month (Adar), which would be February/March. Sukkot would be late September/early October, which is only six or seven months later. Tradition had the conception date as March 25, which again, tradition says is also the date Jesus was crucified that year. Once it became popular to celebrate birthdays, nine months after March 25 is December 25.

That is New Testament scripture. I was wondering if you had different information?

 

[Indeependent]

Luke's Gospel mentions the conception taking place in the sixth month (Adar), which would be February/March. Sukkot would be late September/early October, which is only six or seven months later. Tradition had the conception date as March 25, which again, tradition says is also the date Jesus was crucified that year. Once it became popular to celebrate birthdays, nine months after March 25 is December 25.

That is New Testament scripture. I was wondering if you had different information?

The premature birth was meant to cause confusion so that baby Jesus would survive.

Read the entire NT, not just selected verses.

 

[Meriweather]

The premature birth was meant to cause confusion so that baby Jesus would survive.

Where does it say Jesus was born prematurely, or that his birth was meant to cause confusion? Both are news to me.

 

[Indeependent]

Where does it say Jesus was born prematurely, or that his birth was meant to cause confusion? Both are news to me.

I am making assumptions based on the fact that his conception and birthday seem to cover a 3 month period.
Jews do that kind of lawyer stuff.

 

[Meriweather]

I am making assumptions based on the fact that his conception and birthday seem to cover a 3 month period.
Jews do that kind of lawyer stuff.

I am not seeing that. After the conception, Mary went to stay with her Cousin Elizabeth for about three months. She returned home. Joseph learned she was pregnant, thought about divorce, but instead took her as his wife. She was heavy with child on the journey to Bethlehem several months later. How do you see only a three month period? Even as a lawyer?

 

[Indeependent]

I am not seeing that. After the conception, Mary went to stay with her Cousin Elizabeth for about three months. She returned home. Joseph learned she was pregnant, thought about divorce, but instead took her as his wife. She was heavy with child on the journey to Bethlehem several months later. How do you see only a three month period? Even as a lawyer?

Which Gospel has the birth around the holiday of Sukkot?
There’s only 4 of them?

 

[Meriweather]

Which Gospel has the birth around the holiday of Sukkot?
There’s only 4 of them?

None of them do. That is why I was wondering about your reference to it in post #24.

The Annunciation (the angel's visit to Mary) is in only one of the four Gospels, the Gospel of Luke.

 

[Indeependent]

None of them do. That is why I was wondering about your reference to it in post #24.

The Annunciation (the angel's visit to Mary) is in only one of the four Gospels, the Gospel of Luke.

Then read it from Chapter 1, verse 1!

 

[Meriweather]

Then read it from Chapter 1, verse 1!

Luke Chapter 1-25 is about John the Baptist. John's father, Zechariah, a priest, was chosen to enter the sanctuary to burn incense. There, an angel appeared to him and said that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a son that they should name John.

When the angel appeared to Mary, he gave her the news that Elizabeth was in her sixth month. When Mary visited Elizabeth the baby (John) in Elizabeth's womb is recorded as leaping for joy. That visit would put John's birth before Sukkot, but not Jesus' birth.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

All the complaining about how Jesus was born in March, the Christmas tree is pagan and idolatry, half our traditions came from Yule and Solstice....whatever makes you feel better. I'm convinced you do this because 11 months of the year you all hate on Christianity, so then feel guilty taking part in the celebrations in December. You reconcile this by telling yourself it's "not really Christian".

Here's a little tip from Christians: celebrate it or not, we don't care. We don't generally go to Christmas events and grill people as to whether they're REALLY celebrating the Birth of Christ or just partaking in general merry-making. It's fine. Either way. It's fine.

But how about refrain from the REALLY impolite act of telling religious believers that the way they celebrate their holiday is wrong. Or if you can't refrain, kindly start doing that to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Wiccans, etc too. We can't wait to see how THAT goes.

But if you really CANNOT refrain: just put all the usual December kvetching here. Also, all USMB members, when they start the kvetching in other threads, just refer them to this one. The general unbelievers December complaint thread.

That's what a DEBATE FORUM is all about. If you don't like the little flock telling you honoring God with pagan Roman festivals is wrong, tough. This is a FREE SPEECH debate forum.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what a DEBATE FORUM is all about. If you don't like the little flock telling you honoring God with pagan Roman festivals is wrong, tough. This is a FREE SPEECH debate forum.

YOU think it's wrong. Our consciences are not condemned. You know what the Bible says about that right?

But go ahead, kvetch away

 

[strollingbones]

happy winter solstice!

 

[zaangalewa]

I don't celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving,

Poor guy.

I have usually always worked on holidays to earn a living for my family.

What is your profession? Slave?

I don't care how other people celebrate unless they try to force me to do it also.

In the middle ages for example 1/3rd of a year had been holy days - for everyone. So why do you live in fear of Christmas and Thanksgiving? Absurde.

Yous guys can go through the motions of religious and non-religious observances it bothers me not..

Sorry - but it looks like that "work" became your god. We Christians made work to an important thing ("ora et labora et lege") - but not to a god. If you are a slave of your job then you need help. What about to visit a Christmas market - or something else like this - and to have some fun with your wife and children?

 

[citygator]

All the complaining about how Jesus was born in March, the Christmas tree is pagan and idolatry, half our traditions came from Yule and Solstice....whatever makes you feel better. I'm convinced you do this because 11 months of the year you all hate on Christianity, so then feel guilty taking part in the celebrations in December. You reconcile this by telling yourself it's "not really Christian".

Here's a little tip from Christians: celebrate it or not, we don't care. We don't generally go to Christmas events and grill people as to whether they're REALLY celebrating the Birth of Christ or just partaking in general merry-making. It's fine. Either way. It's fine.

But how about refrain from the REALLY impolite act of telling religious believers that the way they celebrate their holiday is wrong. Or if you can't refrain, kindly start doing that to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Wiccans, etc too. We can't wait to see how THAT goes.

But if you really CANNOT refrain: just put all the usual December kvetching here. Also, all USMB members, when they start the kvetching in other threads, just refer them to this one. The general unbelievers December complaint thread.

Since we arbitrarily picked a date I’d prefer 1/25 as Christmas. Just doesn’t get cold early enough anymore. Extra shopping days. Two months of Christmas lights. No downside.

 

[citygator]

I’ve been alive for a few decades and I can tell you that you have to go looking for a problem to find with how Christmas is treated. The traditions are everywhere. It’s in all non-Christians faces and almost none of them complain unless you try and make them observe some religious aspect when they shouldn’t have to.

 

[sparky]

But go ahead, kvetch away

pagan ham anyone?

~S~

 

[SweetSue92]

I’ve been alive for a few decades and I can tell you that you have to go looking for a problem to find with how Christmas is treated. The traditions are everywhere. It’s in all non-Christians faces and almost none of them complain unless you try and make them observe some religious aspect when they shouldn’t have to.

Yeah? Wait just a few years. See the thread I posted about a restaurant refusing to serve a Christian ministry. Of course, crickets from the "BAKE THE CAKE!!!" faction...which was most certainly you, yes?

 

[zaangalewa]

Just like teh Charlie Brown Christmas!

"
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

2(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)

3And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David

5To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

6And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

7And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

8And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

9And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

15And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

16And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

17And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.

18And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.

19But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.

20And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

21And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

22And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23(As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord

24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

33And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

34And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

35(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

36And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;

37And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

38And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

39And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

41Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

42And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

43And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

44But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

45And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.

46And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

50And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

51And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

52And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

Luke chapter 2 KJV (King James Version)

Luke chapter 2 KJV (King James Version)

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

-----


-----
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
And all went to be taxed, one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; because he was of the house and lineage of David. To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel of the Lord said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
... But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
-----


-----

 

[sparky]

And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

well that certainly became tradition......

~S~

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I

YOU think it's wrong. Our consciences are not condemned. You know what the Bible says about that right?

But go ahead, kvetch away

Have no idea what that silly term means. "Kve . "

I do know you twist the scriptures to your own destruction.

You observe pagan holidays while rejecting the only Holy Days your Creator has authorized.
.In vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men."

You were brought up in certain traditions. You've done all these things all your life. They are a part of you.

At some be point, you heard the Word. You believed.

You are the seed that fell on the not so fertile soil. You reached a certain point, but are comfortable with your traditions. You bought the lie that God is okay with these pagan days because you "do them to worship Him"

This is as far as you want to go when Christ said you must be willing to GIVE UP EVERYTHING to truly FOLLOW HIM. But as the younger generation says, "you do you.'

That's fine. Just don't spread your idolatry among young Christians actually searching to follow Christ. Jesus actually asks more of you than stopping here. But you worry "what will my friends and family think if I tell them I don't follow the world's holidays because I'm all in it for my Lord now?"