"Israel Made the Desert Bloom" is a Myth, They Stole the Land from Farmers Who Were Already There for Hundreds of Years

[Grau]

While you support Islamic genocide against the Jews since 1948, or earlier.

What "Islamic genocide"?

In 1948, there were about 650,000 - 700,000 Jews in Palestine / Israel.

Today, there are about 7.2 Million Jews in Israel / Palestine.

In your desperation for a rebuttal, you only showed that you know nothing about genocide.

 

[rosends]

What "Islamic genocide"?

In 1948, there were about 650,000 - 700,000 Jews in Palestine / Israel.

Today, there are about 7.2 Million Jews in Israel / Palestine.

In your desperation for a rebuttal, you only showed that you know nothing about genocide.

but how about in other Muslim countries? Jewish Population in 10 Islamic Countries

the post you are replying to doesn't specifiy "in Israel"

 

[there4eyeM]

Everyone on every side in the Middle East has consistently made the necessary mistakes to keep the area in constant turmoil and fear. A more efficient job could not have been done.

 

[Grau]

Just so you understand R. Weiss' position (and I have researched it quite thoroughly and spoken to a cousin of his to clarify) -- Zionism is fine, but modern (secular/political) Zionism which starts a secular state is the problem. The group believes that once the secular state is dismantled, the messiah will come, install a theocracy and enslave non-Jews. That's their actual full position. Is this the approach you endorse?

I agree that pure Zionism, the desire for a state in which Jews are secure and are represented, is fine.

But, like pure Socialism, Communism, National Socialism etc it has been both distorted and perverted by murderous extremists.

If Neturei Karta, actually does support the enslavement of anyone, that, too is something that I could not condone.

Again, I appreciate your clarification since I participate in this forum as much to learn as to pontificate.

My point, earlier, was to simply show that not all Jews are Zionists.

Thanks,

 

[Grau]

but how about in other Muslim countries? Jewish Population in 10 Islamic Countries

the post you are replying to doesn't specifiy "in Israel"

Briefly put, I don't doubt that in the past Jews in some Muslim countries have been persecuted / victims of genocide.

I assumed that the Poster meant Israel because of the date: 1948.

I can think of few ethnic / religious / national groups that have not both been persecuted and been persecutors.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Everyone on every side in the Middle East has consistently made the necessary mistakes to keep the area in constant turmoil and fear. A more efficient job could not have been done.

I disagree. There are certain intractable problems created by Islamic extremists that prevent any diplomatic solutions, for example the ancient conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims that has been destroying Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Yemen, not the conflicts with Israel, but the media never presents these conflicts as serious.

If you are referring to Israel, all of the turmoil comes from the fact that the Palestinians and other radical elements are committed to the destruction of Israel, so peaceful solutions are impossible.

 

[gipper]

Briefly put, I don't doubt that in the past Jews in some Muslim countries have been persecuted / victims of genocide.

I assumed that the Poster meant Israel because of the date: 1948.

I can think of few ethnic / religious / national groups that have not both been persecuted and been persecutors.

It is most disingenuous of the Zionists to criticize Muslims for committing genocide against Jews in the past, while they are committing genocide against the Palestinians today and for many decades prior.

The irony of Israel’s entire existence and in the years preceding, is they committed pogroms over and over again against the Palestinians. Yet it was the Christian European who committed horrific atrocities against Jews in Europe for centuries.

The conflict is simple to understand. It’s a type of conflict that has been repeated throughout world history. When an invading force tries to impose its will on indigenous peoples, war and atrocities result by both sides.

The Jewish people have suffered greatly for two thousand years, so I see their desire for a homeland of their own. Thinking they can merely steal Palestine because Jews had a homeland there once upon a time, is absurd.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Thinking they can merely steal Palestine

No such place.

 

[rosends]

I agree that pure Zionism, the desire for a state in which Jews are secure and are represented, is fine.

But, like pure Socialism, Communism, National Socialism etc it has been both distorted and perverted by murderous extremists.

If Neturei Karta, actually does support the enslavement of anyone, that, too is something that I could not condone.

Again, I appreciate your clarification since I participate in this forum as much to learn as to pontificate.

My point, earlier, was to simply show that not all Jews are Zionists.

Thanks,

I absolutely agree about not all Jews being Zionists, nor all Zionists being Jews. What is important to differentiate between is the type of Zionism which can be said of each or any group. The Satmar and NK are religious Zionists (evidenced through their daily prayer) so the presentation of them simply as "anti-Zionist" doesn't give an accurate presentation of their position -- they are really pro-Zionism, just a different definition (or application) of Zionism.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Briefly put, I don't doubt that in the past Jews in some Muslim countries have been persecuted / victims of genocide.

I assumed that the Poster meant Israel because of the date: 1948.

I can think of few ethnic / religious / national groups that have not both been persecuted and been persecutors.

Of course, we both know this is nonsense. In 1948, the Arabs threatened another Holocaust a few years after the European Holocaust. Of course the Arabs were defeated, but the intent to commit genocide is clear.

War of Extermination​

An October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit in the Lebanese town of Aley,[9] by Akhbar al-Yom‘s editor Mustafa Amin, contained an interview he held with Arab League secretary-general Azzam. Titled, “A War of Extermination,” the interview read as follows (translated by Efraim Karsh; all ellipses are in the original text):

Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha spoke to me about the horrific war that was in the offing… saying:

“I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine’s Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine … You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.

Azzam's Genocidal Threat

Of the countless threats of violence, made by Arab and Palestinian leaders in the run up to and in the wake of the November 29, 1947 partition resolution, none has resonated more widely than the warning by Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's first

www.meforum.org

What is interesting is that Azzam was known as a relative moderate, but the intense hatred of Jews that had been a core value of Islamic culture since its inception was so great that Azzam, the Secretary General of the Arab League, was forced to threaten genocide.

"From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce."

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

These are the conditions Jews lived under for 1400 years in all Muslim lands, and when the British took over Palestine and recognized that Jews and Muslims had the same rights, the Muslims were outraged and with intensifying violence tried to kill or drive the Jews out of Palestine right up to the genocidal threat made by the Arabs in 1947 and which motivates the current efforts of the Palestinians and other radical elements in the Muslim to try to destroy Israel now.

 

[José]

this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre

My little son TOOMUCHTIME citing Azzam Pasha

Jewish captives in the West Bank in 1948: What happened​

During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, following the declaration of Israel’s independence, the Jordanian Arab Legion occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including the Jewish Quarter of the Old City. This led to dramatic consequences for the Jewish residents in those areas.

Expulsion and imprisonment

• Forced expulsion: Around 1,500 Jews living in the Old City of Jerusalem were expelled by Jordanian forces. Many were displaced, and some were taken as prisoners of war, especially members of Jewish defense groups like the Haganah.

• Prisoners of war: Captured Jewish fighters were held in Jordanian prisons. Many were later released through prisoner exchanges or diplomatic arrangements.

 

[José]

JOSÉ PUNISHING HIS LITTLE SON TOOMUCHTIME FOR OPPORTUNISTICALLY USING AZZAM PASHA'S WARTIME RETHORIC TO JUSTIFY THE IMPOSITION OF A JEWISH SUPREMACIST STATE ON THE NATIVE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE.

 

[Grau]

"' toomuchtime but toolittletruth"

I disagree. There are certain intractable problems created by Islamic extremists that prevent any diplomatic solutions, for example the ancient conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims that has been destroying Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Yemen, not the conflicts with Israel, but the media never presents these conflicts as serious.

If you are referring to Israel, all of the turmoil comes from the fact that the Palestinians and other radical elements are committed to the destruction of Israel, so peaceful solutions are impossible.

If nothing else, Israel's gaggle of genocidal Zionist shills are consistent in their dishonesty and inability to support their Hasbara scripts.

While there are, indeed, many Israelis and Jews around the world who do want peace, Israel's ruling right wing Zionists neither want peace nor do they have any incentive to make peace when AIPAC and similar right wing Israeli lobbies are able to extort countless $ Trillions from America regardless of Israel's crimes, atrocities and violations of International Law.

The "Greater Israel" Settlements scheme is solid proof that the Israeli government does not want peace.(1)

Next, of course Palestine's native residents are resisting over 80 years of foreign Zionist genocide, land theft and criminal expansionism.

In spite of that, the Israeli created Hamas has made it clear that it is willing to abide by the same UN Resolutions # 242 and # 338 (2) that Israel violates with impunity.

Therefore, the following statement is yet another falsehood in a sea of Zionist lies and deceptions.

the Palestinians and other radical elements are committed to the destruction of Israel

(1). "Israel Does Not Want Peace"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-does-not-want-peace-1.5253291

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise." CONTINUED


(2).“Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders”

Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders

Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’

www.theguardian.com

EXCERPT “Hamas has unveiled a new political programme softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied by Israel in the six-day war of 1967.

The new document states the Islamist movement it is not seeking war with the Jewish people – only with Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.

The new document also insists that Hamas is a not a revolutionary force that seeks to intervene in other countries, a commitment that is likely to be welcomed by other states such as Egypt.” CONTINUED

 

[rosends]

"' toomuchtime but toolittletruth"





If nothing else, Israel's gaggle of genocidal Zionist shills are consistent in their dishonesty and inability to support their Hasbara scripts.

While there are, indeed, many Israelis and Jews around the world who do want peace, Israel's ruling right wing Zionists neither want peace nor do they have any incentive to make peace when AIPAC and similar right wing Israeli lobbies are able to extort countless $ Trillions from America regardless of Israel's crimes, atrocities and violations of International Law.

The "Greater Israel" Settlements scheme is solid proof that the Israeli government does not want peace.(1)

Next, of course Palestine's native residents are resisting over 80 years of foreign Zionist genocide, land theft and criminal expansionism.

In spite of that, the Israeli created Hamas has made it clear that it is willing to abide by the same UN Resolutions # 242 and # 338 (2) that Israel violates with impunity.

Therefore, the following statement is yet another falsehood in a sea of Zionist lies and deceptions.






(1). "Israel Does Not Want Peace"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-does-not-want-peace-1.5253291

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise." CONTINUED


(2).“Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders”

Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders

Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’

www.theguardian.com

EXCERPT “Hamas has unveiled a new political programme softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied by Israel in the six-day war of 1967.

The new document states the Islamist movement it is not seeking war with the Jewish people – only with Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.

The new document also insists that Hamas is a not a revolutionary force that seeks to intervene in other countries, a commitment that is likely to be welcomed by other states such as Egypt.” CONTINUED

Are you familiar with this image?

do you see why it explicitly proves one of your statements wrong?

 

[toomuchtime_]

"' toomuchtime but toolittletruth"





If nothing else, Israel's gaggle of genocidal Zionist shills are consistent in their dishonesty and inability to support their Hasbara scripts.

While there are, indeed, many Israelis and Jews around the world who do want peace, Israel's ruling right wing Zionists neither want peace nor do they have any incentive to make peace when AIPAC and similar right wing Israeli lobbies are able to extort countless $ Trillions from America regardless of Israel's crimes, atrocities and violations of International Law.

The "Greater Israel" Settlements scheme is solid proof that the Israeli government does not want peace.(1)

Next, of course Palestine's native residents are resisting over 80 years of foreign Zionist genocide, land theft and criminal expansionism.

In spite of that, the Israeli created Hamas has made it clear that it is willing to abide by the same UN Resolutions # 242 and # 338 (2) that Israel violates with impunity.

Therefore, the following statement is yet another falsehood in a sea of Zionist lies and deceptions.






(1). "Israel Does Not Want Peace"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-does-not-want-peace-1.5253291

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise." CONTINUED


(2).“Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders”

Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders

Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’

www.theguardian.com

EXCERPT “Hamas has unveiled a new political programme softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied by Israel in the six-day war of 1967.

The new document states the Islamist movement it is not seeking war with the Jewish people – only with Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.

The new document also insists that Hamas is a not a revolutionary force that seeks to intervene in other countries, a commitment that is likely to be welcomed by other states such as Egypt.” CONTINUED

You are the king of cut and paste anti Israeli propaganda, but rarely tell the truth. The 2017 Hamas document is a supplement to the 1988 Charter and not a replacement for it, and it states clearly, as you have pointed out, that Hamas is still at war with Zionism, meaning Israel, so it is in no way an offer of peace as you well know.

More importantly, all the information we have indicates Hamas' pledge to continue its war against Israel until Israel is destroyed is fully supported by the so called Palestinians, and the sentiment of that pledge, if not all the violent actions of the Palestinians, is shared by the vast majority of Muslims, thus making peace with the Palestinians impossible for the foreseeable future. All of this hatred of Israel is based on nothing but an ideological conceit by Muslims since the 7th century that Jews must be held to be inferior to Muslims and suffer the humiliation of abiding by separate laws and special taxes to press the point of Muslim superiority. This and this alone makes peace with the so called Palestinians impossible.

 

[there4eyeM]

I disagree. There are certain intractable problems created by Islamic extremists that prevent any diplomatic solutions, for example the ancient conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims that has been destroying Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Yemen, not the conflicts with Israel, but the media never presents these conflicts as serious.

If you are referring to Israel, all of the turmoil comes from the fact that the Palestinians and other radical elements are committed to the destruction of Israel, so peaceful solutions are impossible.

The post mentioned "every side". Israel is included, not specified. All those involved, every nation and group, have done their worst.

 

[Stryder50]

Briefly put, I don't doubt that in the past Jews in some Muslim countries have been persecuted / victims of genocide.

I assumed that the Poster meant Israel because of the date: 1948.

I can think of few ethnic / religious / national groups that have not both been persecuted and been persecutors.

The 1948 "Arab-Israel" war not only saw thousands of non-Jews leave "Israel"/near Levant, but also saw thousands of Jews flee Muslim dominate nations to avoid pogroms of injury, death, and asset confiscation.

Israel is the spear point of Islamic Jihad that began @ 1400 years ago when Muhammad carried a sword and lead his followers in conquest to spread Islam out of Arabia and to the rest of the world. "Converting" those who would, enslaving/killing those who would not. This has been the agenda and Dogma of Islam ever since.
....
Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him and his father) reported that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said:

"I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, establish prayer, and pay Zakah; if they do so, they protect their blood and properties from me, except through the right of Islam; and their reckoning is with Allah."

[Authentic hadith] - [Narrated by Bukhari & Muslim] - [Sahih Bukhari - 25]

Explanation
The Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) informs that Allah commanded him to fight the polytheists until they testify that no deity is truly worthy of worship except Allah alone without any partner and that Muhammad (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) is His Messenger and act upon this testimony by observing the five prayers every day and night and paying the obligatory Zakah to those who are entitled to receive it. If they do these things, Islam protects their lives and properties, and it, thus, becomes unlawful to kill them unless they commit a crime or felony that makes them worthy of being killed in compliance with the rulings of Islam. Then, on the Day of Judgment, Allah Almighty will be in charge of their reckoning as He knows their innermost thoughts.

Benefit from the Hadith
1. External aspects are what count in rulings, whereas the intentions are judged by Allah.
2. The importance of calling to Tawhīd (monotheism) and the fact that it is the first thing to start with in Da‘wah (calling to Allah).
3. This Hadīth does not imply forcing the polytheists to embrace Islam; rather, they have the choice either to enter Islam or pay Jizyah (protection tax). However, if they insist on preventing the call to Islam, then, the only option is to fight them in compliance with the rulings of Islam
....

Hadith: I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, establish prayer, and pay Zakah - Encyclopedia of Translated Prophetic Hadiths

Hadith: I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, establish prayer, and pay Zakah - Encyclopedia of Translated Prophetic Hadiths

hadeethenc.com

 

[Shusha]

Nazi Trained and armed Zionist terrorist gangs

foreign Zionist terrorist gangs

pampered and parasitic Zionists

Zionist bots

most ignorant of hate filled and genocidal Zionist

snarky and brainwashed Zionist bots

gaggle of bigoted and brainwashed Zionist shills to get even more desperate and nastier.

rabid right wing Zionist

hate filled of Zionists

Nazi armed and trained Zionist terrorist gangs

militant, foreign, Nazi trained and armed Zionists.

gaggle of genocidal Zionist shills are consistent in their dishonesty

This ^ is a collection of your statements (just from the last few pages of this thread). You use "Zionist" as a slur, almost always pairing it with derogatory or dehumanizing language. And yet ...

I agree that pure Zionism, the desire for a state in which Jews are secure and are represented, is fine.

There you are. You are a Zionist in the same way that I am a Zionist. And indeed the way the vast majority of Jews are Zionists (I won't go as far as to say "all" but near enough).

ethical, rational and educated Jews do not

You say this with some frequency. There are two kinds of Jews in your world. There are the ethical, rational, educated kind which you label "Jews". And there are the evil kind, which you label "Zionists".

It is just a term you use to mean "those Jews you perceive to be evil".

 

[gipper]

"' toomuchtime but toolittletruth"





If nothing else, Israel's gaggle of genocidal Zionist shills are consistent in their dishonesty and inability to support their Hasbara scripts.

.

The new document also insists that Hamas is a not a revolutionary force that seeks to intervene in other countries, a commitment that is likely to be welcomed by other states such as Egypt.” CONTINUED

You might find this guy’s opinion on the conflict in Gaza interesting. He believes Yahay Sinwar did 10/7 knowing full well Bibi would respond as he has. Sinwar sacrificed his own people to expose to the world the true nature of Israel. He claims Sinwar has won.

Go to 1:05 mark.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The post mentioned "every side". Israel is included, not specified. All those involved, every nation and group, have done their worst.

Again, I disagree. From the early 1920's to today, Israel has consistently tried to live in peace with the Arabs, despite centuries of oppression and persecution in Muslim lands, but the Arabs, with few exceptions, have consistently refused to live in peace with Jews. If you trace the history, you will see it has always initiated violence and with only a few exceptions, refused to make peace.