Is it time to legalize pot and reduce the death rate of tobacco and alcohol?

[GreatestIam]

Portugal is a failed country! Do legalization advocates propose using Portugal as a model!

If democrats use Greece as a financial model, I guess so, Portugal could well be a social model.

Look up the history of pot in California and note the gain when it changed it's possession laws. Quite an eye opener that.

Note also Alaska. Illegal pot and domestic violence was high due to alcohol.
They legalized pot and domestic violence went way down.
The alcohol lobby managed to get the law reversed back to illegal and domestic violence went back up.

A bit of research can open eyes.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

While I agree that pot should be legal I don't however agree that it will reduce alcohol or tobacco related deaths.

Anyone who would rather smoke weed than drink already does. Pot is so ubiquitous that anyone who wants it can get it. The only real reason not to smoke weed is because you don't like to.

Personally I don't like weed even getting away from the sucking smoke aspect with a vaporizer. I just don't care for that particular high. Nothing will make me smoke pot over having a glass of bourbon on the rocks.

Tobacco and weed aren't even synonymous so i don't get that comparison.

My background is marketing. Think of what Pepsi and Coke do. They produce new products just to gain more shelf space and thus sell more products.

Any and all drug products added to the available market will automatically reduce the consumption of the others.

I agree that few of this generation will change their habits but with legalization comes education and our next generations will make more informed choices based on harm and that is what will increase the sales of less harmful drugs.

Regards
DL

But how do you know? I for example said I would probably enjoy a fat blunt every now and again, probably at gatherings but I would not stop buying my booze and smokes just because weed happened to become legal.

I know from my marketing experience and from the fact that if we can keep the pushers away from our young developing minds, that those better minds will make more intelligent choices thanks to education.

Some years ago, I sat in on a police presentation to a class of children. On the issue of street pushers, a child asked the police where this street pushing was going on and the cop gave the exact location. After the presentation, I, with a WTF attitude, asked hims why he would do such a stupid thing. The answer, kids on dope are less trouble than kids who are drunk.

I also know of many instances where kids on dope were stopped for traffic violation and allowed to drive away while I have no knowledge of any drunk being given the same leeway.

Regards
DL

 

[Katzndogz]

How about Germany as a model? they have legalized whores, not sure about the dope though.

That's failed too but for very different reasons. There's nothing at all wrong with legalized prostitution. It's some bizarre belief that legalized prostitution will somehow better the lives of prostitutes that is disgusting. Liberals pass crazy laws in all sincerity that they are doing the right thing, pat themselves on the back, pour another glass of Chardonnay and toast their own intelligence.

Even in Germany, prostitution has not helped German's legalized prostitution brought more exploitation than emancipation to women - National Human Rights | Examiner.com

This is what happened with banning DDT in Africa. The liberal envrionmentalists went on their own cheering committee while the people died of malaria. Then the idiot libs recommended sleep nets to preserve the species of malaria carrying mosquitoes.

Hmm so you think giving prostitutes a safer environment to work their trade isn't making their situation better? I don't mean to derail the thread but I am curious, I would think the average working girl is better off in Germany instead of working the streets here illegally.

Some whores work out of legal and well maintained brothels, but most don't. That has been the situation in every country that has legalized prostitution so far. If you want a comparison, a high end call girl working illegally here is much better off than a low price brothel in Germany. The working girls are largely immigrant girls brought there from Eastern Europe.

Men might see some kind of benefit because they have the option of shelling out the price charged in a legal brothel with overhead and all, or a low cost street walker. But the women, nah. This is one of those situations for which there is no good answer. What happens though is that if legalization did happen, then everyone "who cares" can just close their eyes and pretend that the same problems with prostitution no longer exist. Women will still get beaten up by pimps, they will still get diseases, they will still be exploted only no one will care! Everythng was solved by legalizing prostitution.

 

[GreatestIam]

It is part of the specious claim that marijuana is superior, everyone should smoke it because if everyone does, it will surely be legal.

Superior, no.

Safer than alcohol and tobacco, yes.

Regards
DL

Safer than alcohol I can see, safer than tobacco how? you can smoke 12 cigs in a row and not get inebriated, some people get faded off half a joint.

There is your answer.

What has more tars and dangerous chemicals? 1/2 a joint or 12 cigarettes.

What is more addictive? Tobacco.

What gives more bang for the buck with little or no harm? Pot

In my province alone, tobacco is blamed for 50,000 deaths per year.
Pot. 0.

Regards
DL

 

[Montrovant]

That's failed too but for very different reasons. There's nothing at all wrong with legalized prostitution. It's some bizarre belief that legalized prostitution will somehow better the lives of prostitutes that is disgusting. Liberals pass crazy laws in all sincerity that they are doing the right thing, pat themselves on the back, pour another glass of Chardonnay and toast their own intelligence.

Even in Germany, prostitution has not helped German's legalized prostitution brought more exploitation than emancipation to women - National Human Rights | Examiner.com

This is what happened with banning DDT in Africa. The liberal envrionmentalists went on their own cheering committee while the people died of malaria. Then the idiot libs recommended sleep nets to preserve the species of malaria carrying mosquitoes.

Hmm so you think giving prostitutes a safer environment to work their trade isn't making their situation better? I don't mean to derail the thread but I am curious, I would think the average working girl is better off in Germany instead of working the streets here illegally.

Some whores work out of legal and well maintained brothels, but most don't. That has been the situation in every country that has legalized prostitution so far. If you want a comparison, a high end call girl working illegally here is much better off than a low price brothel in Germany. The working girls are largely immigrant girls brought there from Eastern Europe.

Men might see some kind of benefit because they have the option of shelling out the price charged in a legal brothel with overhead and all, or a low cost street walker. But the women, nah. This is one of those situations for which there is no good answer. What happens though is that if legalization did happen, then everyone "who cares" can just close their eyes and pretend that the same problems with prostitution no longer exist. Women will still get beaten up by pimps, they will still get diseases, they will still be exploted only no one will care! Everythng was solved by legalizing prostitution.

Legalization, be it of drugs or prostitution, will not magically erase all of the criminal element. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. However, I think the idea is that it can quickly reduce it; the competition from legal vendors and the ability of consumers to avoid the dangers of illegal buying should put a crimp in the illegal trade. How strongly restricted the sales are also plays a part.

Of course, for many the argument isn't one of societal benefits so much as whether government should be restricting adults from these things in the first place. In the case of prostitution, in particular, I can't think of another action or product that is completely legal to give away for free but illegal if money is involved.

 

[hjmick]

The question is wrong. It should be:

Is it time to re-legalize pot?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Should it be legal? Yes. There has been lots of research done on cannabis since the 1960's when they tested it out on military personnel.

There's also the support of places like Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society who say that it helps with pain management, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, appetite stimulation as well as is not physically addictive, and doesn't seem to cause the body much harm.

People who smoke cigarettes only? 21 times more likely to die than someone who doesn't smoke at all from lung cancer.

People who smoke only cannabis moderately (less that 15 joints/day)? 0.93 to 0.75 percent as likely to die from lung cancer as someone who doesn't smoke.

Besides, the legal alternatives like K2 have been shown to do significant damage to the body.

And............never mind the taxes you can charge on the legal sales. Besides, then the DEA could go after the real drug dealers of coke, heroin, and meth, all drugs that are much worse physically and psychologically than cannabis ever thought about being.

 

[GreatestIam]

The question is wrong. It should be:

Is it time to re-legalize pot?

And all other drugs that cause less damage than alcohol and tobacco.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Should it be legal? Yes. There has been lots of research done on cannabis since the 1960's when they tested it out on military personnel.

There's also the support of places like Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society who say that it helps with pain management, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, appetite stimulation as well as is not physically addictive, and doesn't seem to cause the body much harm.

People who smoke cigarettes only? 21 times more likely to die than someone who doesn't smoke at all from lung cancer.

People who smoke only cannabis moderately (less that 15 joints/day)? 0.93 to 0.75 percent as likely to die from lung cancer as someone who doesn't smoke.

Besides, the legal alternatives like K2 have been shown to do significant damage to the body.

And............never mind the taxes you can charge on the legal sales. Besides, then the DEA could go after the real drug dealers of coke, heroin, and meth, all drugs that are much worse physically and psychologically than cannabis ever thought about being.

If you have read those reports then you will know that addiction research has been promoting legalization of coke and other drugs for almost as long as they have been promoting pot.

If we are going to accept the logic for legalizing pot then we should for all drugs.

Regards
DL

 

[ABikerSailor]

Should it be legal? Yes. There has been lots of research done on cannabis since the 1960's when they tested it out on military personnel.

There's also the support of places like Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society who say that it helps with pain management, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, appetite stimulation as well as is not physically addictive, and doesn't seem to cause the body much harm.

People who smoke cigarettes only? 21 times more likely to die than someone who doesn't smoke at all from lung cancer.

People who smoke only cannabis moderately (less that 15 joints/day)? 0.93 to 0.75 percent as likely to die from lung cancer as someone who doesn't smoke.

Besides, the legal alternatives like K2 have been shown to do significant damage to the body.

And............never mind the taxes you can charge on the legal sales. Besides, then the DEA could go after the real drug dealers of coke, heroin, and meth, all drugs that are much worse physically and psychologically than cannabis ever thought about being.

If you have read those reports then you will know that addiction research has been promoting legalization of coke and other drugs for almost as long as they have been promoting pot.

If we are going to accept the logic for legalizing pot then we should for all drugs.

Regards
DL

Cocaine has been shown to be physically addictive to the body.

Cannabis isn't.

Try again.

 

[High_Gravity]

Should it be legal? Yes. There has been lots of research done on cannabis since the 1960's when they tested it out on military personnel.

There's also the support of places like Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society who say that it helps with pain management, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, appetite stimulation as well as is not physically addictive, and doesn't seem to cause the body much harm.

People who smoke cigarettes only? 21 times more likely to die than someone who doesn't smoke at all from lung cancer.

People who smoke only cannabis moderately (less that 15 joints/day)? 0.93 to 0.75 percent as likely to die from lung cancer as someone who doesn't smoke.

Besides, the legal alternatives like K2 have been shown to do significant damage to the body.

And............never mind the taxes you can charge on the legal sales. Besides, then the DEA could go after the real drug dealers of coke, heroin, and meth, all drugs that are much worse physically and psychologically than cannabis ever thought about being.

If you have read those reports then you will know that addiction research has been promoting legalization of coke and other drugs for almost as long as they have been promoting pot.

If we are going to accept the logic for legalizing pot then we should for all drugs.

Regards
DL

Cocaine has been shown to be physically addictive to the body.

Cannabis isn't.

Try again.

Marijuana is way safer than Cocaine imo.

 

[KevinWestern]

Should it be legal? Yes. There has been lots of research done on cannabis since the 1960's when they tested it out on military personnel.

There's also the support of places like Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society who say that it helps with pain management, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, appetite stimulation as well as is not physically addictive, and doesn't seem to cause the body much harm.

People who smoke cigarettes only? 21 times more likely to die than someone who doesn't smoke at all from lung cancer.

People who smoke only cannabis moderately (less that 15 joints/day)? 0.93 to 0.75 percent as likely to die from lung cancer as someone who doesn't smoke.

Besides, the legal alternatives like K2 have been shown to do significant damage to the body.

And............never mind the taxes you can charge on the legal sales. Besides, then the DEA could go after the real drug dealers of coke, heroin, and meth, all drugs that are much worse physically and psychologically than cannabis ever thought about being.

Totally agree. My stance has always been: what justification is there for spending billions policing cannabis, and losing billions in potential tax revenue when it's a drug that is drastically less harmful to the body and society as a whole than some of the already legal drugs like alcohol? What's the government protecting me from exactly - some complacent and relaxed high people? I dish out money from my paycheck for this? Not much bang for my buck if you ask me. Every Republican should be pro-legalization.

The benefit of legalization is three fold:

1.) Less waste in our judicial system
2.) Additional tax revenue and jobs.
3.) Reduction of power for cartels and street gangs.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

I used to be against drug legalization but no more. Drug use is self limiting. Users tend to die young. A cop friend pointed that out to me. He noticed that most deaths among young adults was drug related. It's a way to humanely eliminate the drug user problem. Not the drug problem, but the drug user problem.

You should ask your "cop friend" how he feels about the following:

(Excerpt)

The high rate of suicide among law enforcement officers is policing’s dirty little secret. Not only do police officers have higher rates of alcoholism, divorce, and drug abuse, not only do they have life expectancies ten years less than the average person; they also kill themselves at higher rates than the average American.

Police Officers Have Higher Rates Of Alcoholism | Law Enforcement Today

(Close)

 

[High_Gravity]

Should it be legal? Yes. There has been lots of research done on cannabis since the 1960's when they tested it out on military personnel.

There's also the support of places like Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society who say that it helps with pain management, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, appetite stimulation as well as is not physically addictive, and doesn't seem to cause the body much harm.

People who smoke cigarettes only? 21 times more likely to die than someone who doesn't smoke at all from lung cancer.

People who smoke only cannabis moderately (less that 15 joints/day)? 0.93 to 0.75 percent as likely to die from lung cancer as someone who doesn't smoke.

Besides, the legal alternatives like K2 have been shown to do significant damage to the body.

And............never mind the taxes you can charge on the legal sales. Besides, then the DEA could go after the real drug dealers of coke, heroin, and meth, all drugs that are much worse physically and psychologically than cannabis ever thought about being.

Totally agree. My stance has always been: what justification is there for spending billions policing cannabis, and losing billions in potential tax revenue when it's a drug that is drastically less harmful to the body and society as a whole than some of the already legal drugs like alcohol? What's the government protecting me from exactly - some complacent and relaxed high people? I dish out money from my paycheck for this? Not much bang for my buck if you ask me. Every Republican should be pro-legalization.

The benefit of legalization is three fold:

1.) Less waste in our judicial system
2.) Additional tax revenue and jobs.
3.) Reduction of power for cartels and street gangs.

Legalize the buddha and make prostitution legal too, having the cops troll the streets for whores is also a waste of time.

 

[Katzndogz]

[...]

I used to be against drug legalization but no more. Drug use is self limiting. Users tend to die young. A cop friend pointed that out to me. He noticed that most deaths among young adults was drug related. It's a way to humanely eliminate the drug user problem. Not the drug problem, but the drug user problem.

You should ask your "cop friend" how he feels about the following:

(Excerpt)

The high rate of suicide among law enforcement officers is policing’s dirty little secret. Not only do police officers have higher rates of alcoholism, divorce, and drug abuse, not only do they have life expectancies ten years less than the average person; they also kill themselves at higher rates than the average American.

Police Officers Have Higher Rates Of Alcoholism | Law Enforcement Today

(Close)

And this has to do exactly what with drug deaths? Do suicide rates among cops affect drug deaths among teenagers? You have to explain it because I don't see it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Should it be legal? Yes. There has been lots of research done on cannabis since the 1960's when they tested it out on military personnel.

There's also the support of places like Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society who say that it helps with pain management, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, appetite stimulation as well as is not physically addictive, and doesn't seem to cause the body much harm.

People who smoke cigarettes only? 21 times more likely to die than someone who doesn't smoke at all from lung cancer.

People who smoke only cannabis moderately (less that 15 joints/day)? 0.93 to 0.75 percent as likely to die from lung cancer as someone who doesn't smoke.

Besides, the legal alternatives like K2 have been shown to do significant damage to the body.

And............never mind the taxes you can charge on the legal sales. Besides, then the DEA could go after the real drug dealers of coke, heroin, and meth, all drugs that are much worse physically and psychologically than cannabis ever thought about being.

Totally agree. My stance has always been: what justification is there for spending billions policing cannabis, and losing billions in potential tax revenue when it's a drug that is drastically less harmful to the body and society as a whole than some of the already legal drugs like alcohol? What's the government protecting me from exactly - some complacent and relaxed high people? I dish out money from my paycheck for this? Not much bang for my buck if you ask me. Every Republican should be pro-legalization.

The benefit of legalization is three fold:

1.) Less waste in our judicial system
2.) Additional tax revenue and jobs.
3.) Reduction of power for cartels and street gangs.

Legalize the buddha and make prostitution legal too, having the cops troll the streets for whores is also a waste of time.

If the police really did troll the streets for whores, the jails woud be filled with them. From what I have seen is that the police make arrests in only a few instances. If there is a whore on the street who is obviously sick or shows signs of being beaten she will be arrested. If an area has become so well known for prostitution that no woman can go from place to place without being hassled by would-be johns, the cops will come in and arrest the lot of street walkers. A bar owner might tip off the cops that whores are using his premises to conduct business and driving his ladies away the police will conduct a sting and make arrests.

The police seldom drive around looking for whores to bust. There has to be some kind of complaint first.

 

[High_Gravity]

Totally agree. My stance has always been: what justification is there for spending billions policing cannabis, and losing billions in potential tax revenue when it's a drug that is drastically less harmful to the body and society as a whole than some of the already legal drugs like alcohol? What's the government protecting me from exactly - some complacent and relaxed high people? I dish out money from my paycheck for this? Not much bang for my buck if you ask me. Every Republican should be pro-legalization.

The benefit of legalization is three fold:

1.) Less waste in our judicial system
2.) Additional tax revenue and jobs.
3.) Reduction of power for cartels and street gangs.

Legalize the buddha and make prostitution legal too, having the cops troll the streets for whores is also a waste of time.

If the police really did troll the streets for whores, the jails woud be filled with them. From what I have seen is that the police make arrests in only a few instances. If there is a whore on the street who is obviously sick or shows signs of being beaten she will be arrested. If an area has become so well known for prostitution that no woman can go from place to place without being hassled by would-be johns, the cops will come in and arrest the lot of street walkers. A bar owner might tip off the cops that whores are using his premises to conduct business and driving his ladies away the police will conduct a sting and make arrests.

The police seldom drive around looking for whores to bust. There has to be some kind of complaint first.

Thats all still a waste of time, legalize it and let these women get their whore on in peace.

 

[Katzndogz]

Legalize the buddha and make prostitution legal too, having the cops troll the streets for whores is also a waste of time.

If the police really did troll the streets for whores, the jails woud be filled with them. From what I have seen is that the police make arrests in only a few instances. If there is a whore on the street who is obviously sick or shows signs of being beaten she will be arrested. If an area has become so well known for prostitution that no woman can go from place to place without being hassled by would-be johns, the cops will come in and arrest the lot of street walkers. A bar owner might tip off the cops that whores are using his premises to conduct business and driving his ladies away the police will conduct a sting and make arrests.

The police seldom drive around looking for whores to bust. There has to be some kind of complaint first.

Thats all still a waste of time, legalize it and let these women get their whore on in peace.

Pretty much, since legalization won't have any effect one way or another.

Although, I'm still surprised at how regulation ended the porn industry in Los Angeles.

 

[High_Gravity]

If the police really did troll the streets for whores, the jails woud be filled with them. From what I have seen is that the police make arrests in only a few instances. If there is a whore on the street who is obviously sick or shows signs of being beaten she will be arrested. If an area has become so well known for prostitution that no woman can go from place to place without being hassled by would-be johns, the cops will come in and arrest the lot of street walkers. A bar owner might tip off the cops that whores are using his premises to conduct business and driving his ladies away the police will conduct a sting and make arrests.

The police seldom drive around looking for whores to bust. There has to be some kind of complaint first.

Thats all still a waste of time, legalize it and let these women get their whore on in peace.

Pretty much, since legalization won't have any effect one way or another.

Although, I'm still surprised at how regulation ended the porn industry in Los Angeles.

Ended? are you serious Katz? Adam Glasser is still putting in work in the Valley.

 

[Katzndogz]

Thats all still a waste of time, legalize it and let these women get their whore on in peace.

Pretty much, since legalization won't have any effect one way or another.

Although, I'm still surprised at how regulation ended the porn industry in Los Angeles.

Ended? are you serious Katz? Adam Glasser is still putting in work in the Valley.

Not in Los Angeles. Not anywhere in Los Angeles. Some have left the City for nearby cities, some have left the state thinking that simply leaving the city wasn't good enough if this law goes statewide.

An unintended consequence is that hundreds of people have been hired by Los Angeles to monitor and regulate that now have nothing to do. This new department might be the last to finally drive LA into bankruptcy. Which would be a good thing.

Towards the end of the month, I'm expecting a visit from a major porn producer who is coming here from England to deal with the changes that he's making in production. I will know more after I meet with him. The bulk of his studio is in Vegas so I can't see any major changes for him. Some minor closures perhaps.

This "little" regulation about wearing condoms has morphed into a major bueaucracy.